Pre 76 Elan - Should I scratch the itch?!
Discussion
Hi All,
I attended a pretty low key car meet last Summer, amongst the cars there was a cracking Elan Sprint in a very interesting green/copper colour combo. The look, the wooden dash, the size etc looked utterly perfect to me.
As a 20 year plus owner of an Elise, 7 year owner of a V6 Exige, I clearly feel that the Lotus DNA fits me and I cannot stop looking at Elans in the classifieds. Many around the 30-40K bracket ( non Sprints ) have been treated to indulgent levels of repair. Originality is not a must for me, if there are know n fixes for things like overheating, I would happily seek a modified one that addresses this shortcoming
Can I ask those that know:
Are FHC's like an oven in the summer?
Are the later cars significantly better?
Will the build quality be worse or better than my 1970 Mini?
Is the side impact protection basically fibreglass?
What do I need to know?
Thanks in advance!
TH
I attended a pretty low key car meet last Summer, amongst the cars there was a cracking Elan Sprint in a very interesting green/copper colour combo. The look, the wooden dash, the size etc looked utterly perfect to me.
As a 20 year plus owner of an Elise, 7 year owner of a V6 Exige, I clearly feel that the Lotus DNA fits me and I cannot stop looking at Elans in the classifieds. Many around the 30-40K bracket ( non Sprints ) have been treated to indulgent levels of repair. Originality is not a must for me, if there are know n fixes for things like overheating, I would happily seek a modified one that addresses this shortcoming
Can I ask those that know:
Are FHC's like an oven in the summer?
Are the later cars significantly better?
Will the build quality be worse or better than my 1970 Mini?
Is the side impact protection basically fibreglass?
What do I need to know?
Thanks in advance!
TH
Tin Hat said:
Hi All,
I attended a pretty low key car meet last Summer, amongst the cars there was a cracking Elan Sprint in a very interesting green/copper colour combo. The look, the wooden dash, the size etc looked utterly perfect to me.
As a 20 year plus owner of an Elise, 7 year owner of a V6 Exige, I clearly feel that the Lotus DNA fits me and I cannot stop looking at Elans in the classifieds. Many around the 30-40K bracket ( non Sprints ) have been treated to indulgent levels of repair. Originality is not a must for me, if there are know n fixes for things like overheating, I would happily seek a modified one that addresses this shortcoming
Can I ask those that know:
Are FHC's like an oven in the summer?
Are the later cars significantly better?
Will the build quality be worse or better than my 1970 Mini?
Is the side impact protection basically fibreglass?
What do I need to know?
Thanks in advance!
TH
All Elans tend to get hot inside due to their size and 'tight' engine bay arrangementI attended a pretty low key car meet last Summer, amongst the cars there was a cracking Elan Sprint in a very interesting green/copper colour combo. The look, the wooden dash, the size etc looked utterly perfect to me.
As a 20 year plus owner of an Elise, 7 year owner of a V6 Exige, I clearly feel that the Lotus DNA fits me and I cannot stop looking at Elans in the classifieds. Many around the 30-40K bracket ( non Sprints ) have been treated to indulgent levels of repair. Originality is not a must for me, if there are know n fixes for things like overheating, I would happily seek a modified one that addresses this shortcoming
Can I ask those that know:
Are FHC's like an oven in the summer?
Are the later cars significantly better?
Will the build quality be worse or better than my 1970 Mini?
Is the side impact protection basically fibreglass?
What do I need to know?
Thanks in advance!
TH
Later cars are no better per se than earlier ones though it depends in what respect you are framing the term 'better'
I don't think you can really make any meaningful comparison between a Mini and an Elan (I have/have had both), they are very different things. Don't forget all Elans are likely to have been rebuilt and so the 'build quality' will very much depend upon how well they have been done.
There is no side impact protection - Elan incorporates a wire lattice arrangement in the cill structure which has usually dissolved, the Plus 2 has a more substantial box section in the cill which also doubles as the seat belt pick up point but those too have often turned to dust. If crash worthiness is high on your priority list an Elan is probably not for you.
They are however brilliant to drive with steering feel and precision that I'd submit is even better than any modern Lotus. They are a real event to drive in any form.
You really need to have a drive or passenger in one to know if its right for you.
My friend has a 'baby' Elan with a 185bhp Zetec in and it's a complete riot. Many folk improve them for modern reliability with better cooling, CV driveshafts, spaceframe replacement chassis (a la Spyder) electronic ignition and even fuel injection.
I have an Elise 111s and a Plus 2 and the Plus 2 is more of an occasion to drive and garners far more attention (if that's your thing).
Edited by Lotobear on Monday 13th February 18:06
Lotobear said:
Tin Hat said:
Hi All,
I attended a pretty low key car meet last Summer, amongst the cars there was a cracking Elan Sprint in a very interesting green/copper colour combo. The look, the wooden dash, the size etc looked utterly perfect to me.
As a 20 year plus owner of an Elise, 7 year owner of a V6 Exige, I clearly feel that the Lotus DNA fits me and I cannot stop looking at Elans in the classifieds. Many around the 30-40K bracket ( non Sprints ) have been treated to indulgent levels of repair. Originality is not a must for me, if there are know n fixes for things like overheating, I would happily seek a modified one that addresses this shortcoming
Can I ask those that know:
Are FHC's like an oven in the summer?
Are the later cars significantly better?
Will the build quality be worse or better than my 1970 Mini?
Is the side impact protection basically fibreglass?
What do I need to know?
Thanks in advance!
TH
All Elans tend to get hot inside due to their size and 'tight' engine bay arrangementI attended a pretty low key car meet last Summer, amongst the cars there was a cracking Elan Sprint in a very interesting green/copper colour combo. The look, the wooden dash, the size etc looked utterly perfect to me.
As a 20 year plus owner of an Elise, 7 year owner of a V6 Exige, I clearly feel that the Lotus DNA fits me and I cannot stop looking at Elans in the classifieds. Many around the 30-40K bracket ( non Sprints ) have been treated to indulgent levels of repair. Originality is not a must for me, if there are know n fixes for things like overheating, I would happily seek a modified one that addresses this shortcoming
Can I ask those that know:
Are FHC's like an oven in the summer?
Are the later cars significantly better?
Will the build quality be worse or better than my 1970 Mini?
Is the side impact protection basically fibreglass?
What do I need to know?
Thanks in advance!
TH
Later cars are no better per se than earlier ones though it depends in what respect you are framing the term 'better'
I don't think you can really make any meaningful comparison between a Mini and an Elan (I have/have had both), they are very different things. Don't forget all Elans are likely to have been rebuilt and so the 'build quality' will very much depend upon how well they have been done.
There is no side impact protection - Elan incorporates a wire lattice arrangement in the cill structure which has usually dissolved, the Plus 2 has a more substantial box section in the cill which also doubles as the seat belt pick up point but those too have often turned to dust. If crash worthiness is high on your priority list an Elan is probably not for you.
They are however brilliant to drive with steering feel and precision that I'd submit is even better than any modern Lotus. They are a real event to drive in any form.
You really need to have a drive or passenger in one to know if its right for you.
My friend has a 'baby' Elan with a 185bhp Zetec in and it's a complete riot. Many folk improve them for modern reliability with better cooling, CV driveshafts, spaceframe replacement chassis (a la Spyder) electronic ignition and even fuel injection.
I have an Elise 111s and a Plus 2 and the Plus 2 is more of an occasion to drive and garners far more attention (if that's your thing).
Edited by Lotobear on Monday 13th February 18:06
Although it's a bit different. but the principles hold, I have a 1963 Elan GTS race car. It's the most fun you can possibly have on track. It has so many abilities. You see them driven massively sideways but that hasn't proven to be the fastest for us (Miss Bert jnr co-drives). There is the world's best driving sweetspot that I struggle to describe. I was driving it round Silverstone GP, arriving too fast at corners and keeping the back end out there. Then I mentally slapped myself and dialled it back to much more modest slip angles and found 4 seconds a lap. But importantly, it turned modest me into a driving god!
Now with 190bhp, it lasts about 5 minutes between breakages, but such an astonishing car. I will also get a road version at some point soon!
Now with 190bhp, it lasts about 5 minutes between breakages, but such an astonishing car. I will also get a road version at some point soon!
I've always preferred the FHC to the dropheads (I've owned four - two 2-seater Elans, two Plus 2's), and IMO FHC's are fine in the summer - you simply wind the windows down. What you lose in ventilation, you gain from the fact that you're shaded from direct sunlight.
The later cars are arguably worse, because they have more complex electrics (a big Elan weak point - it's the separate earths necessary because of the fibreglass body) and are heavier. Theoretically, they have more power to compensate, but since most older engines have been rebuilt by now, and since it's straightforward to rebuild any Elan engine to an enhanced specification giving circa 145bhp, there may be nothing in it.
Build quality? Well, they won't rust like a Mini; most have had replacement chassis by now, but apart from that I don't think it can be denied that they are a lot more fragile and temperamental than a Mini. If you lack the knowledge to maintain them yourself, including chasing down electrical faults, you'll find them very expensive to maintain if you have to rely on a specialist.
Yes, the side impact protection is basically fibreglass. As Lotobear says, there is a lattice of bent steel rods (concrete reinforceing rods, basically) in each door sill, but it wouldn't do much in a crash. If it's rusted away to nothing, though, it's a sign of neglect, 'cos you can and should replace them if they corrode (though fibreglass work is involved).
Expect any car you buy to have been neglected, and to need going over thoroughly (suspension components, electrics, possible engine issues) before it becomes reliable. Once you've done that, they are moderately reliable if you treat them to constant preventative maintenance, but there's no denying their fragility.
Chassis can crack (particularly around the differential mounts/torque rods at the back, and that's worsened by the solid driveshaft conversions that a lot of people favour), whiich is a replacement chassis job.
Paintwork is seldom perfect, and despite the lack of rust, don't expect them to last forever cosmetically - they usually develop stress cracks and osmosis over the years, so will need an expensive respray at intervals.
The engines eat valve guides and water pumps for fun (the valve guides are too short by design). The standard water pump is an engine-out job to do properly, 'cos it's built into the front cover which is then sandwiched between sump and head. 'Cartridge' type replacements are available that can be changed without removing sump and head, so can be changed in-situ, but whether they are worth it is debatable.
The headlamp lifter systems are prone to leaks, and the vacuum switch/valve on the dash (which is usually one of the main culprits) is now unobtainable, but electric conversions or solenoid remote vacuum valves are available.
Modern driveshaft donuts aren't the quality they used to be and don't last long, which is one reason a lot of people swap to the solid driveshaft conversions, but in addition to the extra stress these place on the chassis, they also put more stress on the mounting arms of the differential casting itself, which is prone to breaking (you'll often see them having been welded). Personally, I prefer to stick with the donuts, but just check them regularly for splits and cracks in the rubber.
Beware of sheep in Sprint's clothing: many S4's have been painted to look like Sprints, when they are not, and some DHC's are FHC's that have been chopped.
Be aware that the Stromberg carburettor version of the engine is a different cylinder head to that for Webers/Dellortos and is not regarded as being as desirable. Personally, I actually like the Strombergs. They don't rev as crisply when you sit blipping the throttle at the lights, but the variable chokes give much better torque spread under load, and a Stromberg S/E is quicker than a standard Sprint in real-world driving, as well as giving better fuel consumption... but you can't tune them much above 140bhp, whereas the Weber/Dellorto head will give 145bhp with modest modifications, and 165bhp+ whilst remaining road driveable if you throw a bit of money and effort at it. The market has spoken, though, so don't pay too much for a Stromberg-engined car.
The later cars are arguably worse, because they have more complex electrics (a big Elan weak point - it's the separate earths necessary because of the fibreglass body) and are heavier. Theoretically, they have more power to compensate, but since most older engines have been rebuilt by now, and since it's straightforward to rebuild any Elan engine to an enhanced specification giving circa 145bhp, there may be nothing in it.
Build quality? Well, they won't rust like a Mini; most have had replacement chassis by now, but apart from that I don't think it can be denied that they are a lot more fragile and temperamental than a Mini. If you lack the knowledge to maintain them yourself, including chasing down electrical faults, you'll find them very expensive to maintain if you have to rely on a specialist.
Yes, the side impact protection is basically fibreglass. As Lotobear says, there is a lattice of bent steel rods (concrete reinforceing rods, basically) in each door sill, but it wouldn't do much in a crash. If it's rusted away to nothing, though, it's a sign of neglect, 'cos you can and should replace them if they corrode (though fibreglass work is involved).
Expect any car you buy to have been neglected, and to need going over thoroughly (suspension components, electrics, possible engine issues) before it becomes reliable. Once you've done that, they are moderately reliable if you treat them to constant preventative maintenance, but there's no denying their fragility.
Chassis can crack (particularly around the differential mounts/torque rods at the back, and that's worsened by the solid driveshaft conversions that a lot of people favour), whiich is a replacement chassis job.
Paintwork is seldom perfect, and despite the lack of rust, don't expect them to last forever cosmetically - they usually develop stress cracks and osmosis over the years, so will need an expensive respray at intervals.
The engines eat valve guides and water pumps for fun (the valve guides are too short by design). The standard water pump is an engine-out job to do properly, 'cos it's built into the front cover which is then sandwiched between sump and head. 'Cartridge' type replacements are available that can be changed without removing sump and head, so can be changed in-situ, but whether they are worth it is debatable.
The headlamp lifter systems are prone to leaks, and the vacuum switch/valve on the dash (which is usually one of the main culprits) is now unobtainable, but electric conversions or solenoid remote vacuum valves are available.
Modern driveshaft donuts aren't the quality they used to be and don't last long, which is one reason a lot of people swap to the solid driveshaft conversions, but in addition to the extra stress these place on the chassis, they also put more stress on the mounting arms of the differential casting itself, which is prone to breaking (you'll often see them having been welded). Personally, I prefer to stick with the donuts, but just check them regularly for splits and cracks in the rubber.
Beware of sheep in Sprint's clothing: many S4's have been painted to look like Sprints, when they are not, and some DHC's are FHC's that have been chopped.
Be aware that the Stromberg carburettor version of the engine is a different cylinder head to that for Webers/Dellortos and is not regarded as being as desirable. Personally, I actually like the Strombergs. They don't rev as crisply when you sit blipping the throttle at the lights, but the variable chokes give much better torque spread under load, and a Stromberg S/E is quicker than a standard Sprint in real-world driving, as well as giving better fuel consumption... but you can't tune them much above 140bhp, whereas the Weber/Dellorto head will give 145bhp with modest modifications, and 165bhp+ whilst remaining road driveable if you throw a bit of money and effort at it. The market has spoken, though, so don't pay too much for a Stromberg-engined car.
Edited by Equus on Sunday 19th February 00:03
Gassing Station | General Lotus Stuff | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff