Will Lotus cars make it to 2015?
Discussion
marshalla said:
bertie said:
Hang on...heritage??
TVR - Founded 1946
Lotus - Founded 1952
Lotus Engineering Ltd. incorporated in 1952, first Lotus car (the Mark I) was built in 1948.TVR - Founded 1946
Lotus - Founded 1952
Lotus F1 Championship: 1963, 1965, 1968, 1970, 1972, 1973, 1978
Lotus WRC Championship: 1981
Lotus BTC Championship: 1963
TVR F1 Championship: none
TVR WRC Championship: none
TVR BTC Championship: none
Which in terms of heritage might be more valuable, especially given that TVR had a two year head start.
more to the point Lotus are back in motorsport in a big way for 2012.
with a decent car under Kimi Raikonnen there is a chance of making it to 80 F1 victories
a chance to improve on their impressive debut at Le Mans with the Evora GTE, plus a new LMP2 entry to compete at the sharper end
a return to rallying, Indy and even karting.
Is there any other manufacturer with such widespread involvement in motorsport?
If people respect brands with motorsport heritage then this is the right way to re-establish the brand.
with a decent car under Kimi Raikonnen there is a chance of making it to 80 F1 victories
a chance to improve on their impressive debut at Le Mans with the Evora GTE, plus a new LMP2 entry to compete at the sharper end
a return to rallying, Indy and even karting.
Is there any other manufacturer with such widespread involvement in motorsport?
If people respect brands with motorsport heritage then this is the right way to re-establish the brand.
The Pits said:
more to the point Lotus are back in motorsport in a big way for 2012.
with a decent car under Kimi Raikonnen there is a chance of making it to 80 F1 victories
That would be the former Renault carrying Lotus badging then ? for a team which has no link whatsoever (even in name) to the one which scored all the F1 wins.with a decent car under Kimi Raikonnen there is a chance of making it to 80 F1 victories
The Pits said:
a chance to improve on their impressive debut at Le Mans with the Evora GTE, plus a new LMP2 entry to compete at the sharper end
the only actual Lotus product in any series.
The Pits said:
a return to rallying, Indy and even karting.
Is there any other manufacturer with such widespread involvement in motorsport?
If people respect brands with motorsport heritage then this is the right way to re-establish the brand.
Everything else being a sponsorship deal (until the alleged rally car breaks cover and demonstrates some potential), not proper manufacturer participation.Is there any other manufacturer with such widespread involvement in motorsport?
If people respect brands with motorsport heritage then this is the right way to re-establish the brand.
Big difference between paying to put your badges on something and actually building the cars yourself, or maybe even spending it on delivering what you said you would instead of blowing it all on vanity projects.
Edited by marshalla on Friday 24th February 21:34
Bibs_LEF said:
Lotus Cup UK, Europe, USA (East & West), Eastern Europe, Lotus Ladies Cup etc...
I thought those were series organised independently of the factory and entered by non-factory teams/privateers. I'd be very happy to be put right and discover that the factory is actually putting money into technical support for those. Shame they don't make a bit more noise about them.The websites for them certainly give the impression that they're independent of the factory apart from a bit of sponsor money.
Edited by marshalla on Saturday 25th February 00:28
Hang on, just got your point Bibs. Agreed - there are plenty of Lotus products running in lesser known series, as they have been for years, either exclusively Lotus or mixing it with other historics & specials. If we started to list them all, this thread would probably extend another 3 or 4 pages.
My point wasn't very well put across - the Evora & possibly the rally car will be the only Lotus designed & built products (from the ground up) competing on behalf of Lotus against other manufacturers. The rest of the money is being spent on other people's racing.
My point wasn't very well put across - the Evora & possibly the rally car will be the only Lotus designed & built products (from the ground up) competing on behalf of Lotus against other manufacturers. The rest of the money is being spent on other people's racing.
This is turning into 'what did the romans ever do for us' so apart from GTE racing, le mans and rallying...
Besides no-one cares and really F1 is just funding and stickers anyway. Renault, mechachrome, supertech... f1 is so specialised whatever the name is and whoevers behind it, it had very little to do with the Clio.
Would you deny Bentley's Le Mans win? Is the Aston Martin DBR9 just a Prodrive car with stickers? The list is literally endless.
And what do you make of the ilmor powered Honda/Brawn/Mercedes that schumacher drives?
How is that different in any meaningful way to the toleman/benetton/renault/enstone/LotusRenault/ team now officially called Lotus F1?
Besides no-one cares and really F1 is just funding and stickers anyway. Renault, mechachrome, supertech... f1 is so specialised whatever the name is and whoevers behind it, it had very little to do with the Clio.
Would you deny Bentley's Le Mans win? Is the Aston Martin DBR9 just a Prodrive car with stickers? The list is literally endless.
And what do you make of the ilmor powered Honda/Brawn/Mercedes that schumacher drives?
How is that different in any meaningful way to the toleman/benetton/renault/enstone/LotusRenault/ team now officially called Lotus F1?
The Pits said:
How is that different in any meaningful way to the toleman/benetton/renault/enstone/LotusRenault/ team now officially called Lotus F1?
"Lotus" keep banging on about a heritage that the current efforts don't really have - they're not connected in any way to the old Team Lotus. They can't seem to make up their minds if they're a "reboot" of the brand or trying to be a continuation, and they're making some, IMHO, dodgy claims as a result of it.marshalla said:
"Lotus" keep banging on about a heritage that the current efforts don't really have - they're not connected in any way to the old Team Lotus. They can't seem to make up their minds if they're a "reboot" of the brand or trying to be a continuation, and they're making some, IMHO, dodgy claims as a result of it.
You could say the same for the Current Caterham team (formerly team Lotus - formerly Lotus Racing) They too had nothing to do with the Lotus Cars (Hethel) or Clive Chapman's Classic Team Lotus apart from some decals. Many Race teams have little to do with the name that they carry on them but harp on about Heritage. What Lotus are attempting to do is put it's name out there for the general public to see. It's called "Advertising" or "product awareness".
Because so many people are talking about what Lotus are or aren't doing. Non-motoring people are becoming more aware of the product that Lotus are producing. Many who wouldn't have even heard of the marque a couple of years ago.
There are many on here who are just Lotus bashers, All they want to do is slag them off, no matter what they try and do. I agree, some of the Lotus communications have been rather odd, but it has to be looked at as to who the communications are aimed at.
How many or you complained about the new Range Rover Evoque having "Design input" by Victoria Beckham ? It's all about product placement.
marshalla said:
"Lotus" keep banging on about a heritage that the current efforts don't really have - they're not connected in any way to the old Team Lotus. They can't seem to make up their minds if they're a "reboot" of the brand or trying to be a continuation, and they're making some, IMHO, dodgy claims as a result of it.
all you're showing is a lack of understanding about motorsport, how it works and the entire point of it.there's no attempt here to answer my post, merely more negativity. To what end?
The Pits said:
all you're showing is a lack of understanding about motorsport, how it works and the entire point of it.
there's no attempt here to answer my post, merely more negativity. To what end?
That amount of motorsport sponsorship can't be cheap, and I can't see that it is sustainable unless there are obvious, quick results in the form of substantially increased sales (unlikely), or if the owners have very deep pockets and an extremely long term plan (rare in my experience).there's no attempt here to answer my post, merely more negativity. To what end?
Increasing costs like this, in a pretty haphazard and unfocussed way, is only likely to add to the pressure for short term results imo.
The Pits said:
all you're showing is a lack of understanding about motorsport, how it works and the entire point of it.
there's no attempt here to answer my post, merely more negativity. To what end?
My point wasn't really about motorsport though - it's about the fact that Lotus are spending money faster than they are making it - by giving it to other people who aren't involved in their core business (if they even know what that is). It smacks of a company trying to advertise it's way out of imminent bankruptcy - desperately trying to create demand where there is none. Lotus have chosen one of the most expensive form of advertising too and seem to be giving an inconsistent message (at least, I can't work out what their message is).there's no attempt here to answer my post, merely more negativity. To what end?
Edited by marshalla on Saturday 25th February 13:57
Monkey boy 1 said:
You could say the same for the Current Caterham team (formerly team Lotus - formerly Lotus Racing) They too had nothing to do with the Lotus Cars (Hethel) or Clive Chapman's Classic Team Lotus apart from some decals.
Quite, but Group Lotus weren't paying them to use the name - it was the other way round when it started, then there was a fuss over use of the brand on some merchandise and it all went silly from there - from having an effectively free advert for Lotus Cars it ended up in court and then moved on to Group Lotus paying to have the name on other cars.As for the other badged cars - I don't see them making such a fuss about links to the past (but then I'm sensitised to green & yellow badges more than any others so can't really assess whether there's a difference or not).
marshalla said:
My point wasn't really about motorsport though - it's about the fact that Lotus are spending money faster than they are making it - by giving it to other people who aren't involved in their core business (if they even know what that is). It smacks of a company trying to advertise it's way out of imminent bankruptcy - desperately trying to create demand where there is none. Lotus have chosen one of the most expensive form of advertising too and seem to be giving an inconsistent message (at least, I can't work out what their message is).
sorry, you've completely lost me now. no idea what you're on about.Edited by marshalla on Saturday 25th February 13:57
marshal said:
Lotus have chosen one of the most expensive form of advertising too and seem to be giving an inconsistent message (at least, I can't work out what their message is).
The thing is that outside of the receptive fraction of pistonheads, lotus make funny kit cars that only boy racers and old men with beards care about. Discussing it rationally isn't going to change that opinion. Delivering a better product can take decades before it takes hold. Proton agreed to a huge investment plan to change the future of Lotus, and that money was never going to be just about investing in engineering. Not least because, for all the excellent engineering in the world, they've struggled to sell cars for years.Edited by marshalla on Saturday 25th February 13:57
You can analyze it to death and it won't make sense because you pay attention to messages sent to many disparate groups. Lotus need to talk to all of them though because that's the association that they want - Lotus = motorsport. Not just F1, or one make series, or LeMans, or rallying, or whatever. Lotus aren't obscure kit cars only relevant to car obsessive, they're credible modern sports cars.
Given the amount thrown at the car industry, there's no cheap or easy way to get that message across. Whether it's going to work is another question, but it was never going to be about a quick bit of sponsorship and an advert in the back of Evo. The big boys are global brands these days and they stay that way by being many things to many people.
Tuna said:
The thing is that outside of the receptive fraction of pistonheads, lotus make funny kit cars that only boy racers and old men with beards care about. Discussing it rationally isn't going to change that opinion. Delivering a better product can take decades before it takes hold. Proton agreed to a huge investment plan to change the future of Lotus, and that money was never going to be just about investing in engineering. Not least because, for all the excellent engineering in the world, they've struggled to sell cars for years.
You can analyze it to death and it won't make sense because you pay attention to messages sent to many disparate groups. Lotus need to talk to all of them though because that's the association that they want - Lotus = motorsport. Not just F1, or one make series, or LeMans, or rallying, or whatever. Lotus aren't obscure kit cars only relevant to car obsessive, they're credible modern sports cars.
Given the amount thrown at the car industry, there's no cheap or easy way to get that message across. Whether it's going to work is another question, but it was never going to be about a quick bit of sponsorship and an advert in the back of Evo. The big boys are global brands these days and they stay that way by being many things to many people.
What a stupid statement - funny kit cars my arse You can analyze it to death and it won't make sense because you pay attention to messages sent to many disparate groups. Lotus need to talk to all of them though because that's the association that they want - Lotus = motorsport. Not just F1, or one make series, or LeMans, or rallying, or whatever. Lotus aren't obscure kit cars only relevant to car obsessive, they're credible modern sports cars.
Given the amount thrown at the car industry, there's no cheap or easy way to get that message across. Whether it's going to work is another question, but it was never going to be about a quick bit of sponsorship and an advert in the back of Evo. The big boys are global brands these days and they stay that way by being many things to many people.
Eliser said:
What a stupid statement - funny kit cars my arse
For most of the western world that's what a lot of people think of Lotus. Just read the threads on the American forums on people trying to explain their car to strangers. If it's not that, it's "loads of trouble usually serious"...Obviously it's stupid but it's amazing what poor brand recognition Lotus have.
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