Lowered car Question.
Discussion
Decided nows a good time to drop my car a bit. so nice kit with 35mm drop springs and shortened shocks (so about 40-40mm drop overall) went on today.
As luck would have it its pissing down, so im being very causious.
Anyways, to the point.
when comparing lowered cars to standard form, which is more likely to brake away without warning?
in standard guise my car would corner on its door handles but wouldnt break away without alot of prior warning and was very easy to counter (it did like to over steer when thrown into corners with a bit of pace).
Now, im taking it easy with it lowered. It feels REALLY grippy in comparison butit just feels like its building up to a big spin.
So my question, Which is more likely to lose it without warning, standard suspension or lowered and stiffer suspension?
As luck would have it its pissing down, so im being very causious.
Anyways, to the point.
when comparing lowered cars to standard form, which is more likely to brake away without warning?
in standard guise my car would corner on its door handles but wouldnt break away without alot of prior warning and was very easy to counter (it did like to over steer when thrown into corners with a bit of pace).
Now, im taking it easy with it lowered. It feels REALLY grippy in comparison butit just feels like its building up to a big spin.
So my question, Which is more likely to lose it without warning, standard suspension or lowered and stiffer suspension?
It depends on all sorts of things. If you had just lowered it keeping the same spring and damper rates, then it probably wouldn't have enough suspension travel to deal with the cornering loads it can develop in which case it would lose traction suddenly as it hits the bump stops. If, as you say you have, you've stiffened it up as well as lowering it, it'll all depend on whether whoever designed the spring and damper rates for your lowering kit were better or worse at their job than the original manufacturer.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 6th October 22:25
Fair point.
The kit is a SuperSport spring kit. 35mm drop progresivly wound springs and 30% uprated shocks, Its on a german car (golf) and supersport are a german manufacturer. After looking at reviews many people in the VW world have said they are very very good hence me going with them. But im jsut curious as to what to expect if i push it to far. Will it just snap, or am i likely to get some prior warning?
The kit is a SuperSport spring kit. 35mm drop progresivly wound springs and 30% uprated shocks, Its on a german car (golf) and supersport are a german manufacturer. After looking at reviews many people in the VW world have said they are very very good hence me going with them. But im jsut curious as to what to expect if i push it to far. Will it just snap, or am i likely to get some prior warning?
You have less suspension travel, so there's more chance of hitting the bump stops which won't be fun. Depending on the suspension layout there's the possibility that caster, camber and toe-in are also adjusted, which can completely change the handling characteristics of the car.
Assuming it's German and TUV approved it won't be lethal, but don't expect the ride to be as nice on our crappy british roads.
Assuming it's German and TUV approved it won't be lethal, but don't expect the ride to be as nice on our crappy british roads.
bumps are definitely felt more, havent bottomed it yet so cant comment on that. the suspension has about 1-1.5 inches or travel before the spring rate ramps up a hell of a lot.
As for castor camber and to etc its all set to how it would be on standard shocks and springs, so its effectely the same configuration but lower and harder.
And yes the kit is TuV approved
As for castor camber and to etc its all set to how it would be on standard shocks and springs, so its effectely the same configuration but lower and harder.
And yes the kit is TuV approved
Lowered suspension = less body roll + a move towards more neg camber on the front, also stiffer dampers (and I'm sure spring) will make it less likely to suddenly break away, the tyre treads are less likely to suddenly lift due to the cornering forces.
Edited by oakdale on Tuesday 6th October 23:29
After 100 miles on this set up i can safely say handling has been improved.
There is still a bit of body roll, enough that when cornering hard the mud flaps (which are about an inch of the ground) are scraping very loudly against the ground.
The car already had lower front and upper rear strut braces so only thing left to do now is ARB's
With regards to anti roll bars am i correct in saying stiffer rear ARB increases over steer and a stiffer front ARB increases understear?
The car currently had a front ARB but no rear so if i was to get a front and rear kit would i notice a significant difference?
Also, the rear wheels are not independant, Instead they are connected by what is effectivly a solid beam with a hub either end.
is there any point in getting a rear ARB with the suspension being that layout or is it going to make the square root of f
k all difference?
And lastly, a reccomendation. If you have a golf and want to go low on a budget then supersport sprint kit is a good way to go. £175 for 30% uprated shortened shocks and 35mm lowering springs (progressivly wound). However be warned 35mm drop kit is NOT 35mm, its more like 60.
at low speeds the cars comfortable and will handle all bumps and pot holes well, throw it into some corners and the improvment is noticable.
There is still a bit of body roll, enough that when cornering hard the mud flaps (which are about an inch of the ground) are scraping very loudly against the ground.
The car already had lower front and upper rear strut braces so only thing left to do now is ARB's
With regards to anti roll bars am i correct in saying stiffer rear ARB increases over steer and a stiffer front ARB increases understear?
The car currently had a front ARB but no rear so if i was to get a front and rear kit would i notice a significant difference?
Also, the rear wheels are not independant, Instead they are connected by what is effectivly a solid beam with a hub either end.
is there any point in getting a rear ARB with the suspension being that layout or is it going to make the square root of f
k all difference?And lastly, a reccomendation. If you have a golf and want to go low on a budget then supersport sprint kit is a good way to go. £175 for 30% uprated shortened shocks and 35mm lowering springs (progressivly wound). However be warned 35mm drop kit is NOT 35mm, its more like 60.
at low speeds the cars comfortable and will handle all bumps and pot holes well, throw it into some corners and the improvment is noticable.
No experience with Golfs, so examples may not be relevant..:
FWD cars with trailing beam cars can benefit from rear ARBs - the Saab NG900 is the same, and picking the right (additional) bar on those makes a helluva difference - flatter cornering attitude, vastly improved traction out of corners (becassue of less roll) and a much more 'together' / responsive drive.
The art is in picking enough just extra stiffness without going too far. The extra roll resistance comes at the price of increasing loads on the outside rear wheel, and that means that lift-off oversteer can become a real problem, especially in transition and on bumpy / wet roads. Go too stiff, and you can end up with hilarious armfuls of oppo required, just to deal with throttle modulation or braking. Much less fun than it sounds.
Roll stiffness increase with 4th power of bar dia, so only small increase can be quite effective (Saab NG900Ts came with a 15mm rear bar already, and taking this up to 18-20mm is a great improvement. 22mm turns it into a dangerous clockwork toy...)
Alternatively, on FWD the way forawrd can be to soften the front end roll stiffness, by reducing teh ARB diameter. You get more roll, but the car will be more forgiving of uneven /imperfect road surfaces (greater compliance). Old Saab 900 T16 owners know all about this route, too. HTH
FWD cars with trailing beam cars can benefit from rear ARBs - the Saab NG900 is the same, and picking the right (additional) bar on those makes a helluva difference - flatter cornering attitude, vastly improved traction out of corners (becassue of less roll) and a much more 'together' / responsive drive.
The art is in picking enough just extra stiffness without going too far. The extra roll resistance comes at the price of increasing loads on the outside rear wheel, and that means that lift-off oversteer can become a real problem, especially in transition and on bumpy / wet roads. Go too stiff, and you can end up with hilarious armfuls of oppo required, just to deal with throttle modulation or braking. Much less fun than it sounds.
Roll stiffness increase with 4th power of bar dia, so only small increase can be quite effective (Saab NG900Ts came with a 15mm rear bar already, and taking this up to 18-20mm is a great improvement. 22mm turns it into a dangerous clockwork toy...)
Alternatively, on FWD the way forawrd can be to soften the front end roll stiffness, by reducing teh ARB diameter. You get more roll, but the car will be more forgiving of uneven /imperfect road surfaces (greater compliance). Old Saab 900 T16 owners know all about this route, too. HTH
oakdale said:
Lowered suspension = less body roll + a move towards more neg camber on the front, also stiffer dampers (and I'm sure spring) will make it much more likely to suddenly break away.
Fixedoakdale said:
the tyre treads are less likely to suddenly lift due to the cornering forces
No they aren't, and that's rarely even the cause of loss of grip anyway.Edited by tristancliffe on Saturday 7th November 16:44
Gassing Station | Suspension, Brakes & Tyres | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff