What products to use for that mirror shine
Discussion
I am looking at buying a rotary polishing machine to improve the quality of the paintwork on my car and was wondering:
A. What the best products are to use
B. What order these need to be used to achieve the sort of shine that Kelly always manages at KDS
C. What is the best overall piece of kit in terms of the polishing machine.
I was going to start off with claying the bodywork, again, what sort of clay and what lubricant to use?
I bought a tub of DODO JUICE PURPLE HAZE which seems to be good, but I want to make sure I am using the right products in the right order.
The car is an E46 BMW M3 in Carbon Black. The paintwork is in good condition, but when I see some of the photos on the forum of cars that have been detailed, the difference is incredible. There is a guy on the Supercardrivers.com website that displayed some photos of various cars that he had detailed; one of them was a CSL, and the pictures speak for themselves. I want to remove some swirl marks and general small scratches and give the paintwork some depth.
Any help would be much appreciated.
A. What the best products are to use
B. What order these need to be used to achieve the sort of shine that Kelly always manages at KDS
C. What is the best overall piece of kit in terms of the polishing machine.
I was going to start off with claying the bodywork, again, what sort of clay and what lubricant to use?
I bought a tub of DODO JUICE PURPLE HAZE which seems to be good, but I want to make sure I am using the right products in the right order.
The car is an E46 BMW M3 in Carbon Black. The paintwork is in good condition, but when I see some of the photos on the forum of cars that have been detailed, the difference is incredible. There is a guy on the Supercardrivers.com website that displayed some photos of various cars that he had detailed; one of them was a CSL, and the pictures speak for themselves. I want to remove some swirl marks and general small scratches and give the paintwork some depth.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Andrew Coates said:
I am looking at buying a rotary polishing machine to improve the quality of the paintwork on my car and was wondering:
A. What the best products are to use
B. What order these need to be used to achieve the sort of shine that Kelly always manages at KDS
C. What is the best overall piece of kit in terms of the polishing machine.
I was going to start off with claying the bodywork, again, what sort of clay and what lubricant to use?
I bought a tub of DODO JUICE PURPLE HAZE which seems to be good, but I want to make sure I am using the right products in the right order.
The car is an E46 BMW M3 in Carbon Black. The paintwork is in good condition, but when I see some of the photos on the forum of cars that have been detailed, the difference is incredible. There is a guy on the Supercardrivers.com website that displayed some photos of various cars that he had detailed; one of them was a CSL, and the pictures speak for themselves. I want to remove some swirl marks and general small scratches and give the paintwork some depth.
Any help would be much appreciated.
HiA. What the best products are to use
B. What order these need to be used to achieve the sort of shine that Kelly always manages at KDS
C. What is the best overall piece of kit in terms of the polishing machine.
I was going to start off with claying the bodywork, again, what sort of clay and what lubricant to use?
I bought a tub of DODO JUICE PURPLE HAZE which seems to be good, but I want to make sure I am using the right products in the right order.
The car is an E46 BMW M3 in Carbon Black. The paintwork is in good condition, but when I see some of the photos on the forum of cars that have been detailed, the difference is incredible. There is a guy on the Supercardrivers.com website that displayed some photos of various cars that he had detailed; one of them was a CSL, and the pictures speak for themselves. I want to remove some swirl marks and general small scratches and give the paintwork some depth.
Any help would be much appreciated.
My personal favourite polish, compounds and pads are the 3m products. At the moment there doing a great deal on everything you need (except the rotary) to get that perfect finish. There pretty easy to use especially that the polishes are colour coded to the pad colour. It also comes with all the clothes, backing plate and even a few masks thrown in for good measure and all comes in a handy 3m case. The link is below:
http://www.3mselect.co.uk/p-1998-3m-perfect-it-iii...
As far as the machine goes, that all depends on the user. You need to try a couple out to see what you feel comfortable with. If you have never used one it would be a good idea to go on a short course that alot of the pros do. That way you'll learn the right techniques and the correct method of practice, as well as seeing what machine your comfortable with. Also if your going for rotary make sure you have a paint depth gauge as you don't want to strike through the clear coat, which would be game over. Problem is with this gear its not a cheap option when your doing it to your own cars and thats it.
As for clay and lube I have only stuck to what im happy with, so i've always used swissvax yellow and dodo juice range. Dodo juice and swissvax make dedicated lube, but megs last touch does the trick and is pretty cheap in terms of quantity. I'm sure kelly can give you fast info on the subject, as hes been in the game since the dawn of time, but hope that info has shed some light!
Regards
Mike
BMW paint can be very hard - I use a DA which wont cause too much damage but can bring up a nice finish.
What you have to do is ask yourself whether its worth the investment to do it properly yourself or actually better off leaving it to a pro.
By the time you add up everything you need it can get quite costly, dont forget that different polishes act differently on different pads etc. You will also need a range of polishes from abrasive through to finer to get that finish you are looking for.
Dont forget also to budget enough time for it - I did my V70 on Saturday and between claying, a light polishing with the machine and a sealant it easily took 9 hrs.
The other thing many people forget is to find a covered space to do it - if you have just machine polished the car and it rains your car is essentially bare naked until you can sort it.
Not trying to put you off in anyway, just be aware of the time and energy you have to invest to get a decent level of correction. If I could I would much rather hand cars for correction to a detailer and simply keep it clean from there on it.
Having said that I really enjoy the process now and the results even on cars that are quite young can be stunning.
3m is really good polish if expensive - but also look at the Menzerna range. I use final finish polish - two hits with that on a DA and most cars look alot better, even if I am not knocking some of the deeper marking out.
What you have to do is ask yourself whether its worth the investment to do it properly yourself or actually better off leaving it to a pro.
By the time you add up everything you need it can get quite costly, dont forget that different polishes act differently on different pads etc. You will also need a range of polishes from abrasive through to finer to get that finish you are looking for.
Dont forget also to budget enough time for it - I did my V70 on Saturday and between claying, a light polishing with the machine and a sealant it easily took 9 hrs.
The other thing many people forget is to find a covered space to do it - if you have just machine polished the car and it rains your car is essentially bare naked until you can sort it.
Not trying to put you off in anyway, just be aware of the time and energy you have to invest to get a decent level of correction. If I could I would much rather hand cars for correction to a detailer and simply keep it clean from there on it.
Having said that I really enjoy the process now and the results even on cars that are quite young can be stunning.
3m is really good polish if expensive - but also look at the Menzerna range. I use final finish polish - two hits with that on a DA and most cars look alot better, even if I am not knocking some of the deeper marking out.
PS Sorry sequence normally is
Wash car
Clay car and de-tar
Tape up trim
Measure paint thickness (if you have a gauge otherwise its at own risk)
Combine pads and polishes till you get correction required
Keep moving onto finer and more gentle combos until you get shine required
Then clean/seal paint (some people wipe down with wipes)
Use wax or glaze of final choice
Step back and enjoy
Wash car
Clay car and de-tar
Tape up trim
Measure paint thickness (if you have a gauge otherwise its at own risk)
Combine pads and polishes till you get correction required
Keep moving onto finer and more gentle combos until you get shine required
Then clean/seal paint (some people wipe down with wipes)
Use wax or glaze of final choice
Step back and enjoy
This is the link to the detailing website: http://www.gleamingkleen.co.uk/portfolio.html
You won't go wrong with 3M fastcut plus on the 3M green mop head followed by 3M Ultrafina SE on the blue waffle head.
Actually, that's not true, you *could* do a lot of damage with a rotary and those compounds - but we use them every day and the gloss you can achieve is exceptional.
Our standard correction is 3M 260L 1500 grit on a 3mm orbit DA with interface pad and vacuum extraction, dry. Then 3M Trizact 3000 grit, wet. Then the above compounds. That's for a hand-sprayed build of lacquer though, I'm not suggesting it be tried on a factory finish.
I must try the Menzerna products, a local detailer whose opinion I respect rates them very highly.
Actually, that's not true, you *could* do a lot of damage with a rotary and those compounds - but we use them every day and the gloss you can achieve is exceptional.
Our standard correction is 3M 260L 1500 grit on a 3mm orbit DA with interface pad and vacuum extraction, dry. Then 3M Trizact 3000 grit, wet. Then the above compounds. That's for a hand-sprayed build of lacquer though, I'm not suggesting it be tried on a factory finish.
I must try the Menzerna products, a local detailer whose opinion I respect rates them very highly.
Andrew Coates said:
I am looking at buying a rotary polishing machine to improve the quality of the paintwork on my car and was wondering:
A. What the best products are to use
B. What order these need to be used to achieve the sort of shine that Kelly always manages at KDS
C. What is the best overall piece of kit in terms of the polishing machine.
I was going to start off with claying the bodywork, again, what sort of clay and what lubricant to use?
I bought a tub of DODO JUICE PURPLE HAZE which seems to be good, but I want to make sure I am using the right products in the right order.
The car is an E46 BMW M3 in Carbon Black. The paintwork is in good condition, but when I see some of the photos on the forum of cars that have been detailed, the difference is incredible. There is a guy on the Supercardrivers.com website that displayed some photos of various cars that he had detailed; one of them was a CSL, and the pictures speak for themselves. I want to remove some swirl marks and general small scratches and give the paintwork some depth.
Any help would be much appreciated.
now there is the million dollar question A. What the best products are to use
B. What order these need to be used to achieve the sort of shine that Kelly always manages at KDS
C. What is the best overall piece of kit in terms of the polishing machine.
I was going to start off with claying the bodywork, again, what sort of clay and what lubricant to use?
I bought a tub of DODO JUICE PURPLE HAZE which seems to be good, but I want to make sure I am using the right products in the right order.
The car is an E46 BMW M3 in Carbon Black. The paintwork is in good condition, but when I see some of the photos on the forum of cars that have been detailed, the difference is incredible. There is a guy on the Supercardrivers.com website that displayed some photos of various cars that he had detailed; one of them was a CSL, and the pictures speak for themselves. I want to remove some swirl marks and general small scratches and give the paintwork some depth.
Any help would be much appreciated.
I promise to come back to this BUT maybe a week or so as very busy boy (reason not been on here for a while)then will try my best to answer and help , lost count with the amount of e46 m3's i have detailed .
Here are a few different m3's from lately
next csl
The short answer is its all about hours and hours of machine correction , on black bmw hard paint i would be machining in 3 stages , course cut then fine then finishing to achieve the finsh as seen above , at least 20 -30 hours of correction alone .
The actual final protection product wont make much of a different if any to the appearance of the paint when correctted FULLY and wiped down with IPA to prove you have perfect paint , many of my photos are after wipe down with bare paint waiting for wax / sealent to be applied (if the sun is out then i always us this to run the car outside and check all panels at different angles) .
A 40 hour detail would be 10 hours tops in washing / cleaning / claying and at the end waxing / sealent and the other 30 hours is what give the ultimate finish .
i have run machine correction on a customers car well over 50 hours for perfection , and as little as 12 hours , but Audi rs4 / rs6 and M3's in dark colours over 20 hours on a good condition car .
On Bmw paint use the 3m range as said , fast cut plus first (green top) , then extra fine cut (yellow top), then finally ultrafina (blue top) .
Use the 3m blue for blue and yellow for yellow foam pads , then for fast cut try a gloss it or lake country pads meduim to heavy cut as i find these much better than the green and orange. i do switch around pads alot while working and wiping down to get the best from each car and each panel too but stick to the 3 pads and you wont go wrong .
softer cars like these then you can just just yellow and finsh with blue (skip the fast cut) to leave this
next
last one i promise
these cars only needed small amount of heavy fast cut in local areas not the entire car .
HTH kelly
Anatol said:
You won't go wrong with 3M fastcut plus on the 3M green mop head followed by 3M Ultrafina SE on the blue waffle head.
Actually, that's not true, you *could* do a lot of damage with a rotary and those compounds - but we use them every day and the gloss you can achieve is exceptional.
Only jump from fast cut plus to blue , if you are practiced enough with fast cut plus to correctly use and diminish the compound correctly , (which is why i said then yellow cut in between for perfect finish) . Actually, that's not true, you *could* do a lot of damage with a rotary and those compounds - but we use them every day and the gloss you can achieve is exceptional.
in truth found much better on very hard paint to always use the fine (yellow) cut as finishing stage , and then blue for that extra ping and gloss to the paint .
Factory bmw paint (e46) wont get much correction from blue really and would not be sure to remove marring from the greenn fast cut .
Which i am sure what you have wrote above , done correctly works well , done incorrectly works extremely well at damaging the paint .
Kelly
If you're recommending the extra step, I'll get some of the yellow and a matching pad in and try it... I'll let you know how we get on. 
The vast majority of machining we do is on repair work we have just sprayed, so it won't have the toughness of a hard, utterly cured factory finish, but it never hurts to have a bit more in the toolkit
The vast majority of machining we do is on repair work we have just sprayed, so it won't have the toughness of a hard, utterly cured factory finish, but it never hurts to have a bit more in the toolkit
Edited by Anatol on Friday 29th October 20:44
Anatol said:
I must try the Menzerna products, a local detailer whose opinion I respect rates them very highly.
Tol , got a new guy with me who used other compounds than 3m and always thought 3m to be just ok , but after many months of training with 5 different compound company's products and some that he would always want to use and fight against my way he has final realised that for 80% of the cars the 3m range is best .
Been there got the tee shirt and now have loads of half empty bottles of compunds and samples from all over the place now back to using what i like best 3M .
Try the yellow top compound , its my most used goto product , will cut well with wool and foam but also finish down very well .
kelly
Anatol said:
If you're recommending the extra step, I'll get some of the yellow and a matching pad in and try it... I'll let you know how we get on.
The vast majority of machining we do is on repair work we have just sprayed, so it won't have the toughness of a hard, utterly cured factory finish, but it never hurts to have a bit more in the toolkit
I know of a few well known pro's that love the yellow 3m compound The vast majority of machining we do is on repair work we have just sprayed, so it won't have the toughness of a hard, utterly cured factory finish, but it never hurts to have a bit more in the toolkit
Edited by Anatol on Friday 29th October 20:44
kelly
3M Extra Fine (yellow top) is a much under utilised and recommended polish.
Works well with varying levels of cut depending on which pad is being used.
Finishes very well, and only on darker colours do you really need to break out the Finesse It (blue) on a blue/black pad to see of any hologramming EF has generated.
That said, a superb one-step polish is Scholl Concept's S17, which will have more cut than EF, and finish down every bit as it does.
Same story for dark colours as EF too.
Works well with varying levels of cut depending on which pad is being used.
Finishes very well, and only on darker colours do you really need to break out the Finesse It (blue) on a blue/black pad to see of any hologramming EF has generated.
That said, a superb one-step polish is Scholl Concept's S17, which will have more cut than EF, and finish down every bit as it does.
Same story for dark colours as EF too.
I was just about to add my 10p but KDS's photos sort of stopped me in my tracks - can you please put a warning up next time dude - stunning, staggering work!!!
From an absolute amateur's perspective, here's some thoughts for you to answer your original 3 questions.
A. What the best products are to use
Those which you feel most comfortable working with which give you the results you are after. I've personally worked with Menzerna for close to 10 years now (I've even kept the first 2 bottles I ever bought - sad but true) and can't find fault. I've tried 3M compounds and could never hit it off but I know of countless professional detailers who swear by it.
Buy yourself a scrap panel and play around with as many as you can get (many retailers sell sample bottles of polishes). Not only will this give you an idea of what works for you but is also hands-down the best way to safely hone your skills with a polisher - only when you're absolutely confident should you start on your actual car IMO.
B. What order these need to be used to achieve the sort of shine that Kelly always manages at KDS
I don't know Kelly personally but AFAIK he's been detailing cars since before they were invented - the bottom line is that he and many other professionals have spent thousands of hours perfecting their art to achive those results. A top flight amateur IMO could get close to similar results with a lot of practice and trial & error but anyone relatively new to the scene has to understand that you won't achieve this overnight. Read here and elsewhere on the tried and tested techniques, practice and refine your skills and remember that over 90% of the results will be down to technique with the balance coming from the right tools and products. Compare it to cooking at the level of a multi Michelin starred chef - yes, you could serve up edible nosh but it wouldn't win an award - you'd need to practice for hours and hours to refine your technique, use the right produce to assist in delivering the perfect meal (yep, I'm watching Masterchef!!)
C. What is the best overall piece of kit in terms of the polishing machine.
I've used a Makita 9227 for years now and rate it highly but when I bought it, the only other rotary around was the Metabo. There is now a far better choice of machines out there, from budget buffers at below £50 to my personal favourite, the Flex 3401 (lightweight but superbly built and beautifully balanced but over £300). If you're starting out, try the budget kit first as you can always sell on if you want to move upwards budget-wise.
For me, switching to a 3M cushioned backing plate was the single best move I made as this transformed my technique with a rotary and improved my results significantly - best £14-off I've spent.
I'd say watch out for machine polishing courses in your area - more and more people are offering these and for me I would have loved this when I started out; I learned from autopia.org and basically trial and error with no-one around to offer me hands-on help.
From an absolute amateur's perspective, here's some thoughts for you to answer your original 3 questions.
A. What the best products are to use
Those which you feel most comfortable working with which give you the results you are after. I've personally worked with Menzerna for close to 10 years now (I've even kept the first 2 bottles I ever bought - sad but true) and can't find fault. I've tried 3M compounds and could never hit it off but I know of countless professional detailers who swear by it.
Buy yourself a scrap panel and play around with as many as you can get (many retailers sell sample bottles of polishes). Not only will this give you an idea of what works for you but is also hands-down the best way to safely hone your skills with a polisher - only when you're absolutely confident should you start on your actual car IMO.
B. What order these need to be used to achieve the sort of shine that Kelly always manages at KDS
I don't know Kelly personally but AFAIK he's been detailing cars since before they were invented - the bottom line is that he and many other professionals have spent thousands of hours perfecting their art to achive those results. A top flight amateur IMO could get close to similar results with a lot of practice and trial & error but anyone relatively new to the scene has to understand that you won't achieve this overnight. Read here and elsewhere on the tried and tested techniques, practice and refine your skills and remember that over 90% of the results will be down to technique with the balance coming from the right tools and products. Compare it to cooking at the level of a multi Michelin starred chef - yes, you could serve up edible nosh but it wouldn't win an award - you'd need to practice for hours and hours to refine your technique, use the right produce to assist in delivering the perfect meal (yep, I'm watching Masterchef!!)
C. What is the best overall piece of kit in terms of the polishing machine.
I've used a Makita 9227 for years now and rate it highly but when I bought it, the only other rotary around was the Metabo. There is now a far better choice of machines out there, from budget buffers at below £50 to my personal favourite, the Flex 3401 (lightweight but superbly built and beautifully balanced but over £300). If you're starting out, try the budget kit first as you can always sell on if you want to move upwards budget-wise.
For me, switching to a 3M cushioned backing plate was the single best move I made as this transformed my technique with a rotary and improved my results significantly - best £14-off I've spent.
I'd say watch out for machine polishing courses in your area - more and more people are offering these and for me I would have loved this when I started out; I learned from autopia.org and basically trial and error with no-one around to offer me hands-on help.
AndyMI16 said:
can you please put a warning up next time dude
OK 
Porn Alert ...Porn Alert
Have a look at this thread which shows a lot of products used and results that can be obtained from them.
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.p...
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