RE: Honda Powered Elise
Discussion
The only problem is that Honda do not sell engines, so you have to buy the car as well and then bin it.
hoganscrogan not too sure why you think that your S2000 can beat even a standard Elise on a track. Are you suggesting that the S2000 has better ride and handling? I seem to remember a review pitting the S2000 against the Elise and VX220 and it didn't fare to well then.
I think if you had two drivers of equal ability, then the standard Elise would win on the track.
Edited by Kojak on Friday 7th September 17:45
Kojac. Because I have not only read about these two cars but actually driven them both extensivley on road and track. Standard Elise is not as fast in track situations.
eg. Big straight at Bentwater after a chicane, Elise ahead of me, reeled in on straight and overtook (no skill involved just foot down) - the Elise does handle and ride nicer (altough is alot more prone to lift off oversteer compared to the Honda) but this does not mean it is faster.
I chose Honda because of the amzing engine and it's abit easier to live with. Also it can be poked in to oversteer fun alot easier (in my opion) than a standard elise which I enjoy in a car. My fianl decision was a close call.
Does anyone know if there are plans to make the 160bhp k series engine out of the MG ZR (25!) the elise standard engine.
It would seem to answer a few of the performance questions that people have about the elise and surely wouldn't be difficult or expensive for lotus so they wouldn't have to pass it all on to the customer.
Edited by Ali_D on Thursday 13th September 09:28
Just to continue an earlier thread about tuning up standard engines.
My neighbour races at a clubman level in a highly modified but still (barely) road-legal Caterham 7.
His engine originally started out as the Vauxhall 2.0 litre, but there isn't much of the the original engine left after the mods and it now puts out 260bhp!
He says that even with RaceLogic Traction Control it is a little to hairy to use on the road.
Another Caterham 7 owner says that the Ford Zetec engine can be tuned up to respectable levels for reasonable sums of money.
So, basically, there are many options available.
(Personally I've always wondered what a Caterham 7 or an Elise would be like with the Corrado's VR6 engine in it).
Regards
Jon
97R Chimaera 500
96N Corrado VR6
JohnRB - The Vauxhall/Caterham thing brings into focus what an amazing job Honda have done with the S2000 engine - 26mpg -240 hp (250hp for Japan spec.) and completely docile to drive when necessary ...cheap to service too.
Addictive to use 
- I have opened up my induction box (just removed the plastic top to reveal cone filter) and it sounds amazing screaming up to 9,000 rpm - people turn when they hear me bumbling about (more so than in the Chimera I hired!!)
- I have opened up my induction box (just removed the plastic top to reveal cone filter) and it sounds amazing screaming up to 9,000 rpm - people turn when they hear me bumbling about (more so than in the Chimera I hired!!) V6 Caterham - how about the Wesfield Seight? I rember reading about the first one with a tuned rover V8 and side pipes. Would spit fire and scare the hell out of anybody near it!!
Would also get interesting when starting up sometimes - spat petrol out of the carb after a refueling stop - which then burst into flames, gave the tester abit of a shock...
Of course in the US we don't have much choice (yet), a Lotus Elise with a Honda engine is it. So I have a question, if I can get the Elise with a Honda engine for about the same price as a Porsche Boxster S, which is recommended. By the way, a comment on a previous post about having to buy a honda to get the engine, no the conversion company supplies the engines, so you don't have to buy a car for it.
I've owned two Vtec CRX's and ran an S2000 & a Teg R for a day each when thinking about getting one. I love Honda engineering & have always loved the delivery of the VTEC's - Esp the B16A, and to a lesser extent the B18C. My Ideal car would be the B18C in an Elise.....but I wouldnt pay Sun all that dosh!
Personal view, but I found the S2000 utterly gutless. The delivery is too smooth, with no noticeable cam cut-over. I'm sure a Vtec controller would sort this, but in standard guise its benign. I waited 2 years for honda to launch the car - deposit in hand - but it didn't turn out to be what I'd expected.
To suggest that an S2000 is less prone to lift off oversteer than an elise is laughable. That for me was one of the worst points of the S2000. It was built with three chassis / suspension configs - the UK / Euro set-up being the most susceptible to oversteer (because thats allegedly what all european drivers want & hence it was engineered in). I managed to get the back out constantly - It was too keen to let go - much more so than an elise.
Yes, above 80 I'd expect an S2000 to leave an elise on a track , but anywhere below that, and in the twisties I doubt that an S2000 would come close (same driver / conditions etc - no mine's bigger than yours debate).
ALL honda engines up to 2.2L have apalling Torque curves & delivery! No arguement. Put an S2000 in fourth at 70 & floor it. I don't think I was ever as disappointed with the S2000 than when I took it for a motorway run....but then again I've bought Honda's in the past because I liked to rev the car.....but I still wouldn't suggest it had anything but poor torque.
"infinately variable valve timing" - like on a VVC or Vanos setup?
I am not a troll, but I like to offer an alternative view
(nothing personal). The last track day I attended, an S2000 driver was given the wooden spoon & advised to take up a new hobby 
. (True - but meant as a joke). Strangely, even the standard elises managed to pass him!
Personal view, but I found the S2000 utterly gutless. The delivery is too smooth, with no noticeable cam cut-over. I'm sure a Vtec controller would sort this, but in standard guise its benign. I waited 2 years for honda to launch the car - deposit in hand - but it didn't turn out to be what I'd expected.
To suggest that an S2000 is less prone to lift off oversteer than an elise is laughable. That for me was one of the worst points of the S2000. It was built with three chassis / suspension configs - the UK / Euro set-up being the most susceptible to oversteer (because thats allegedly what all european drivers want & hence it was engineered in). I managed to get the back out constantly - It was too keen to let go - much more so than an elise.
Yes, above 80 I'd expect an S2000 to leave an elise on a track , but anywhere below that, and in the twisties I doubt that an S2000 would come close (same driver / conditions etc - no mine's bigger than yours debate).
ALL honda engines up to 2.2L have apalling Torque curves & delivery! No arguement. Put an S2000 in fourth at 70 & floor it. I don't think I was ever as disappointed with the S2000 than when I took it for a motorway run....but then again I've bought Honda's in the past because I liked to rev the car.....but I still wouldn't suggest it had anything but poor torque.
"infinately variable valve timing" - like on a VVC or Vanos setup?
I am not a troll, but I like to offer an alternative view
(nothing personal). The last track day I attended, an S2000 driver was given the wooden spoon & advised to take up a new hobby . (True - but meant as a joke). Strangely, even the standard elises managed to pass him!
quote:
Honda makes boring econo boxes hence sacrilege to put in a Lotus! Nuff said.
GO FOURTH AND MULTIPLY!
Integra-R
Civic-R
Accord-R
Prelude
95-2000 Civic-R (Jap import)
S2000
NSX
Any Honda with a VTi of Type-R badge (Don't know about US or Canadian badging).
Honda make some of the best engines in the world. Do a bit a research before spouting more rubbish.
Let's get this straight, Honda make some of the best drivetrain and engine combos around. They also make them affordable and reliable, something lots of other manufacturers struggle with.
The Rover K-Series engine was a development between Rover & Honda so I don't see how anyone can dismiss it as shoddy. The VVC version of the K Series was in fact much better in some respects than the V-Tec engines. The torque curve was smoother and made it far more drivable and easier to use.
The Rover K-Series engine was a development between Rover & Honda so I don't see how anyone can dismiss it as shoddy. The VVC version of the K Series was in fact much better in some respects than the V-Tec engines. The torque curve was smoother and made it far more drivable and easier to use.
Well I never.
You lot really are a bunch of snobs aren't you. What is wrong with putting a honda engine in a Lotus?? Sounds like a wonderful idea to me. Shame it's not the one BAR use!!
A Lotus Honda could be a wonderful example of the way forward. A world in which manufacturers work together on their strengths, much like F1. Just imagine the possibilities.
You lot really are a bunch of snobs aren't you. What is wrong with putting a honda engine in a Lotus?? Sounds like a wonderful idea to me. Shame it's not the one BAR use!!
A Lotus Honda could be a wonderful example of the way forward. A world in which manufacturers work together on their strengths, much like F1. Just imagine the possibilities.
I thought these forums were for trading interesting stuff about Lotus??
I dont know about anyone else, but I love my standard 118 bhp Elise. The Honda engine sounds great if you love top end reving, but for good torque through the range I suspect it might not live up to the K series. If you want to see where the low/mid range torque comes in handy, try driving an Elise (or Honda) across the Alps. Driving a standard car (in a fairly standard way - I'm no Ayrton!) on the Stelvio tour, like everyone else I was streaming past the very well driven factory sponsored Elise 190 which simply didn't have enough torque to cope with steep S bends. Fantastic on a track, but useless on a hill climb - or for that matter for driving through town!
I've always fancied nicking the 1.6i engine out of my girlfriend's Peugeot 106 GTi - it has something like 112 bhp, oodles of torque delivered in a totally smooth, consistent delivery from 2500-7000 revs. Absolutely awesome engine and I'd bet it's probably even lighter than the K block.
cheers
Sheds
I dont know about anyone else, but I love my standard 118 bhp Elise. The Honda engine sounds great if you love top end reving, but for good torque through the range I suspect it might not live up to the K series. If you want to see where the low/mid range torque comes in handy, try driving an Elise (or Honda) across the Alps. Driving a standard car (in a fairly standard way - I'm no Ayrton!) on the Stelvio tour, like everyone else I was streaming past the very well driven factory sponsored Elise 190 which simply didn't have enough torque to cope with steep S bends. Fantastic on a track, but useless on a hill climb - or for that matter for driving through town!
I've always fancied nicking the 1.6i engine out of my girlfriend's Peugeot 106 GTi - it has something like 112 bhp, oodles of torque delivered in a totally smooth, consistent delivery from 2500-7000 revs. Absolutely awesome engine and I'd bet it's probably even lighter than the K block.
cheers
Sheds
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