Discussion
Twice in 2 days my car has been hit. Both times the offending deposit has been removed within a couple of hours, both times a mark has been left on the paintwork.
First of all, how can I remove the mark? I've tried Autoglym SRP with no joy!
Secondly, I've never noticed these type of marks on any car I've owned before. I've had my current car only a few months so perhaps I'm being a bit paranoid but is getting a bit annoying now! Why is this happening??
First of all, how can I remove the mark? I've tried Autoglym SRP with no joy!
Secondly, I've never noticed these type of marks on any car I've owned before. I've had my current car only a few months so perhaps I'm being a bit paranoid but is getting a bit annoying now! Why is this happening??
Different paint type for a start, and different birds dropping their "curries" - not all birds' poo is damaging, as I've left messes on mine with no protection layer, for over a week, and not a bit of staining.
That's on a Honda with reasonably soft paint.
Nothing you can do aside from having a microfiber cloth and quick detailer in the car at all times, and get it off as soon as you see it.
By the sounds of it, you need to hit it with something more abrasive, or use a firmer foam applicator with the SRP to give it more bite - the green one here is probably sufficient, but may require the orange depending on the paint type and how deeply it has stained.
http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/lake-count...
That's on a Honda with reasonably soft paint.
Nothing you can do aside from having a microfiber cloth and quick detailer in the car at all times, and get it off as soon as you see it.
By the sounds of it, you need to hit it with something more abrasive, or use a firmer foam applicator with the SRP to give it more bite - the green one here is probably sufficient, but may require the orange depending on the paint type and how deeply it has stained.
http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/lake-count...
Edited by PJ S on Thursday 13th May 00:25
belleair302 said:
hev you applied a couple of coats of wax and / or sealed your car with a decent synthetic sealant? This will help protect your paintwork.....as will NOT parking under trees!!!
Agreed, this will help, but water based paints have a lot to answer for. If you think that paint is meant to last on a car for its lifetime and a bird dropping only on the car for an hour or less can make a mark only truly removable by a machine polish, that’s not so good eh? Plus, manufacturers paint is always going to be tougher and harder than anything that you can buy off the shelf, save a roll of sticky back clear plastic! This never seemed to be a problem with solvent based paints back in the old days…
autoglym said:
Agreed, this will help, but water based paints have a lot to answer for. If you think that paint is meant to last on a car for its lifetime and a bird dropping only on the car for an hour or less can make a mark only truly removable by a machine polish, that’s not so good eh? Plus, manufacturers paint is always going to be tougher and harder than anything that you can buy off the shelf, save a roll of sticky back clear plastic!
This never seemed to be a problem with solvent based paints back in the old days…
What is water based paint clear coated with?This never seemed to be a problem with solvent based paints back in the old days…
TallPaul said:
autoglym said:
water based paints have a lot to answer for.
What is water based paint clear coated with?The bird mess will be actually contacting a 2k, isocyanate-cured acrylic clearcoat. Whether VOC-borne or one of the few waterborne clearcoats, it ends up as the same plastic. The paint skin underneath isn't really relevant.
An awful lot of blame is heaped on WB technology that has nothing to do with it.
All the water is, is an alternative solvent for transporting the product during application. The "WB is inferior" cry is a myth, usually perpetrated by finishers who are innately scared of change, bitter that the switch to WB came with some increased materials costs, or just anti EU regulation of their industry.
Edited by Anatol on Friday 18th June 21:59
zetec said:
Twice in 2 days my car has been hit. Both times the offending deposit has been removed within a couple of hours, both times a mark has been left on the paintwork.
First of all, how can I remove the mark? I've tried Autoglym SRP with no joy!
Secondly, I've never noticed these type of marks on any car I've owned before. I've had my current car only a few months so perhaps I'm being a bit paranoid but is getting a bit annoying now! Why is this happening??
I was always led to believe that it was the time of the year that made a difference - when the red berries are out on the bushes the birds eat these which then makes their poo very acidic, hence the paint damage. Dunno if thats true though.First of all, how can I remove the mark? I've tried Autoglym SRP with no joy!
Secondly, I've never noticed these type of marks on any car I've owned before. I've had my current car only a few months so perhaps I'm being a bit paranoid but is getting a bit annoying now! Why is this happening??
I had the roof of my car painted last year at a local bodyshop and if a bird poo sits on it for more than 10-20 minutes it marks the paint (which I then need to get the bodyshop to buff off with fareclla or whatever it's called). The bonnet, which hasn't been painted since leaving the factory, can take bird poo for hours without marking.
When I first saw the thread title, I thought this was going to turn out to be yet another variation on the old 'what do you do when a bird s
ts on your car' joke!
One important thing I've found (reinforced yesterday when I came out to find a big turd on my rear windscreen) is to get some clean water onto it as soon as you can. This softens it and reduces the effort required to shift it, and the risk of damage to the paint. It also dilutes any acid thus reducing its harmful qualities.
ts on your car' joke!One important thing I've found (reinforced yesterday when I came out to find a big turd on my rear windscreen) is to get some clean water onto it as soon as you can. This softens it and reduces the effort required to shift it, and the risk of damage to the paint. It also dilutes any acid thus reducing its harmful qualities.
in future try to use some decent sealant and/or wax which will delay the time it takes to damage the paint and just clean it off asap really. as said, don't park under trees etc but that's easier said than done. i try to do the same here but still end up with tree sap on the car, luckily no bird crap though.
Anatol said:
TallPaul said:
autoglym said:
water based paints have a lot to answer for.
What is water based paint clear coated with?The bird mess will be actually contacting a 2k, isocyanate-cured acrylic clearcoat. Whether VOC-borne or one of the few waterborne clearcoats, it ends up as the same plastic. The paint skin underneath isn't really relevant.
An awful lot of blame is heaped on WB technology that has nothing to do with it.
All the water is, is an alternative solvent for transporting the product during application. The "WB is inferior" cry is a myth, usually perpetrated by finishers who are innately scared of change, bitter that the switch to WB came with some increased materials costs, or just anti EU regulation of their industry.
Edited by Anatol on Friday 18th June 21:59
TallPaul said:
I think you have to be realistic, factory paint is almost always more hardwearing than refinished paint, regardless of what was used.
I'm interested to know why you think that... Particularly when refinishers use the manufacturer approval-specified refinish materials, I can't really think of any reason in terms of the science involved why the end result wouldn't be both chemically identical, and probably a much higher (and hence protective) build than the factory finish. We're even using catalytic curing (and the use of it is growing) so even the curing methods in use by refinishers are becoming the same as factories...
The main issue, even if refinishing with identical materials to OEM is the bake temperature. New bare shells are baked to around 150C, whereas refinishing ovens only bake to around 60C. The reasons are the dangers associated with exposing volatile fluids (fuels, etc) to extremes of temperature, warping/deforming of any plastics (interior & exterior) plus the "Health & Safety" issues of bodyshop staff entering the booth at those temps. A slower lower temp bake will result in a (slightly but noticeable) inferior molecular cross-link.
Factor in the extra layers of paint applied by the refinish industry and it becomes a bit easier to understand why a refinished paintjob is rarely as durable as the manufacturers. This is obviously assuming the refinish industry uses the same quality paint as the manufacturer, all of us in the trade know the cost of "quality" materials, explaining that to the customer is a different matter...
Factor in the extra layers of paint applied by the refinish industry and it becomes a bit easier to understand why a refinished paintjob is rarely as durable as the manufacturers. This is obviously assuming the refinish industry uses the same quality paint as the manufacturer, all of us in the trade know the cost of "quality" materials, explaining that to the customer is a different matter...
Our catalytic curing raises the repair temp to about 120 degrees... Protection of plastic lamp lenses is needed at that temp, and you have to watch for mirror casings protruding closer to the catalytic panel and getting above a safe temp, but it's not a problem provided the appropriate protection from the IR rays is put in place.
The wavelength involved ensures full evaporation of the solvent and efficient cross-linking, the panels are atex certified and completely spark free, and the air temp in the booth stays at about 30 degrees...
I appreciate this is a bit of an aside - and fully concede your point that the 99% of repairers using raised air-temp or SWIR curing will have a harder time approaching a factory level of durability.
And yes, explaining why the VM approved clearcoat costs £1k for 5L can be challenging
Protection of plastic lamp lenses is needed at that temp, and you have to watch for mirror casings protruding closer to the catalytic panel and getting above a safe temp, but it's not a problem provided the appropriate protection from the IR rays is put in place.The wavelength involved ensures full evaporation of the solvent and efficient cross-linking, the panels are atex certified and completely spark free, and the air temp in the booth stays at about 30 degrees...
I appreciate this is a bit of an aside - and fully concede your point that the 99% of repairers using raised air-temp or SWIR curing will have a harder time approaching a factory level of durability.
And yes, explaining why the VM approved clearcoat costs £1k for 5L can be challenging
Edited by Anatol on Friday 25th June 15:30
My experience of (SW)infra-red drying is limited to localised heat lamps used for single panel repairs, so I cant really comment on how well they work for full resprays etc. but I'd think the main problems would be ensuring an even distance for every square inch of the paint work and ensuring the heaters have a direct "line of sight" (sorry, couldnt think of a better term!) to the paint. There must be some areas that the heaters cant cure effectively- inner edges/reveals etc. I'm sure the air-transfer oven has had its day, not least due to its inefficiency.
We're going totally off topic here though, to the OP, maybe the birds in your area eat much more caustic berries than the birds of yore!
We're going totally off topic here though, to the OP, maybe the birds in your area eat much more caustic berries than the birds of yore!
Interesting comments on refinished paint.
At the time of posting my original post my car had not long been out of a bodyshop where it had had some substantial respraying following a vandal attack.
I have since my OP given the car a couple coats of Autoglym Extra Gloss Protection and will say that any deposits since have been removed without any marks left.
At the time of posting my original post my car had not long been out of a bodyshop where it had had some substantial respraying following a vandal attack.
I have since my OP given the car a couple coats of Autoglym Extra Gloss Protection and will say that any deposits since have been removed without any marks left.
Edited by zetec on Friday 25th June 23:38
TallPaul said:
My experience of (SW)infra-red drying is limited to localised heat lamps used for single panel repairs, so I cant really comment on how well they work for full resprays etc. but I'd think the main problems would be ensuring an even distance for every square inch of the paint work and ensuring the heaters have a direct "line of sight" (sorry, couldnt think of a better term!) to the paint. There must be some areas that the heaters cant cure effectively- inner edges/reveals etc. I'm sure the air-transfer oven has had its day, not least due to its inefficiency.
We're going totally off topic here though, to the OP, maybe the birds in your area eat much more caustic berries than the birds of yore!
The heat will transfer to the cooler sections and normalise over a short period of time - as will the booth itself, obviously.We're going totally off topic here though, to the OP, maybe the birds in your area eat much more caustic berries than the birds of yore!
PJ S said:
The heat will transfer to the cooler sections and normalise over a short period of time - as will the booth itself, obviously.
I thought that was the whole point of the catalytic converter type infra-red heaters, they only heat the underlying panel, not the actual booth air?Gassing Station | Bodywork & Detailing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff