Discussion
Yes, even though Lynx had a visit from the DVLA, even though they pronounced the work that Lynx was doing satisfactory, even though I sent copies of every Lynx brochure to the DVLA, they still declared the car unknown and withdrew the V5. But now, in France, it is registered as a Lynx XKSS. But you'll note that the plate has a distinctly "British" flavour, and it was made for me by Tipper's plates. The front stick-on one is just as good too.
Astacus said:
Ouch, So is this the fate of all lynx cars then?
One can't be sure, but two years ago a Lynx D-type that was UK registered, then went to Spain, then came back was forced to go through the IVA, so it looks very much as thought the DVLA has it in for any car twhere the description on the V5 doesn't match the actual car. There a many C and D-types out there running around on a Mk VII or Mk 2 log book for example.
It is I suppose, my fault, but let me relate the story. Knowing that, as above, the DVLA had sanctioned Lynx builds, I phoned and asked them if the definition of the car could be changed from E-type 2+2 to XKSS. I pointed out that the car had been built over 30 years ago. They said yes, so I sent my V5 in. Three months later I hadn't had it back, so phoned to see if they had received it. I was told yes, and a week later, back came the log book preceded by an email basically saying that they weren't sure how to go about it so had referred it to someone else. Then the fun started, and they got their teeth into it and cancelled the registration. Never once did they accept that it was their fault for telling me to send the V5 in. So, if I had not done a thing I would probably have still been on UK plates, but at the same time it would never have got to where it did if they had not told me that all was well and that I should return the V5 with a letter of request.
Panic in the kit-car market set in recently when a story circulated that the DVLA were seen at the Stoneleigh show, lap tops in hand, vetting cars registration numbers against what the car now was and pulling registrations on the spot. Turned out to be fake news, but it could happen I suppose if they get really nasty. The point is that there are a lot of people out there sitting on cars that cost considerable sums who could be burned. Just take the instance of a DB4 having the chassis shortened and rebuilding it as a Zagato. How many Le Mans Bentleys were a Mk V1 when originally built? The list goes on and on.
Peter3442 said:
Rich, that's a good question.
The answer depends on how DVLA apply the rules (or even obey them). It seems that DVLA can be deliberately difficult. Very few W.O. Bentleys had racing bodywork when originally registered, while nowadays very many do and other mechanical modifs. Many of the owners will have difficulty proving the date of modification. And if they can, will the DVLA accept that proof or re-register the Bentleys as kit cars on Q plates. Looking at Lowdrag's and A.G.'s experiences, there's little reason why they shouldn't do exactly that.
Closer to my own heart, I can accept that most Beacham Jaguar Mk2s might be treated as 'new' the date they came out of Beacham's shop or the date of the engine installed in them. But should that apply to a car modified with coils, rack and pinion steering and a larger capacity XK engine?
Apart from registration plates, date is a factor in emissions requirements, which can make life very complicated.
In my case Peter, I had proof that the car was modified over 30 years ago but still they refused to accept the fact and withdrew my registration. Which begs the question as to what has happened to my private plate as well. The DVLA. I hear, have employed poachers turned gamekeepers from the restomod world, but that could just be hearsay and taken with a pinch of salt until definitive proof is forthcoming. And Pandora's box seems to be opening whether we like it or not. What about all the Austin 7 hill-climb specials built pre-war for example?The answer depends on how DVLA apply the rules (or even obey them). It seems that DVLA can be deliberately difficult. Very few W.O. Bentleys had racing bodywork when originally registered, while nowadays very many do and other mechanical modifs. Many of the owners will have difficulty proving the date of modification. And if they can, will the DVLA accept that proof or re-register the Bentleys as kit cars on Q plates. Looking at Lowdrag's and A.G.'s experiences, there's little reason why they shouldn't do exactly that.
Closer to my own heart, I can accept that most Beacham Jaguar Mk2s might be treated as 'new' the date they came out of Beacham's shop or the date of the engine installed in them. But should that apply to a car modified with coils, rack and pinion steering and a larger capacity XK engine?
Apart from registration plates, date is a factor in emissions requirements, which can make life very complicated.
I asked the FHBVC and their reply was that they did not support any replicas, only "real" cars. As regards re-importing the car, I won't bother but I would refer you to my post above where a Lynx D-type was exported to Spain, then re-imported, and was sent for an IVA. I agree that for years many have got away with murder by using the identity of another car, and any car built since 1996 SVA) or 2009 (IVA) could be in serious difficulties. But Lynx finished building cars before either existed and indeed built their first car in 1974 (my D-type was 1977) and anyway, the DVLA themselves went to Lynx and approved of what they were doing. It is all water under the bridge now, but it does irk and threads like this will make people aware of the potential problems implicit in buying a replica. There are rumours - and I specifically say rumours since I have no proof - that the DVLA, when cars are sold, are asking for photos of the car as proof it is what it says on the tin, and there are similar rumours that one manufacturer of replicas has already had a few cars pulled because their replica is not an XJ6 as the V5 states. Maybe someone has more concrete evidence on this?
But they were told that there was no need so they didn't re-register the cars. And all the Lynx cars are now theoretically in danger it seems. The Eventers, the C-types, the D-types and the XKSS. They built a twin-turbo S-type saloon as well, plus five low drags but I suppose these are still E-type coupés so exempt if the V5 shows the same. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Firstly, as regards the Por Sang episode, it was rather like the GT40s being built in South Africa having continuation chassis numbers. The BOC were so impressed with the cars that they issued continuation chassis numbers for them. The poo hit the fan when a certain Colonel Blimp, enraged that they were devaluing his own real Type 35, blew the whistle to the DVLA.
As regards the Spider, what does it say on your V5? If it says XJS Convertible then you are clean and green. If a coupé, perhaps not. I say this because a V12 E-type coupé was converted to a roadster and the DVLA made it go the IVA route. But, as I say to everyone, there is no actual crisis at the moment. Just don't post photos of your car on the internet, or, if you do, black out the number plate. Yes, the DVLA are getting difficult, but only if they have reason like in the pur Sang case, and as far as I am informed also with another replica maker too. Just keep your head below the parapet, becaue, being a fool and believing what I was told by the DVLA, I shot myself in the foot.
As regards the Spider, what does it say on your V5? If it says XJS Convertible then you are clean and green. If a coupé, perhaps not. I say this because a V12 E-type coupé was converted to a roadster and the DVLA made it go the IVA route. But, as I say to everyone, there is no actual crisis at the moment. Just don't post photos of your car on the internet, or, if you do, black out the number plate. Yes, the DVLA are getting difficult, but only if they have reason like in the pur Sang case, and as far as I am informed also with another replica maker too. Just keep your head below the parapet, becaue, being a fool and believing what I was told by the DVLA, I shot myself in the foot.
I've been involved with Lynx cars for 20 years now and AFAIK this chassis number is not issued by Lynx. The car is LHD and only one of the nine Lynx cars was made in LHD and that car is still, once again AFAIK, in Prague. And it was built in 1999 or perhaps a bit later. I'd like you to look at these photos for a moment:-
These are both Lynx cars, the top one on Czeck built last year and the other an original Lynx. Note the distinct differences in the mouth, the bumpers, and most importantly the shape of the bonnet between the two wings.
Moreover, note the difference in the bonnet humps. A common mistake in replicas, it is symmetrical like an E-type, not assymmetrical as it should be due to the engine being canted 7 degrees.
Without doubt, this is one of the Czech Lynx cars and not Lynx of the last century. Note the glove box lid, Steve McQueen style, and this could well be the car I saw at XK70 last year. The price is extraordinary, since this car could have been bought for £150,000 less at XK70 assuming it is the same one. And I'd like you to look at the angle of the steering column since this car is LHD. To me that looks dangerous, but then I am not an engineer.
All in all, it isn't what it says on the tin. this car is #15 of nine built, or 10 if you include mine.Their reference to 1965 is the identity of the E-type that formed the basis of this car. Lastly, the car is, again AFAIK, not registered in the UK and would need to pass the IVA.
These are both Lynx cars, the top one on Czeck built last year and the other an original Lynx. Note the distinct differences in the mouth, the bumpers, and most importantly the shape of the bonnet between the two wings.
Moreover, note the difference in the bonnet humps. A common mistake in replicas, it is symmetrical like an E-type, not assymmetrical as it should be due to the engine being canted 7 degrees.
Without doubt, this is one of the Czech Lynx cars and not Lynx of the last century. Note the glove box lid, Steve McQueen style, and this could well be the car I saw at XK70 last year. The price is extraordinary, since this car could have been bought for £150,000 less at XK70 assuming it is the same one. And I'd like you to look at the angle of the steering column since this car is LHD. To me that looks dangerous, but then I am not an engineer.
All in all, it isn't what it says on the tin. this car is #15 of nine built, or 10 if you include mine.Their reference to 1965 is the identity of the E-type that formed the basis of this car. Lastly, the car is, again AFAIK, not registered in the UK and would need to pass the IVA.
Edited by lowdrag on Wednesday 8th May 07:00
No ideas for a name said:
Advert seems to have been pulled... following the above link we get;
"This advert has now been removed through sale or otherwise, please see the list below for similar live adverts"
Yes, it has been removed. I spoke to Hoffmans and it seems that the advert was received from the seller by a staff member who was not a specialist"This advert has now been removed through sale or otherwise, please see the list below for similar live adverts"
in old Jaguars, and he posted it, naturally assuming to be correct. I phoned them (I know them because I tested the Proteus C-type and wrote an article on it) and pointed out that there were problems. The director rang me back, thanked me for my input and said a new advert will be place in due course. The car is, of course, a brand new XKSS made by Lynx in Czechoslovakia, not one of the originals. I did query the price of £418,000, since they were £275,000 last year, but was told that this is toughly the price at which they are now selling. As an original Lynx owner, I shall sleep well tonight!
julian64 said:
Do/did the lynx have the tub with the frame attached or do they have a simple ladder frame chassis?
In effect, it was the same as the E-type in its conception; the front A-frames were bolted to the bulkhead and the rear IRS bolted on, so yes, is the answer. the first of your assumptions is correct
We're slightly off piste but CKL track days are the stuff of legend. Here we have Ludovic Lindsay driving the Lumsden/Sargent low drag being somewhat surprised by the unusual obstacles caused by Chris's wife Claire.
I have driven both live and IRS D-types and it is horses for courses. Jaguar tried de Dion rear axles and one is shown here:-
Lynx built a few live axle cars on special order but the rest were IRS like mine. Overall I'd prefer the IRS for every day use. The rear digs in while the live axle patters and skips.
I have driven both live and IRS D-types and it is horses for courses. Jaguar tried de Dion rear axles and one is shown here:-
Lynx built a few live axle cars on special order but the rest were IRS like mine. Overall I'd prefer the IRS for every day use. The rear digs in while the live axle patters and skips.
Edited by lowdrag on Saturday 11th May 03:21
Cynicism and sarcasm noted. I find it a bit laborious to travel 300 miles to such an event at a cost of about £700 return including hotel costs, but then probably you can afford it whereas I can't. Anyway, I think your definition of my car is somewhat off the mark. It is not a moulded plastic shell and a ladder chassis but a hand-crafted alloy body with uprated suspension and modified engine which actually is more powerful than a real XKSS was in the day. I am not denigrating kit cars here, just pointing out that such cars are in the main built by the owner, not in a factory. A Lotus 7 was a kit car to avoid purchase tax I seem to recall, but still a great and mythical car which I would be happy to see at any event. Lynx did start out by selling kits but the vast majority of their cars were built in house, as was mine. Few kits were sold in fact. But I do not represent my car as being real, although when some sarcastic big-headed twit criticizes the car to my face and asks if it is a real one I do reply "yes, it is". But I do not carry on to say that it is a real Lynx either. And I do wonder why your posts are flagrantly aggressive and rude.
You have it in one Ken. Because the Le Mans circuit has but two sharp bends and a 2.5 mile straight (without chicanes in the day) the live axle worked better, but elsewhere the D-type wasn't up to scratch. Reims was another example of being virtually a triangle and the live axle suited there too.
Cor Blimey, this is an old thread revived! Talking of the Keith-Lucas family, here are a few racing shots:-
The first, Andrew's first race at Castle Coombe:-
The second (I love this) Claire on a CKL track day. That's Ludovic dodging the tyres in 49 FXN):-
And Chris at the Le Mans Classic 2018:-
All three driving the same car. A wonderful racing family, and one day Chris should write a book about his life, from lynx and then CKL
The first, Andrew's first race at Castle Coombe:-
The second (I love this) Claire on a CKL track day. That's Ludovic dodging the tyres in 49 FXN):-
And Chris at the Le Mans Classic 2018:-
All three driving the same car. A wonderful racing family, and one day Chris should write a book about his life, from lynx and then CKL
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