Just fit winter tyres to the drive wheels?
Discussion
selwonk said:
Winter tyres are not just for snow though, and could be kept on for a good few weeks. It's when it's *not* snowing that I'd be more worried about end to end variance in grip!
We use them from Nov-April there is not much difference to be felt on the road, even when its really cold and the roads are salted/greasy there is not much difference in balance (with good rears, just not winters). And the cars get driven quite quick its not like we are driving on egg shells when on normal road conditions.I wake up to a white, crisp and even winter's morning and happily trot out safe in the knowledge that I've fitted winter tyres to the fronts. It gets me off the drive, down the road and all the way to the start of the main roads into Manchester. The roads are free of snow and simply wet. Traffic is up to normal wet weather speed and somebody pulls out of a side road into my path. Now's the time I'm interested in how mixing winter tyres with all season tyres might affect under- or over-steer.
Edited by selwonk on Friday 26th November 15:43
rallycross said:
selwonk said:
Winter tyres are not just for snow though, and could be kept on for a good few weeks. It's when it's *not* snowing that I'd be more worried about end to end variance in grip!
We use them from Nov-April there is not much difference to be felt on the road, even when its really cold and the roads are salted/greasy there is not much difference in balance (with good rears, just not winters). And the cars get driven quite quick its not like we are driving on egg shells when on normal road conditions.
selwonk said:
I wake up to a white, crisp and even winter's morning and happily trot out safe in the knowledge that I've fitted winter tyres to the fronts. It gets me off the drive, down the road and all the way to the start of the main roads into Manchester. The roads are free of snow and simply wet. Traffic is up to normal wet weather speed and somebody pulls out of a side road into my path. Now's the time I'm interested in how mixing winter tyres with all season tyres might affect under- or over-steer.
If you have ABS, it won't make any difference, other than stopping you quicker than with no winter tyres. Without ABS, if you skid it might get a bit squiffy. But then it'd do that whatever tyres you had on it, and the winters would still stop you quicker.Edited by selwonk on Friday 26th November 15:43
robsti said:
Winter tyres on the front of FWD every winter for the last 20 years with no problems!
these are the kinds of posts people need to pay attention to, not the theoretical ramblings of those who have never driven on winters - in the USA its common practice to change only the drive wheels and while it is better to have all 4, it doesn't mean immediate carnage!As a serious reply to this topic, I ran winter tyres on the front and summer on the back last year with no issues... Adminitedly the FWD car oversteered everywhere, but without them I wouldn't be able to go or stop.
This year I have winter tyres all round and it's obviously much safer this way, but I wouldn't say that having half/half is more dangerous than none at all.
I only post this on here as I presume most readers of this website would have some insight into handling and wouldn't drive flat out in the snow just because they have winter tyres fitted to the drive wheels?!
This year I have winter tyres all round and it's obviously much safer this way, but I wouldn't say that having half/half is more dangerous than none at all.
I only post this on here as I presume most readers of this website would have some insight into handling and wouldn't drive flat out in the snow just because they have winter tyres fitted to the drive wheels?!
GreigM said:
robsti said:
Winter tyres on the front of FWD every winter for the last 20 years with no problems!
these are the kinds of posts people need to pay attention to...If it were a courtroom I think the judge would lean towards the latter.
durbster said:
GreigM said:
robsti said:
Winter tyres on the front of FWD every winter for the last 20 years with no problems!
these are the kinds of posts people need to pay attention to...If it were a courtroom I think the judge would lean towards the latter.
durbster said:
GreigM said:
robsti said:
Winter tyres on the front of FWD every winter for the last 20 years with no problems!
these are the kinds of posts people need to pay attention to...If it were a courtroom I think the judge would lean towards the latter.
durbster said:
GreigM said:
robsti said:
Winter tyres on the front of FWD every winter for the last 20 years with no problems!
these are the kinds of posts people need to pay attention to...If it were a courtroom I think the judge would lean towards the latter.
So does that mean the nonsense expoused by people who dont have any experience of it is more accurate? What rubbish! And where does the 'judge' come into it?
durbster said:
GreigM said:
robsti said:
Winter tyres on the front of FWD every winter for the last 20 years with no problems!
these are the kinds of posts people need to pay attention to...If it were a courtroom I think the judge would lean towards the latter.
As I said above, people are comparing 2 winter tyres to 4 winter tyres, when for the purpose of this topic we must compare 2 winter tyres to no winter tyres.
0<2<4. If 2 is all you can afford then you are still better off than if you had none. It's a compromise, but if the driver is aware of this and uses appropriate common sense they will be fine.
robsti said:
Winter tyres on the front of FWD every winter for the last 20 years with no problems!
Pull up a sand bag....Years ago (late 80s) I couldn't afford winters (and I'm not even sure if they were readily available) so I had a pair of M+S remoulds on some steelies for the front of my Mk1 Golf GTi.
The car was stable and I was able to run rings round those on ordinary tyres when it snowed. Yes, the back would step out if I drove like a nutter (which back then was quite often.....
) or used the emergency oversteer lever. I didn't hit anything and ultimately all the back wheels were for is to keep the arse end of the ground.Time moves on and now I have a full set of winters - not half as much fun......
busta said:
durbster said:
GreigM said:
robsti said:
Winter tyres on the front of FWD every winter for the last 20 years with no problems!
these are the kinds of posts people need to pay attention to...If it were a courtroom I think the judge would lean towards the latter.
As I said above, people are comparing 2 winter tyres to 4 winter tyres, when for the purpose of this topic we must compare 2 winter tyres to no winter tyres.
0<2<4. If 2 is all you can afford then you are still better off than if you had none. It's a compromise, but if the driver is aware of this and uses appropriate common sense they will be fine.
Any serious investigation into an incident where someone had 4 summer tyres wouldn't look at that decision as questionable as it's the accepted "norm". Same with 4 winters (in winter). However mixing the 2 could be considered as a reason for losing control in some circumstances. That then puts you in a weaker position where you may potentially be asked to justify the decision taken to mix summer and winter tyres. And "well it's never been a problem before" isn't any sort of acceptable justification.
I'd sooner avoid that potential argument and either go for 4 winters or stay with summers and accept the limitations of the summer tyres in winter. I wouldn't do something that the car and tyre manufactures advise against because it leaves me open to question.
So in the same breath we will also pursue those who use no name brand tyres in the same vain. There must be thousands of cars out there with good brand name tyres on one axle but some other pile of rubbish on the other or as we often hear 4 different tyres on a car. I'd love to hear of a court case where a driver was punished for the type or quality if tyres s/he had. I can understand if they are illegal. Ultimately, if you exceed the limits of adhesion the vehicle was too fast for the road conditions. The degree of culpability may be debatable but expert tyre witnesses in a road traffic accident? Dangerous driving, wreckless driving, driving without due care and attention focus on the act of driving not your decision to choose one pair of safe and legal tyres over another pair of safe and legal tyres.
edc said:
So in the same breath we will also pursue those who use no name brand tyres in the same vain. There must be thousands of cars out there with good brand name tyres on one axle but some other pile of rubbish on the other or as we often hear 4 different tyres on a car. I'd love to hear of a court case where a driver was punished for the type or quality if tyres s/he had. I can understand if they are illegal. Ultimately, if you exceed the limits of adhesion the vehicle was too fast for the road conditions. The degree of culpability may be debatable but expert tyre witnesses in a road traffic accident? Dangerous driving, wreckless driving, driving without due care and attention focus on the act of driving not your decision to choose one pair of safe and legal tyres over another pair of safe and legal tyres.
If anything this thread shows that it's clear it's not clear if it's a good idea or not. So there is doubt among the public.Now say someone has a similar accident to 10PS where the car gos sideways, a biker hits it and dies (or it in some other way kills a person because it was going sideways).
They will look at reasons that car got in that position. With 4 tyres all of the same style as recommended by tyre companies / car manufacturers there's no room for question there. But if you have mixed summer vs winter it's a decision that could be questioned. Now you may be able to defend against it, or not. I don't know. But why risk finding out.
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