Will Lotus cars make it to 2015?

[bertie]

Captain Muppet said:

Don't forget that a large proportion of the workforce at Lotus are working on third party engineering projects, and not building cars.

You are trying to make your point with incomplete data.

Really? I thought, in a bizarre move, they'd ditched the eng side and moved all the staff onto cars.

[Captain Muppet]

bertie said:

Really? I thought, in a bizarre move, they'd ditched the eng side and moved all the staff onto cars.

The problem with client cofidentiality is that the internet doesn't know about it.

[bertie]

Captain Muppet said:

The problem with client cofidentiality is that the internet doesn't know about it.

I this you telling me I'm wrong but that you can't tell me I'm wrong, if you get me?

[matts4]

I heard yesterday that production has stopped till April for new cars and they have sent staff home.
Is this normal for Lotus at this time of year?

[Dodgey_Rog]

matts4 said:

I heard yesterday that production has stopped till April for new cars and they have sent staff home.
Is this normal for Lotus at this time of year?

Where did you hear that? There are alot of reliable sources that post on these forums and nothings been said about production stoppages as yet?

[matts4]

From someone who works there.
Its general production from what I can gather. (Some specific production is to continue though)

I hardly guess Lotus are likely to come out and PR the fact they've cut back production.

Edited by matts4 on Tuesday 14th February 15:17

[Dodgey_Rog]

matts4 said:

From someone who works there.
Its general production from what I can gather. (Some specific production is to continue though)

I hardly guess Lotus are likely to come out and PR the fact they've cut back production.

Edited by matts4 on Tuesday 14th February 15:17

I would ask them if its normal, seeing as they work there? French car plants shut down for the whole of August, which can be slightly annoying if you're busiest time of year was August the 1st and then they change it to September 1st!!!

I thought they were on a mission to get the GTE's built for China?

[matts4]

Not normal apparently.

[bobo]

hard to buy a new car under those circumstances - if true.

matts4 said:

Not normal apparently.

[Tuna]

If the other thread is anything to go by, the sudden suspension of Proton's accounts during the sale to DRB Hicom is the cause of the pause.

On a much more positive note, DRB Hicom are (it seems) sounding committed to the current plan, and sales of the new Exige and GTE are looking very good indeed. If Lotus can survive the cash flow issue, they stand to have a very good year this year - the start of the turn-round having an effect?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=23&...

[Hedgerley]

There is a 60 day moratorium under Malaysian law following the takeover by DRB Hicom. Lotus won't have access to the (committed) Proton cash to finance their day to day operations during this period, so some reduction in production activity is understandable.

DB explains it here, along with the latest view of his 5 year plan -

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/...

[Jellinek]

matts4 said:

From someone who works there.
Its general production from what I can gather. (Some specific production is to continue though)

I hardly guess Lotus are likely to come out and PR the fact they've cut back production.

Edited by matts4 on Tuesday 14th February 15:17

Is it just me or does anyone think this just plain shocking?

Lotus have a full order book according to DB, but they cut back production almost immediately after Proton's coffers temporarily close. To say they are living on a knife edge (financially) would be a gross overstatement. If its true, I can't believe how reckless the management approach is. They'll be lucky to see 2013, let alone 2015.

[Tuna]

Jellinek said:

Is it just me or does anyone think this just plain shocking?

Lotus have a full order book according to DB, but they cut back production almost immediately after Proton's coffers temporarily close. To say they are living on a knife edge (financially) would be a gross overstatement. If its true, I can't believe how reckless the management approach is. They'll be lucky to see 2013, let alone 2015.

Depends how they manage their books I guess. Someone's been funding plenty of development and expansion under a long term plan to sort out the company. They've also been keeping up with current orders. How that money is juggled between Group Lotus, Proton, Lotus Cars and Lotus Engineering is anyone's guess.

[The Pits]

It's hardly a surprise is it? How many evoras do you see about? Or 11 plate Elises for that matter?

Current line up remains a £30k sports car with 134bhp and a 911 for people who don't like porsches.

The latter is a market of precisely one person (me) and even I don't have one.

I believe the new Exige S will find buyers and I'll be amazed if it's not a critical success too. I think the new Elise SC will find some buyers too but neither are available to buy yet.

As for the Esprit I have every faith that it will be mind blowing to drive. But it needs to be mind blowing to look at too and I think Donato Coco has dropped the ball there. Also having slagged off the Evora's stying he should have updated it along with the other MY2012 updates. Can't imagine why he hasn't really. Hopefully things will improve this year for Lotus. And I hope they radically overhaul the Esprit's styling. It must be a car I want to sell my V12 Vantage for. Right now it isn't.

[LotusSpecial]

From what I have heard, Lotus have not made profit in the past 5 or 6 years. Their first forecast of profit is 2014 as long as everything works out with these new models. Its a sink or swim tactic with these new models.

I understand why people argue that they should remain cheap for the enthusiasts, and i have seen a few people say the elise should be 20k etc etc. but if they cant make a profit selling cars at 30k, they are hardly gonna sell them for 20k after god knows how many cost saving changes to the elise. They must push forward towards being a prestigious car company. Keep the elise as a 30-40k car for the enthusiasts but then make sure they hit the market running with these new 1s! dont rush them to find out all these niggling issues that the evora went thru. cos these people who buy 100k+ cars, wont stand for it, they are very disloyal and will happuily jump ship and head straight for the nearest ferrari dealer...

[The Pits]

they didn't seem to mind that the new 458s had a 'catching on fire' niggle when they first came out!

[RYH64E]

LotusSpecial said:

I understand why people argue that they should remain cheap for the enthusiasts, and i have seen a few people say the elise should be 20k etc etc. but if they cant make a profit selling cars at 30k, they are hardly gonna sell them for 20k after god knows how many cost saving changes to the elise.

I don't understand how they could fail to make money selling an updated S1 Elise for £20k. It doesn't need aircon, power steering, central locking, power hood, traction control, electric windows, stereo/ipod/bluetooth etc. It doesn't even matter if the panel fit ain't great and it rattles. A simple, lightweight, no frill sports car will sell - last time they tried it it sold loads.

[John145]

RYH64E said:

I don't understand how they could fail to make money selling an updated S1 Elise for £20k. It doesn't need aircon, power steering, central locking, power hood, traction control, electric windows, stereo/ipod/bluetooth etc. It doesn't even matter if the panel fit ain't great and it rattles. A simple, lightweight, no frill sports car will sell - last time they tried it it sold loads.

Because you don't understand engineering I guess. The mod cons are the cheap things. The real expensive items on an elise is completely bespoke everything! (apart from switch gear)

The chassis is massively expensive, suspension, bushing, bodywork, etc etc etc.

The only way to make a cheap Elise (20k) is to piggy back off another manufacturer's chassis but then you would lose what makes the Elise so good...the chassis.

[RYH64E]

John145 said:

Because you don't understand engineering I guess. The mod cons are the cheap things. The real expensive items on an elise is completely bespoke everything! (apart from switch gear)

The chassis is massively expensive, suspension, bushing, bodywork, etc etc etc.

The only way to make a cheap Elise (20k) is to piggy back off another manufacturer's chassis but then you would lose what makes the Elise so good...the chassis.

A completely bespoke K series and gearbox? I never knew that.

I know that design and development costs are a significant part of the overall cost, but if you sell a decent quantity then you can at least amortise those costs in a sensible way. How many S1 Elises did they sell, 15,000ish?

[The Pits]

You can still buy a no-frills Elise for £28k.

What do you propose they make instead that would be more popular and more profitable?