1969 Maserati Ghibli - The Resurection

[Geoffers]

JMC1 said:

Please keep posting updates and photos as this is one of the most interesting threads on PH.

Well done you are doing a great job and the end product will be amazing.

Agreed !!

[Chad speed]

Whilst making the new front valance, repairs to the nose were also tackled. The nose is supported by a ½” box section frame that butts up to the inside of the nose panel and wings either side of the headlamp pods. Moisture appears to have sat between the frame and the back of the panels and rusted through over time, additionally there were brazed repairs (as seen elsewhere) to the nose and just behind the headlights. Cutting, fabricating and welding in the new sections was pretty straight forward, except where the metal had thinned. What was not so straightforward was my first go at lead loading which is definitely an acquired art, especially on vertical panels.


Previous repair behind headlight cut out with corners of wing and nose in the process of being cut.


Old brazed repair on nose, also see the amount of original lead loading around the headlights.


Rotten inner box section and panel cut out.


Part way through the repair.


Repair welded in.


Repair after lead loading.

[Yertis]

Really inspiring Chad, this thread has had me looking up prices of new MiG welding gear and rusty old Spitfires (something nice and cheap to get my hand in).

[The Surveyor]

Looking great Roger, as always the quality looks fantastic and can't wait to see the next set of pictures...

Paul

[GTSJOE]

Really enjoying the thread , you are doing an incredible job at bring one of the all time great cars back to the condition it deserves to be in . As you point out in a previous thread , ghibli's are not seen in the same light as the Muira or the Daytona but in their day they outsold both of them. The ghibli had loads more torque than the Daytona and was a better handling car than the Muira. I read a report that said the ghibli pulled a higher G-force around a race track than the Daytona , just going to prove that it had better road holding than it's rivals.

I have recently bought a Ghibli from the U.S , a 1970 european spec car , will be undertaking the restoration project as soon as it arrives back in the country. Will keep you posted.

[Chad speed]

GTSJOE said:

Really enjoying the thread , you are doing an incredible job at bring one of the all time great cars back to the condition it deserves to be in . As you point out in a previous thread , ghibli's are not seen in the same light as the Muira or the Daytona but in their day they outsold both of them. The ghibli had loads more torque than the Daytona and was a better handling car than the Muira. I read a report that said the ghibli pulled a higher G-force around a race track than the Daytona , just going to prove that it had better road holding than it's rivals.

I have recently bought a Ghibli from the U.S , a 1970 european spec car , will be undertaking the restoration project as soon as it arrives back in the country. Will keep you posted.

Great news Joe, that will be 4 Ghibli undergoing restoration in the south east, we could start a club. It would be great to think we could have all of them together at an event some time, can we have a picture please.
Been a bit busy lately but will try and post further pictures this weekend.

[GTSJOE]

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1970-maserati-g...

As you can see from the link it's a half finished project , engine has been rebuilt but the body needs work . The chassis is in good order , the floor has been rebuilt too . I have ordered the original build sheet from the Maserati factory , looking forward to finding out the original spec for the car . You should email [e-mail] , he will provide you with all the original paper work for your car , you need to send him the Vin number as well a photograph of the chassis number .

[neutral 3]

I saw that B hills Car club one for sale as well. Wondered what had happened to it !

[JMC1]

The Beverly Hills web site is very interesting which I have not seen before.

What do you Maserati experts make of the raty 1971 4.9SS they have for sale (see link). It looks a mess but anything can be restored at a price.

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1971-maserati-g...

Does the $34,750 (£22,000) asking price make sense for the amount of work that the car needs or would it become an expensive donor car.

I know that it is a 4.9 which has some premium but I thought it seemed expensive.

I did notice that the wheels at least look very nice.

[cardigankid]

Yes, a Daytona is epic, and the Miura was sublime, but in those days Maserati had a touch of class which IMHO exceeded both of them, and the Ghibli was the best of them all. Keep it going guys, brilliant work.

[Chad speed]

JMC1 said:

The Beverly Hills web site is very interesting which I have not seen before.

What do you Maserati experts make of the raty 1971 4.9SS they have for sale (see link). It looks a mess but anything can be restored at a price.

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1971-maserati-g...

Does the $34,750 (£22,000) asking price make sense for the amount of work that the car needs or would it become an expensive donor car.

I know that it is a 4.9 which has some premium but I thought it seemed expensive.

I did notice that the wheels at least look very nice.

Unless the buyer of that car is able and prepared to do most or all of the work himself I think it could be a financial disaster. In the September 2007 edition of Classic Cars magazine Any Heywood (Bill McGrath Maserati Guru) is quoted as saying " Avoid money pits. A full restoration could cost more than a £100,00", sadly I think this car falls into that category.

As for the desirability of the 4.9SS over the 4.7, my view is there is very little in it. I could be bias of course but the 4.7's were generally the earlier cars with a lot of delicate features which were changed as the car aged resulting in some less pleasing details. To my mind the only real value increasing option was power steering. Ivans excellent guide explains it a bit more:
http://thecarnut.com/Manuals/Ghibli_Features_Optio...

[JMC1]

Chadspeed Thanks for the reply the Ivans guide that you linked to your reply makes for fascinating reading.
In the Ivans guide picture 149 on page 76/78 is of a mid series car in a beautiful dark blue do you know what is the official Maserati name for that colour.

[GTSJOE]

JMC 1 , here is a web link showing all the colours for the Ghibli , circa 1970 , hope this helps.


http://thecarnut.com/Manuals/Paint/Paint-chips.pdf

[neutral 3]

Re Power steering , I well remember my late Dad saying that the steering was heavy on AM 115 100 , he used his one a lot around Londons West End ( 1973-75 ) so ime guessing that's where it was hard work. At speed though I would guess the non power steering Ghibli is the better car ?

The guy who bought her new had another earlier car, perhaps he didn't like PAS !

[FWDRacer]

Bookmarked - Inspirational.

[Captain Cadillac]

JMC1 said:

The Beverly Hills web site is very interesting which I have not seen before.

What do you Maserati experts make of the raty 1971 4.9SS they have for sale (see link). It looks a mess but anything can be restored at a price.

http://www.beverlyhillscarclub.com/1971-maserati-g...

Does the $34,750 (£22,000) asking price make sense for the amount of work that the car needs or would it become an expensive donor car.

I know that it is a 4.9 which has some premium but I thought it seemed expensive.

I did notice that the wheels at least look very nice.

I'm no Maserati expert but that car looks like a great way to get "gored by the Trident". That's a line I read in a British classic car mag years ago and it's stuck with me.

They have what APPEARS to be a nice one for $69k. Unless you can do all the work yourself you'd be very hard pressed to get the $35k one into the shape of the $69k one for $34,000. In fact, I don't think it's possible to do so. The other Ghibli that was bought in what looks like bare metal seems to be a MUCH better project as a fair amount of the pricey work was done.

As an example, it's funny you guys bring this up as I was almost tempted to buy that 58 Lincoln that they have. It's $1,950 and done is worth Ghibli money. I'm currently restoring a 1960 Lincoln Convertible, and I am doing all the work myself. I bought it for $10,000 as a running and driving car, and it wasn't rusty, just tired and worn out. It has 167,000 miles. Lincoln parts are expensive but probably not as bad as Maserati parts.... Probably.

Expenses so far:

Chrome and stainless $10,000. Combination of rechroming, and a few NOS pieces.
Paint supplies: $1,700
Engine machine work and parts $3,000
Transmission rebuild $1,000
Exhaust parts inc manifolds $1,500
Suspension inc springs and shocks $2,000
Brake system $1,700
Driveshaft parts $100
Tires $1,250
Carpets $600
Upholstery materials $1,000
Dash pad restoration $1,200
Interior stuff including gauges, radio, etc $2,000
New Hardware $1,000
Power steering system $750
Cooling system $900
Heater and AC system $3,000
Convertible top system $1,500
Convertible top $500
Weatherstripping $1,500
Fuel system $700
Misc paint $500
Glass $975
Cruise control unit rebuild $850 (only one guy has the parts and he doesn't sell them)

And I'm forgetting lots of little stuff. Point is I'm $40,000 in rebuilding this car. In parts. Not counting labor for a single penny. If I had a professional shop do this I could see another $60-80,000 in labor and I'm probably low.

Done this will be a $70,000-80,000 car and I bought it for $10,000.

My profit will be a labor rate of probably $9/hour.

Compared to a Ghibli I certainly have MUCH higher bright work costs but the other costs are probably comparable, I'd hate to think what Maserati engine machine work or engine parts cost. I doubt a Ghibli water pump is $150 to have rebuilt or $90 to have its fuel pump rebuilt.

The OP is doing an absolutely heroic job of saving this Ghibli, and his work is outstanding but he also bought the car for £12k in '03, that's a big part of this picture AND it's also one of how many original RHD Ghiblis?

I'm going to be tackling a huge restoration on my 62 Vauxhall PA Velox, but how many LHD ones exist? Hardly any.

If I wanted a nice PA and would be happy with RHD I'd buy a nice one in the UK for £9-10k and ship it over.

[Chad speed]

neutral 3 said:

Re Power steering , I well remember my late Dad saying that the steering was heavy on AM 115 100 , he used his one a lot around Londons West End ( 1973-75 ) so ime guessing that's where it was hard work. At speed though I would guess the non power steering Ghibli is the better car ?

The guy who bought her new had another earlier car, perhaps he didn't like PAS !

Your comments on power steering are interesting, contemporary reports thought the non PAS cars had heavy steering at low speed but good feel at anything above moderate speeds. The PAS cars were reported to be good at all speeds but I have never seen a comparison of the two. Its worth noting that while both systems use steering boxes the PAS was not merely a modification to the standard set-up. The non PAS car used a Burman box (I think) whilst the PAS car had a complete ZF set up and had the alternator moved to allow space for the PAS pump drive. Second hand PAS components do occasionally come up for sale but a complete system seems to be valued at over £6k! add to that rebuilding components and fitting its not to be undertaken lightly.
I have been toying with the idea of retro fitting an adjustable electrically assisted PAS unit as I think it could be completely hidden from view, however the lady of the house commented it would just be nice to get the car on the road!

[FWDRacer]

Chad speed said:

.....however the lady of the house commented it would just be nice to get the car on the road!

This is a reoccuring comment amongst partners of all car restorers. Wimmin' eh

[900T-R]

Electric power steering available off the shelf (including TüV if required):

http://www.ezpowersteering.nl/type/7/95/Maserati_G...

[Chad speed]

900T-R said:

Electric power steering available off the shelf (including TüV if required):

http://www.ezpowersteering.nl/type/7/95/Maserati_G...

Thanks for that Eric, not come across that before. I can only find one picture of the system fitted to a similar Maserati, a Mexico. Seems they insert the unit between the steering wheel and bulkhead meaning the nice cast aluminium column housing has to be modified. I was thinking of installing it in the engine bay where only the column shaft needs modification, or replacement. Interesting though, wonder if they do kits or supply and install only, very little technical or pricing info on the website.