dent/smart repairs
Discussion
You're still trying to argue a negative - that professional, durable SMART repairs can't be achieved. You've not given any logical reason why, and it's not possible to prove a negative without exhaustive evidence, and anyone being prepared to present evidence to the contrary (as several posters on this thread have) deflates the argument anyway.
All the traditional repairers I have met (including the ones I have trained), once they had been properly trained in a decent SMART repair method, using purpose-designed tools and materials (and not just using conventional materials and equipment because they "know blow-ins mate"), agreed SMART repair was a viable, professional repair method (for appropriate bits of damage) and flew in the face of what they'd been told since their apprenticeship was possible.
The largest bodyshop group in the UK - NCRC - is putting out a fleet of SMART repair vans. The VBRA (the professional association for body repairers) is adding a SMART repair council to it's repairer council. The IMI (the sector skills council for body repair) is developing national SMART repair qualifications, and already offers QAA approval of SMART training. It's only dinosaurs in body repair that haven't realised that SMART is viable, absolutely fulfils a market need, and can be done to a high finish and in a manner that lasts.
SMART does require higher skill levels than booth-assisted repairs, in my experience, but that's not the same thing as not being achievable.
SMART repair isn't for every kind of damage, but for those it is suitable for, it achieves an equivalent finish to a booth-assisted repair, much faster, and at a considerably lower price point.
You are right that anyone can set themselves up as a SMART repairer (or indeed a bodyshop, there's no licensing requirement for either) and there are sadly plenty of examples of people taking on work beyond their skill level, or trying to make SMART do repairs it isn't intended for. But there are also plenty of bodyshops turning out substandard, shoddy, or downright dangerous work. Suggesting that getting a bodyshop repair will somehow be automatically superior in finish or durability is just wrong. There are good and bad SMART repairers and good and bad bodyshops. The best thing for a potential customer to do is get recommendations from someone who has used the business in question. Any other advice is utterly meaningless.
All the traditional repairers I have met (including the ones I have trained), once they had been properly trained in a decent SMART repair method, using purpose-designed tools and materials (and not just using conventional materials and equipment because they "know blow-ins mate"), agreed SMART repair was a viable, professional repair method (for appropriate bits of damage) and flew in the face of what they'd been told since their apprenticeship was possible.
The largest bodyshop group in the UK - NCRC - is putting out a fleet of SMART repair vans. The VBRA (the professional association for body repairers) is adding a SMART repair council to it's repairer council. The IMI (the sector skills council for body repair) is developing national SMART repair qualifications, and already offers QAA approval of SMART training. It's only dinosaurs in body repair that haven't realised that SMART is viable, absolutely fulfils a market need, and can be done to a high finish and in a manner that lasts.
SMART does require higher skill levels than booth-assisted repairs, in my experience, but that's not the same thing as not being achievable.
SMART repair isn't for every kind of damage, but for those it is suitable for, it achieves an equivalent finish to a booth-assisted repair, much faster, and at a considerably lower price point.
You are right that anyone can set themselves up as a SMART repairer (or indeed a bodyshop, there's no licensing requirement for either) and there are sadly plenty of examples of people taking on work beyond their skill level, or trying to make SMART do repairs it isn't intended for. But there are also plenty of bodyshops turning out substandard, shoddy, or downright dangerous work. Suggesting that getting a bodyshop repair will somehow be automatically superior in finish or durability is just wrong. There are good and bad SMART repairers and good and bad bodyshops. The best thing for a potential customer to do is get recommendations from someone who has used the business in question. Any other advice is utterly meaningless.
Anatol said:
You're still trying to argue a negative - that professional, durable SMART repairs can't be achieved. You've not given any logical reason why, and it's not possible to prove a negative without exhaustive evidence, and anyone being prepared to present evidence to the contrary (as several posters on this thread have) deflates the argument anyway.
All the traditional repairers I have met (including the ones I have trained), once they had been properly trained in a decent SMART repair method, using purpose-designed tools and materials (and not just using conventional materials and equipment because they "know blow-ins mate"), agreed SMART repair was a viable, professional repair method (for appropriate bits of damage) and flew in the face of what they'd been told since their apprenticeship was possible.
The largest bodyshop group in the UK - NCRC - is putting out a fleet of SMART repair vans. The VBRA (the professional association for body repairers) is adding a SMART repair council to it's repairer council. The IMI (the sector skills council for body repair) is developing national SMART repair qualifications, and already offers QAA approval of SMART training. It's only dinosaurs in body repair that haven't realised that SMART is viable, absolutely fulfils a market need, and can be done to a high finish and in a manner that lasts.
SMART does require higher skill levels than booth-assisted repairs, in my experience, but that's not the same thing as not being achievable.
SMART repair isn't for every kind of damage, but for those it is suitable for, it achieves an equivalent finish to a booth-assisted repair, much faster, and at a considerably lower price point.
You are right that anyone can set themselves up as a SMART repairer (or indeed a bodyshop, there's no licensing requirement for either) and there are sadly plenty of examples of people taking on work beyond their skill level, or trying to make SMART do repairs it isn't intended for. But there are also plenty of bodyshops turning out substandard, shoddy, or downright dangerous work. Suggesting that getting a bodyshop repair will somehow be automatically superior in finish or durability is just wrong. There are good and bad SMART repairers and good and bad bodyshops. The best thing for a potential customer to do is get recommendations from someone who has used the business in question. Any other advice is utterly meaningless.
sorry - but at the end of the day you 'sell' smart repairs so i cannot realistically expect you to say anything that does not defend the 'system'All the traditional repairers I have met (including the ones I have trained), once they had been properly trained in a decent SMART repair method, using purpose-designed tools and materials (and not just using conventional materials and equipment because they "know blow-ins mate"), agreed SMART repair was a viable, professional repair method (for appropriate bits of damage) and flew in the face of what they'd been told since their apprenticeship was possible.
The largest bodyshop group in the UK - NCRC - is putting out a fleet of SMART repair vans. The VBRA (the professional association for body repairers) is adding a SMART repair council to it's repairer council. The IMI (the sector skills council for body repair) is developing national SMART repair qualifications, and already offers QAA approval of SMART training. It's only dinosaurs in body repair that haven't realised that SMART is viable, absolutely fulfils a market need, and can be done to a high finish and in a manner that lasts.
SMART does require higher skill levels than booth-assisted repairs, in my experience, but that's not the same thing as not being achievable.
SMART repair isn't for every kind of damage, but for those it is suitable for, it achieves an equivalent finish to a booth-assisted repair, much faster, and at a considerably lower price point.
You are right that anyone can set themselves up as a SMART repairer (or indeed a bodyshop, there's no licensing requirement for either) and there are sadly plenty of examples of people taking on work beyond their skill level, or trying to make SMART do repairs it isn't intended for. But there are also plenty of bodyshops turning out substandard, shoddy, or downright dangerous work. Suggesting that getting a bodyshop repair will somehow be automatically superior in finish or durability is just wrong. There are good and bad SMART repairers and good and bad bodyshops. The best thing for a potential customer to do is get recommendations from someone who has used the business in question. Any other advice is utterly meaningless.
and you have admitted that anyone can set up and call themselves 'smart' repairers - so how the hell can the public have any faith in the system?
also most of the smart repairers are van/mobile based - so when it goes 'tits up' - you can't even trace them back to business premises?
sorry to be so cynical - there may be good smart repairers out there - you say recommendations?
well the local smart repairer was reasonable but he retired and the new guy was a cowboy (ok no horse) but was trading as chips away local agent!
grand cherokee said:
sorry - but at the end of the day you 'sell' smart repairs so i cannot realistically expect you to say anything that does not defend the 'system'
I also run a bodyshop. Your original post was to suggest that bodyshop repairs are innately superior to SMART. Being a professional with experience of both, I have to challenge that - it's not born out by experience. I am the first to say that SMART is not for every repair - if it was we wouldn't maintain a bodyshop in addition to our SMART repairs!grand cherokee said:
and you have admitted that anyone can set up and call themselves 'smart' repairers - so how the hell can the public have any faith in the system?
Anyone can set themselves up as a mechanic, detailer, massage therapist, and the list goes on. Anyone can set themselves up as a bodyshop. This is not a distinguishing feature of SMART repair. We qualify all our technicians through the traditional routes as well as their SMART repair training. This, and other examples of dedication to professionalism, are available for our customers to check.grand cherokee said:
also most of the smart repairers are van/mobile based - so when it goes 'tits up' - you can't even trace them back to business premises?
Many belong to national networks who manage customer complaints to protect a brand. Still more are members of professional associations and are responsible to them for a customer charter, and more again also have fixed-site premises. Like choosing any tradesperson, you can look for these things to reassure yourself. grand cherokee said:
sorry to be so cynical - there may be good smart repairers out there...
There are, which is why it is at best misleading to advise someone not to use any SMART repairer. The marketplace is a Darwinian environment - repairers who disappoint customers don't stay in business long. grand cherokee said:
also most of the smart repairers are van/mobile based - so when it goes 'tits up' - you can't even trace them back to business premises?
If anybody would be stupid enough to use any mobile trade without obtaining a written quote or business card with a trading address on it (in my case my home address) and the job were to then go 'tits up' I'd say more fool them!I don't go cold calling, blindly knocking on doors in the hopes that I get some work - most work comes from people contacting me, so I am always contactable.
And if people do their homework, get a recommendation and contact a reputable mobile SMART repairer but the job did go 'tits up' in most cases he would want to either put it right himself, at his expense get it re-worked at a bodyshop or offer the money back - to maintain his GOOD reputation!
Most of your views seem to be based upon your idea that all mobile SMART repairers are cowboys turning out sub-standard work and so we're not worth using.
In much the same vain we've all seen 'Watchdog' and 'cowboy builders' putting up dodgy extensions ... but nobody in their right mind would say 'If you need an extension building forget it, cos all builders are cowboys doing sub-standard work.' ... If we need something built we find a good builder.
i would entirely agree with GC on the fact that due to the franchising nature of this sort of business the quality can vary a lot.
there was a wheel refurb chap in the area who recently retired. Until last week we wouldnt recommend anyone as the 2 other we thoughts were rubbish.
but its exactly as Tol says - how is that ANY different to another business? And are you saying all mobile hairdressers are rubbish too? mobile tyre fitters? do you think anyone mobile is crap or is that not your issue?
Seeing as GC quotes it as a plus point for the bodyshop, seems fair to point out that my chap does pretty much everything in this area from Porsche, Bentley, Ferrari, Revere, Lexus, Audi...and a many others......they clearly feel the quality is right.....(I mean trade, not private. private work sucks!)
there was a wheel refurb chap in the area who recently retired. Until last week we wouldnt recommend anyone as the 2 other we thoughts were rubbish.
but its exactly as Tol says - how is that ANY different to another business? And are you saying all mobile hairdressers are rubbish too? mobile tyre fitters? do you think anyone mobile is crap or is that not your issue?
Seeing as GC quotes it as a plus point for the bodyshop, seems fair to point out that my chap does pretty much everything in this area from Porsche, Bentley, Ferrari, Revere, Lexus, Audi...and a many others......they clearly feel the quality is right.....(I mean trade, not private. private work sucks!)
Squiggs said:
mike50001 said:
sorry should have said that really, its a 407 sw
had a quick look an it looks like access to the rear of the panel would be from behind the light, appears to only be one maybe 2 twist locks hold the light in.
the dent id guess only pushed in 2mm or so.
As a ball park figure I would think somewhere between £100 - £120, it may vary slighty regionally, and on the amount of work around v's repairers in your area.had a quick look an it looks like access to the rear of the panel would be from behind the light, appears to only be one maybe 2 twist locks hold the light in.
the dent id guess only pushed in 2mm or so.
retrorider said:
Squiggs said:
mike50001 said:
sorry should have said that really, its a 407 sw
had a quick look an it looks like access to the rear of the panel would be from behind the light, appears to only be one maybe 2 twist locks hold the light in.
the dent id guess only pushed in 2mm or so.
As a ball park figure I would think somewhere between £100 - £120, it may vary slighty regionally, and on the amount of work around v's repairers in your area.had a quick look an it looks like access to the rear of the panel would be from behind the light, appears to only be one maybe 2 twist locks hold the light in.
the dent id guess only pushed in 2mm or so.
If a job is suitable for a mobile SMART repair why go to the inconvenience of having to take it to a bodyshop and be without your car for at the very least a whole day (and usually more) when you can have it done in a matter of hours at your convenience at your home or place of work?
So it's slow and inconvenient v's quick and convenient and the pricing structures of each are not always comparable, but generally damage that is suitable for SMART means that the repair can be kept smaller, will therefore be completed quicker than traditional bodyshop methods and without the 'hidden' overhead costs that naturally occure from owning and running a bodyshop. So in most cases a SMART repair will work out cheaper.
Squiggs said:
retrorider said:
Squiggs said:
mike50001 said:
sorry should have said that really, its a 407 sw
had a quick look an it looks like access to the rear of the panel would be from behind the light, appears to only be one maybe 2 twist locks hold the light in.
the dent id guess only pushed in 2mm or so.
As a ball park figure I would think somewhere between £100 - £120, it may vary slighty regionally, and on the amount of work around v's repairers in your area.had a quick look an it looks like access to the rear of the panel would be from behind the light, appears to only be one maybe 2 twist locks hold the light in.
the dent id guess only pushed in 2mm or so.
If a job is suitable for a mobile SMART repair why go to the inconvenience of having to take it to a bodyshop and be without your car for at the very least a whole day (and usually more) when you can have it done in a matter of hours at your convenience at your home or place of work?
So it's slow and inconvenient v's quick and convenient and the pricing structures of each are not always comparable, but generally damage that is suitable for SMART means that the repair can be kept smaller, will therefore be completed quicker than traditional bodyshop methods and without the 'hidden' overhead costs that naturally occure from owning and running a bodyshop. So in most cases a SMART repair will work out cheaper.
Edited by retrorider on Saturday 18th June 19:38
grand cherokee said:
just don't expect a 'smart' repair to 'last'
they are a quick fix solution - if you want the job done correctly go to a body shop - you will pay more but at least the job will be done correctly
funnily enough 'smart' repairers are so smart they can spray in damp conditions/high temps/dusty atmospheres etc? - all on your drive!
yet the poor old body shop needs a special 'booth' to do the work? - tells you the quality of smart repairs imo
The booths are there to keep COSHH happy they don't guarantee a superior finish, a run is a run in or out of the oven and a lot of booths have filters long overdue a change so contamination is not uncommon, go into any bodyshop and you'll see a painter de-nibbing and polishing. All painters would love to get a gun finish on every job, it's extremely satisfying to go back in to the oven after it's baked off to see it flawless but it's very rare.they are a quick fix solution - if you want the job done correctly go to a body shop - you will pay more but at least the job will be done correctly
funnily enough 'smart' repairers are so smart they can spray in damp conditions/high temps/dusty atmospheres etc? - all on your drive!
yet the poor old body shop needs a special 'booth' to do the work? - tells you the quality of smart repairs imo
Edited by grand cherokee on Tuesday 14th June 11:08
There are good smart repairers out there who take pride in their work, you have just as much chance of finding a duff bodyshop with a booth as you do in finding a duff smart repairer, just go with a recommendation is my advice, whether it's a mobile outfit or full bodyshop.
Lastly take not an ounce of notice of anyone shouting about working on exotics or high end marques. I can't imagine for a second a plumber would assure future customers of a good standard of workmanship just because he fixed one of the bogs in Buckingham Palace. The vast majority of cars are made of metal or ali and painted in 2k whether it's list price was 7k or 70k and all repairers should be working to the best possible standard on any car regardless of the badge, in my experience some of the most discerning of my customers have distinctly average wheels, they're just very fussy about them because they worked very hard to get them.
dentmanwarren said:
The booths are there to keep COSHH happy they don't guarantee a superior finish, a run is a run in or out of the oven and a lot of booths have filters long overdue a change so contamination is not uncommon, go into any bodyshop and you'll see a painter de-nibbing and polishing. All painters would love to get a gun finish on every job, it's extremely satisfying to go back in to the oven after it's baked off to see it flawless but it's very rare.
There are good smart repairers out there who take pride in their work, you have just as much chance of finding a duff bodyshop with a booth as you do in finding a duff smart repairer, just go with a recommendation is my advice, whether it's a mobile outfit or full bodyshop.
Lastly take not an ounce of notice of anyone shouting about working on exotics or high end marques. I can't imagine for a second a plumber would assure future customers of a good standard of workmanship just because he fixed one of the bogs in Buckingham Palace. The vast majority of cars are made of metal or ali and painted in 2k whether it's list price was 7k or 70k and all repairers should be working to the best possible standard on any car regardless of the badge, in my experience some of the most discerning of my customers have distinctly average wheels, they're just very fussy about them because they worked very hard to get them.
Great post ... the only thing I can't agree with is that you are maybe suggesting a 7k car and a 70k car have the same finish.There are good smart repairers out there who take pride in their work, you have just as much chance of finding a duff bodyshop with a booth as you do in finding a duff smart repairer, just go with a recommendation is my advice, whether it's a mobile outfit or full bodyshop.
Lastly take not an ounce of notice of anyone shouting about working on exotics or high end marques. I can't imagine for a second a plumber would assure future customers of a good standard of workmanship just because he fixed one of the bogs in Buckingham Palace. The vast majority of cars are made of metal or ali and painted in 2k whether it's list price was 7k or 70k and all repairers should be working to the best possible standard on any car regardless of the badge, in my experience some of the most discerning of my customers have distinctly average wheels, they're just very fussy about them because they worked very hard to get them.
I can honestly say a Mazda will have more orange peel/texture in its 'factory finish' than an Aston as it rolls out the factory gates.
Edited by Squiggs on Tuesday 21st June 23:38
Popped on here to post up a job we have going and good to see you're still fighting your corner Anatol.
If you don't get a mention in the Queen's honours for services to the defence of doing paint repairs on someone's driveway there is no justice in the world. You are a bedrock upon which this little bit of Pistonheads rests
A couple of points I picked up on scanning through:
Anyway, just thought I'd add my penny's worth. The first quote in particular made me think you're facing an uphill battle Anatol !
As ever, keep smiling
Henry
If you don't get a mention in the Queen's honours for services to the defence of doing paint repairs on someone's driveway there is no justice in the world. You are a bedrock upon which this little bit of Pistonheads rests
A couple of points I picked up on scanning through:
Squiggs said:
But it could be a case that the light needs removing to avoid any damage whilst sanding (and/or filling - depending on how deep the scratch is)... which in turn may involve the removal of some interior trim.
If this was the case, personally speaking I don't generally remove lights/interior trims - mainly because as a 'man with only a van' I don't have enough room to carry every required tool to carry out every type of job (I only just have enough room to fit in all the gear required to carry out a decent paint repair lol)
And on 1 week old cars as well !! Nothing like a bit of masking up of easily removable parts to set off a top quality job. You need a decent socket set £150 at Halfords will get you one with all the bits you need. A set of Screwdrivers £20. A set of metric Spanners up to 19mm £30 and possibly a set of star & standard drive allen keys. Total space required not much more than a lunch box. I suspect the rear light cluster is probably 4 10mm bolts ?If this was the case, personally speaking I don't generally remove lights/interior trims - mainly because as a 'man with only a van' I don't have enough room to carry every required tool to carry out every type of job (I only just have enough room to fit in all the gear required to carry out a decent paint repair lol)
Squiggs said:
I don't go cold calling, blindly knocking on doors in the hopes that I get some work
Surely that's the whole benefit of buying a franchise. Your franchise operator runs a central contact point & handles the advertising then feeds work out geographically.dentmanwarren said:
The booths are there to keep COSHH happy they don't guarantee a superior finish, a run is a run in or out of the oven and a lot of booths have filters long overdue a change so contamination is not uncommon....
To be fair the booth is there to provide a temperature stable environment and to reduce the chances of airborne contamination. As you say there are poorly maintained booths but on someone's driveway you have no chance at all. It is also there to help protect the worker in conjunction with other equipment found in a well equipped bodyshop.Anyway, just thought I'd add my penny's worth. The first quote in particular made me think you're facing an uphill battle Anatol !
As ever, keep smiling
Henry
Henry-F said:
To be fair the booth is there to provide a temperature stable environment and to reduce the chances of airborne contamination. As you say there are poorly maintained booths but on someone's driveway you have no chance at all.
Even the best booth, properly maintained, has no chance of eliminating contamination. It will reduce it. Anyone who has ever actually worked in a bodyshop knows that jobs come out of the booth needing denibbing and polishing no matter what the maintenance schedule. Fresh paper suits, 3M dirt trap on the walls and floor, Stat-gun blowdowns between every coat - some nibs still happen.Fortunately, nibs don't prevent a professional job being completed. They are removed and the area compounded. This is a fact of all body repairs.
An uncontrolled environment repair will need more nibs removing, which is why smaller repairs are viable, the time taken to denib and polish large area repairs would make them commercially non-viable (as well as outside HSE rules). I've seen some work done in dusty garages by the very patient who then hand blocked and buffed the entire car which rivalled the work off the very top production lines. They tend to be painters' pet projects and labours of love though - the number of hours involved are too high to be good business.
Booths in the UK are primarily designed to protect the workers - which is why they MUST run at negative pressure. In the USA, the booths are primarily about minimising contamination, which is why they tend to run at positive pressure.
The "Won't someone *please* think of the dust nibs..." cry tends to be a sign of actually not having much direct experience of body repair. No offence, Henry. :-) (still smiling)
Anatol said:
Even the best booth, properly maintained, has no chance of eliminating contamination. It will reduce it. Anyone who has ever actually worked in a bodyshop knows that jobs come out of the booth needing denibbing and polishing no matter what the maintenance schedule. Fresh paper suits, 3M dirt trap on the walls and floor, Stat-gun blowdowns between every coat - some nibs still happen.
Fortunately, nibs don't prevent a professional job being completed. They are removed and the area compounded. This is a fact of all body repairs.
An uncontrolled environment repair will need more nibs removing, which is why smaller repairs are viable, the time taken to denib and polish large area repairs would make them commercially non-viable (as well as outside HSE rules). I've seen some work done in dusty garages by the very patient who then hand blocked and buffed the entire car which rivalled the work off the very top production lines. They tend to be painters' pet projects and labours of love though - the number of hours involved are too high to be good business.
Booths in the UK are primarily designed to protect the workers - which is why they MUST run at negative pressure. In the USA, the booths are primarily about minimising contamination, which is why they tend to run at positive pressure.
The "Won't someone *please* think of the dust nibs..." cry tends to be a sign of actually not having much direct experience of body repair. No offence, Henry. :-) (still smiling)
Which is exactly what I said. "reduce the chances of airborne contamination", as well as to provide a temperature stable environment. I am fully aware of what is involved in de-nibbing paintwork. Fortunately, nibs don't prevent a professional job being completed. They are removed and the area compounded. This is a fact of all body repairs.
An uncontrolled environment repair will need more nibs removing, which is why smaller repairs are viable, the time taken to denib and polish large area repairs would make them commercially non-viable (as well as outside HSE rules). I've seen some work done in dusty garages by the very patient who then hand blocked and buffed the entire car which rivalled the work off the very top production lines. They tend to be painters' pet projects and labours of love though - the number of hours involved are too high to be good business.
Booths in the UK are primarily designed to protect the workers - which is why they MUST run at negative pressure. In the USA, the booths are primarily about minimising contamination, which is why they tend to run at positive pressure.
The "Won't someone *please* think of the dust nibs..." cry tends to be a sign of actually not having much direct experience of body repair. No offence, Henry. :-) (still smiling)
I suppose criticising someone for not having the necessary tools (or desire) to remove a rear light cluster from a car is a sign of knowing very little about new masking techniques and these days all the best jobs are carried out with handles, lights, glazing trim, badges, mirrors and so on left on the car.
I just had a chuckle when I saw your formidable efforts still don't seem to have swung popular opinion as regards driveway paint repairs.
No one ever did take me up on my offer of twice the normal fee to repair and paint a 911 bumper on our drive in order that my opinions might be swayed. In the end we paid the usual £200 to have it removed from the car, prepared, painted in the booth and then re-fitted. And a lovely job it was too.
Henry
Henry-F said:
No one ever did take me up on my offer of twice the normal fee to repair and paint a 911 bumper on our drive in order that my opinions might be swayed. In the end we paid the usual £200 to have it removed from the car, prepared, painted in the booth and then re-fitted. And a lovely job it was too.
Henry
Great price BTW - what shop do you use? If it's close enough I may be able to pass some work on.
Squiggs said:
Henry-F said:
No one ever did take me up on my offer of twice the normal fee to repair and paint a 911 bumper on our drive in order that my opinions might be swayed. In the end we paid the usual £200 to have it removed from the car, prepared, painted in the booth and then re-fitted. And a lovely job it was too.
Henry
Great price BTW - what shop do you use? If it's close enough I may be able to pass some work on.
I'm relatively well versed in paint related matters and what can and cant be done. I am also aware of what damage has been underneath the painted on a driveway repairs we have had to correct in the bodyshop over the years.
When I made the offer there were a series of photographs for a well known national paint repair on your driveway company which were examples of what they could do.
In light of the above I felt able to make a judgement.
I would have been happy to provide extremely high definition images of the damage in order that someone could have avoided wasting any time. No requests for photographs were made. I could only deduce from the lack of any response that these types of repairs don't stand the close scrutiny of a professional. If someone offered me twice my normal fee for a job I would be round like a shot. Especially if that person was an opinion leader who up to that point opposed my methods.
Henry
When I made the offer there were a series of photographs for a well known national paint repair on your driveway company which were examples of what they could do.
In light of the above I felt able to make a judgement.
I would have been happy to provide extremely high definition images of the damage in order that someone could have avoided wasting any time. No requests for photographs were made. I could only deduce from the lack of any response that these types of repairs don't stand the close scrutiny of a professional. If someone offered me twice my normal fee for a job I would be round like a shot. Especially if that person was an opinion leader who up to that point opposed my methods.
Henry
Henry-F said:
I'm relatively well versed in paint related matters and what can and cant be done.
Henry
Hmmmm .... it doesn't sound like that to me - it sounds more like you're baiting in order to put SMART repairers down.Henry
If you are relatively well versed in paint related matters and what can and cant be done then you should be able to accept that by using a recommended (good) technician appropriate damage can be corrected to high standard using SMART techniques.
Squiggs said:
Hmmmm .... it doesn't sound like that to me - it sounds more like you're baiting in order to put SMART repairers down.
If you are relatively well versed in paint related matters and what can and cant be done then you should be able to accept that by using a recommended (good) technician appropriate damage can be corrected to high standard using SMART techniques.
Why should I? Especially when I read your statement about not removing lights, trim etc. It doesn't exactly endear your methods to me I'm afraid.If you are relatively well versed in paint related matters and what can and cant be done then you should be able to accept that by using a recommended (good) technician appropriate damage can be corrected to high standard using SMART techniques.
Henry.
paintman said:
He's just baiting Anatol.
Pointless exercise as he bites every time.
Not *every* time. There was this time in 2005... ;-)Pointless exercise as he bites every time.
Personally i think the fact that no-one took Henry up on his challenge may be to do with the perception that his opinion on the subject isn't actually ever going to change, regardless of evidence. Trying to convince someone of something they have already decided against is a genuine pointless exercise. See his posts above - he knows nibs happen in pro booths and can be corrected just fine. But on a small repair in an uncontrolled environment, the fact that it will get nibs just means it will never be acceptable. Very inconsistent thinking. And of course, the argument from ignorance ("I've never seen this done successfully so it must be impossible...") is a rhetorical device, not actually persuasive. All it really establishes is the ignorance of the speaker.
From what I read, he wanted someone to spray a full bumper in an uncontrolled environment too. This would be illegal, and leave both him and the sprayer liable to a fine of unlimited size. Hardly surprising that no-one took it on, and he should be glad that they didn't. It was also pointed out to him at the time that the people he was inviting to his 'challenge' couldn't agree to it without being in breach of contracts they had already signed, which kept him very safe...
Edited by Anatol on Monday 4th July 10:07
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