Paint resistance to chipping
Discussion
I had the front of my 993 painted to tidy up the paintchips.
Now just 5 months later it is worse than it was and chippped to buggery.
What did my paintshop do wrong. Was it use of cheap materials, preparation not baked correctly...?
It will not be going back to the same paintshop, I just want to make sure that I can make sure it doesn't happen again.
Now just 5 months later it is worse than it was and chippped to buggery.
What did my paintshop do wrong. Was it use of cheap materials, preparation not baked correctly...?
It will not be going back to the same paintshop, I just want to make sure that I can make sure it doesn't happen again.
Could be the paintshop or could be just the fact they have to use waterbased paints now.
We are seeing cars that are only 3-4 weeks old with stone chipping so manufacturers are havingthe same problems.
Some of the more upmarket manufacturers are using a tougher paint that can 'repair' itself from slight scratches. These ceramic clearcoats are becoming more popular and are good but take a lot more work when carrying out paint correction work.
kev
Its becoming more and more common place, The laws on the content of the paint and clearcoat is getting tougher and tougher.
Waterbased basecoats and reduced cyanide(hardener) content of the clearcoat is the way forward.
Its good for personal protection,in the bodyshops, and "will" save lives in the long term, downside its bad for the front of your car.
Expect them to be reduced even further in 2009, thats hopefully the last measures the government put in place with regard to re-finishing.
Waterbased basecoats and reduced cyanide(hardener) content of the clearcoat is the way forward.
Its good for personal protection,in the bodyshops, and "will" save lives in the long term, downside its bad for the front of your car.
Expect them to be reduced even further in 2009, thats hopefully the last measures the government put in place with regard to re-finishing.
It's a common misconception that the PPD directive affects the isocyanates in clearcoat/hardener, because they are toxic.
This is simply not the case. The directives require reduced VOC levels - solvent content. As solvent content decreases, actually the amount of hardener required goes up, not down, so expect isocyanate use to increase, not decrease, as a result of the directive.
Iso remains a COSSH substance, so strict exposure controls remain required.
VOC compliant iso-cured clearcoats are intrinsically no worse or better than older non-compliant clears. And it is the clearcoat, not the paint, which affects chip resistance. The "waterbased paint isn't as tough" rumour is nonsense from a scientific perspective...
Tol
This is simply not the case. The directives require reduced VOC levels - solvent content. As solvent content decreases, actually the amount of hardener required goes up, not down, so expect isocyanate use to increase, not decrease, as a result of the directive.
Iso remains a COSSH substance, so strict exposure controls remain required.
VOC compliant iso-cured clearcoats are intrinsically no worse or better than older non-compliant clears. And it is the clearcoat, not the paint, which affects chip resistance. The "waterbased paint isn't as tough" rumour is nonsense from a scientific perspective...
Tol
Anatol said:
VOC compliant iso-cured clearcoats are intrinsically no worse or better than older non-compliant clears. And it is the clearcoat, not the paint, which affects chip resistance. The "waterbased paint isn't as tough" rumour is nonsense from a scientific perspective...
Tol
Tol,Tol
From a Scientific perspective, thats true but as you should have seen in the business you are in, the amount of new vehicles picking up more stone chips is on the increase substantially.
K
PJ S said:
Softer clearcoat/lacquer being used to reduce costs.
Paint layer is no different from previous era solvent based ones.
Nicely put. It's nothing to do with waterborne, or VOC-reducing legislation. It's manufacturers' choices in clearcoat changing. While it would have been pretty rare before, it's becoming more common that repairs have higher durability than original finish.Paint layer is no different from previous era solvent based ones.
Tol
whats you windscreen and headlams like?
Clean your windscreenand try running a soft leaded pencil over it.
you will me amazed atthe damage.
Also get a hardness test done
http://www.paint-test-equipment.co.uk/Pencil%20Har...
There is an adhesion test but it is distructive.
Clean your windscreenand try running a soft leaded pencil over it.
you will me amazed atthe damage.Also get a hardness test done
http://www.paint-test-equipment.co.uk/Pencil%20Har...
There is an adhesion test but it is distructive.
Below is a comment & my reply on a thread on CS in regard to exactly the same point.
" "Ade get the colour and top coats done in two pack most paint shops can still supply if you ask,i didnt unfortunatley as didnt realise just how cr@p this stuff is,thats the water based colour coat,basically the clear coat is two pack and seals the waterbased colour coat,im finding that it chips very easy ie because the colour is not as tough as two pack even though top coat is it still chips very easy,ive just had front end my car protected with plastic clear film in hopes that it protects it but im not holding my breath"
My reply............
"With all due respect Steve, the VAST majority of the problems owners are experiencing with the water borne system is through operator error.
Either due to the inability or refusal of the paintshop to adapt traditional techniques to new technology.
EXACTLY the same scenario occured when 2k became the industry standard 25+ years ago & a misinformed public spread scare stories of sheets of paint coming off cars, etc, etc, etc; the same occured within the industry when 'Wet on Wet' primers came on stream 20+ years ago, the same occured in the industry when HVLP became the way to go 15+ years ago.
If you are seriously having problems, then I suggest you contact the manufacturer of the paint on your car & see what they say. Best wishes, Al"
Hope this helps?
I think Tol's answer holds as much sway as well - it's probably a combination of the two.
Tol.......how do you find the 'new' system? I find it perfectly useable & giving equal results.
Al.
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" "Ade get the colour and top coats done in two pack most paint shops can still supply if you ask,i didnt unfortunatley as didnt realise just how cr@p this stuff is,thats the water based colour coat,basically the clear coat is two pack and seals the waterbased colour coat,im finding that it chips very easy ie because the colour is not as tough as two pack even though top coat is it still chips very easy,ive just had front end my car protected with plastic clear film in hopes that it protects it but im not holding my breath"
My reply............
"With all due respect Steve, the VAST majority of the problems owners are experiencing with the water borne system is through operator error.
Either due to the inability or refusal of the paintshop to adapt traditional techniques to new technology.
EXACTLY the same scenario occured when 2k became the industry standard 25+ years ago & a misinformed public spread scare stories of sheets of paint coming off cars, etc, etc, etc; the same occured within the industry when 'Wet on Wet' primers came on stream 20+ years ago, the same occured in the industry when HVLP became the way to go 15+ years ago.
If you are seriously having problems, then I suggest you contact the manufacturer of the paint on your car & see what they say. Best wishes, Al"
Hope this helps?
I think Tol's answer holds as much sway as well - it's probably a combination of the two.
Tol.......how do you find the 'new' system? I find it perfectly useable & giving equal results.
Al.
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