Elise Glue - how long til it unsticks?
Discussion
What is the lifespan like on the glue used to bond the Elise?
I had heard 12yrs, which would be pretty much the age of the early ones?
In theory it could become brittle with age - does anyone know what the adhesive actually is? Is it "Sikaflex"?
If anyone has details on what sort of adhesive it is, i'd be interested.
I have also heard that there was a change to the adhesive used as some of the early ones / prototypes peeled apart. Any details would be welcome
Cheers!
I had heard 12yrs, which would be pretty much the age of the early ones?
In theory it could become brittle with age - does anyone know what the adhesive actually is? Is it "Sikaflex"?
If anyone has details on what sort of adhesive it is, i'd be interested.
I have also heard that there was a change to the adhesive used as some of the early ones / prototypes peeled apart. Any details would be welcome
Cheers!
Marvindodgers said:
Monkey boy 1 said:
Mk1 chassis glue was green (turquoise colour) the Mk2's have the Tomato Ketchup colour glue.
This is not the case. My W plate 2000 year Elise is an S1 model and that has red colour adhesive. It is not a localised repair, the whole car has red adhesive.Look at this way, do you really think lotus would design a chassis that falls apart after 12 years?
Such a move would effectively destroy there reputation, and pretty much be the end of lotus cars.
Whatever the glue's sell by date is it's certainly not going to be 12 years
Such a move would effectively destroy there reputation, and pretty much be the end of lotus cars.
Whatever the glue's sell by date is it's certainly not going to be 12 years
Edited by peter450 on Friday 7th March 19:36
GKP said:
Best way to prolong the early cars life expectancy is to rub toothpaste into the adhesive. Make sure you don't use any of the 'brightening' ones, though as they contain a mild abrasive compound.
Is the BCBBS still going?
Remember that thread well! The Barnabus Collins one was another all time classic. :-)Is the BCBBS still going?
The longevity of the chassis all depends upon which colour glue that Lotus used to bond it together with.
Early S1’s used red glue but the chassis on the high mileage test car came apart one winter during a testing trip to Stelvio, so the factory switched to blue glue which is less permeable and subsequent tests proved that the red glue would decompose over about 5 years, with higher mileage cars being more at risk.
It is common practice to protect both the red and blue glue by rubbing it with toothpaste during the winter, but this is problematic as repeated applications are required.
Don’t use Colgate as it seems to react with the glue and comes up in a lather. Colgate seems to have far too much fluoride in it and could cause even more damage to the glue.
Instead of using toothpaste Lotus have an official protective coating for the glue which is part no. A111H00KLINESINKER011277UJ7. It still requires re-application though and it is expensive so it is far more economical to stick with toothpaste.
The red glue is apparently stronger but the blue glue lasts longer and has more flexing in it and also has the added benefit of being approximately 3kg per car lighter, this is why they use it on the S2.
The reason the blue glue is lighter is because the red glue uses compressed atoms in a double density arrangement. So for any given length of glue, the red glue’s extra weight can be calculated using the commonly accepted formula devised by one of the original Danish engineers at Hydro.
X = (1.14712Y)*4/3Y^2 where Y is the weight of blue glue
All S2’s are manufactured using blue glue and there have been numerous problems where the blue glue turns green as it ages and this is exacerbated by extreme cold temperatures. Once green it’s far past its best, you see green on lots of cars kept outside and driven through the winter - it seems to be the salt that’s accelerating the degradation of the glue.
You need to keep a close eye on the colour of the glue, but it’s still within specification even if it has turned green as long as it never turns orange - if you have orange glue then talk to your dealer immediately as the glue is now well out of specification.
Lotus have said this method of bonding is only good for 10-12 years anyway. They know all about this problem yet still try to pretend that they have sorted the problem - You should all go and have a look under the engine cover at the chassis rails - that’s where it tends to go orange really quickly. Maybe the heat makes the degradation happen quicker?
Some owners have reported that when their glue turned green they definitely noticed a feeling of more flexing in the chassis and are worried that up-rated suspension and more powerful aftermarket engines must put even more strain on the chassis joints. It has worried some owners to the point where they won’t run with slicks anymore.
Lotus will begrudgingly replace the glue if it has turned orange within the chassis warranty period. This is a lengthy job but at least it's all under warranty though, so shouldn’t be problem. Although the car has to be returned to Hethel as it is not a dealer job.
Before re-bonding they have to immerse the chassis in acid to strip off the old glue. The benefit of this is that the chassis comes out looking like new. The VIN gets an 'R' added at the end to show this has been done.
Early S1’s used red glue but the chassis on the high mileage test car came apart one winter during a testing trip to Stelvio, so the factory switched to blue glue which is less permeable and subsequent tests proved that the red glue would decompose over about 5 years, with higher mileage cars being more at risk.
It is common practice to protect both the red and blue glue by rubbing it with toothpaste during the winter, but this is problematic as repeated applications are required.
Don’t use Colgate as it seems to react with the glue and comes up in a lather. Colgate seems to have far too much fluoride in it and could cause even more damage to the glue.
Instead of using toothpaste Lotus have an official protective coating for the glue which is part no. A111H00KLINESINKER011277UJ7. It still requires re-application though and it is expensive so it is far more economical to stick with toothpaste.
The red glue is apparently stronger but the blue glue lasts longer and has more flexing in it and also has the added benefit of being approximately 3kg per car lighter, this is why they use it on the S2.
The reason the blue glue is lighter is because the red glue uses compressed atoms in a double density arrangement. So for any given length of glue, the red glue’s extra weight can be calculated using the commonly accepted formula devised by one of the original Danish engineers at Hydro.
X = (1.14712Y)*4/3Y^2 where Y is the weight of blue glue
All S2’s are manufactured using blue glue and there have been numerous problems where the blue glue turns green as it ages and this is exacerbated by extreme cold temperatures. Once green it’s far past its best, you see green on lots of cars kept outside and driven through the winter - it seems to be the salt that’s accelerating the degradation of the glue.
You need to keep a close eye on the colour of the glue, but it’s still within specification even if it has turned green as long as it never turns orange - if you have orange glue then talk to your dealer immediately as the glue is now well out of specification.
Lotus have said this method of bonding is only good for 10-12 years anyway. They know all about this problem yet still try to pretend that they have sorted the problem - You should all go and have a look under the engine cover at the chassis rails - that’s where it tends to go orange really quickly. Maybe the heat makes the degradation happen quicker?
Some owners have reported that when their glue turned green they definitely noticed a feeling of more flexing in the chassis and are worried that up-rated suspension and more powerful aftermarket engines must put even more strain on the chassis joints. It has worried some owners to the point where they won’t run with slicks anymore.
Lotus will begrudgingly replace the glue if it has turned orange within the chassis warranty period. This is a lengthy job but at least it's all under warranty though, so shouldn’t be problem. Although the car has to be returned to Hethel as it is not a dealer job.
Before re-bonding they have to immerse the chassis in acid to strip off the old glue. The benefit of this is that the chassis comes out looking like new. The VIN gets an 'R' added at the end to show this has been done.
Thudd said:
I have also heard that there was a change to the adhesive used as some of the early ones / prototypes peeled apart. Any details would be welcome
Cheers!
Most people crash them long before this happens.Cheers!
In my owners manual their was an addendum for chassis replacement at the first F-service (due at 15 years or 150,000 miles - which ever is sooner).
Rob
http://www.elises.co.uk
I covered all my visible glue with a thin layer of bathroom sealant. I was told that the veyron is covered with something similar and it would give me another year or two before the glue needed replacing. Was a complete body off job but the results were worth it. My roof no longer leaks either due to a load of sealant over the windscreen. Next time I won't use the White stuff though as it looks a bit odd on a
black elise.
black elise.
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