Classics dwarfed by moderns

[lowdrag]

MrMoonyMan said:

lowdrag said:

Now a Honda S800 next to an S2000 perhaps?

Thanks for that. I always loved the S800 since I first saw those four tiny Keihin carbs on the engine outside Jenkin & Pursers in Portsmouth all those years back. A miracle of engineering in the time. Yes, one engine is 2.5 times bigger, but I love the photo!

[ajprice]

davepoth said:

But this go-around we have Insignias and Mondeos that nobody is buying because they can get a slightly smaller "premium" car for the same money.

Yes, I think the 3 series has been outselling the Mondeo for a while, probably history repeating of the 5 series outselling the Scorpio/Omega? And this time, as well as the small German option, there are the cars like small SUVs and small people carriers etc. So as it was that the big regular cars disappeared before, it's happening again but the alternative might be a 3 series or X1 / X3, Zafira or Qashqai if you're in the hills, got kids, or you want to be higher up and 'feel safer'. Part of it is the badge on the keyring, part of it is how useful the car is.

[ajprice]

To get this back to being a picture thread, here are a couple of Scirocco's

[mph]

ajprice said:

To get this back to being a picture thread, here are a couple of Scirocco's

The new Scirocco is 15 inches longer, 7 inches wider and 1200 pounds heavier than the original which kind of supports the original theme.

[Cledus Snow]

[427James]

300bhp/ton said:

Well to me I'd say the new F-Type has chunkier styling, this doesn't mean it's bigger.

In fact looking at the stats:

	Length	Wheelbase	Height	Weight
E-Type	105	184	51	1530kg
F-Type	103.2	176	51	1597kg

So the E-Type is longer and has longer wheelbase and they are the same height. In fact the F-Type is only bigger in one dimension - "width" (can't find proper stats for this, as I think the ones quoted include mirrors). Guessing 4 to 5" difference here. But the E-Type was particularly narrow even in it's day and when compared to it's peers from mainland Europe, America or even home grown rivals like Aston Martin.

Where did you get the weights from? Were 2 elephants in the car? The E-type (I own one) is sodding tiny and my manual says it weighs around 1250kgs. Thats 350 kgs difference or circa 30% of the weight of the car. I know this is right, because it doesn't need power steering and you can feel the weight of the car, plus the tin is extremely thin and there's nothing to make it heavy. I usually agree with most of what you say 300, but this is getting silly,

[Roy C]

427James said:

300bhp/ton said:

Well to me I'd say the new F-Type has chunkier styling, this doesn't mean it's bigger.

In fact looking at the stats:

	Length	Wheelbase	Height	Weight
E-Type	105	184	51	1530kg
F-Type	103.2	176	51	1597kg

So the E-Type is longer and has longer wheelbase and they are the same height. In fact the F-Type is only bigger in one dimension - "width" (can't find proper stats for this, as I think the ones quoted include mirrors). Guessing 4 to 5" difference here. But the E-Type was particularly narrow even in it's day and when compared to it's peers from mainland Europe, America or even home grown rivals like Aston Martin.

Where did you get the weights from? Were 2 elephants in the car? The E-type (I own one) is sodding tiny and my manual says it weighs around 1250kgs. Thats 350 kgs difference or circa 30% of the weight of the car. I know this is right, because it doesn't need power steering and you can feel the weight of the car, plus the tin is extremely thin and there's nothing to make it heavy. I usually agree with most of what you say 300, but this is getting silly,

I believe that's the weight of the heaviest E-type - the Series III V12 convertible.
Much bigger and heavier than the stylish original.

[900T-R]

Yep, also the overall length and wheelbase quoted are a dead giveaway.

[CDP]

ajprice said:

To get this back to being a picture thread, here are a couple of Scirocco's

I'd forgotten how elegant the original Scirocco was. It certainly makes the new car look dumpy.

[spoodler]

Well I don't know about all this market sector stuff but using a Herald as a daily driver we do manage to find more places to park than a lot of drivers of moderns...

Some great pic's on here that show the "essence" of the thread even if not "biblically" correct enough for some - more please.

[300bhp/ton]

427James said:

Where did you get the weights from? Were 2 elephants in the car? The E-type (I own one) is sodding tiny and my manual says it weighs around 1250kgs. Thats 350 kgs difference or circa 30% of the weight of the car. I know this is right, because it doesn't need power steering and you can feel the weight of the car, plus the tin is extremely thin and there's nothing to make it heavy. I usually agree with most of what you say 300, but this is getting silly,

Carfolio, take a look yourself if you want.

Yes I quoted a S3 as being the last E-Type I thought it was closer to the F-Type in a chronological sense and the direction the company took with such vehicles.

As for the manual, no idea, but British car makers did have a habit of lying about stats at this period of time so my hunch would be that it is either wrong or a dry weight maybe excluding some other parts.

[completetangent]

I thought the MX5 was small. Seems I need to rethink...

[evil len]

300bhp/ton said:

I'm saying the same class of car to do the same job is still pretty much the same size. Ignore the names. In the car makers model line up, the market position, the price and the target audience these cars are pitched pretty much the same.

I wouldnt have said that Fiesta and Escort were the same class of car was my point. To me Fiesta was always the "small" car, and Escord is more "mid" range.

[NotNormal]

300bhp/ton said:

Carfolio, take a look yourself if you want.

Yes I quoted a S3 as being the last E-Type I thought it was closer to the F-Type in a chronological sense and the direction the company took with such vehicles.

I expect in reality you trawled around to find the heaviest figures to support your flailing argument.

300bhp/ton said:

As for the manual, no idea, but British car makers did have a habit of lying about stats at this period of time so my hunch would be that it is either wrong or a dry weight maybe excluding some other parts.

So you are now accusing not only Jaguar but also the poster (who actually owns the car) liars because they contradict your statement.

Jeez you really don't want to admit your wrong do you

[300bhp/ton]

evil len said:

300bhp/ton said:

I'm saying the same class of car to do the same job is still pretty much the same size. Ignore the names. In the car makers model line up, the market position, the price and the target audience these cars are pitched pretty much the same.

I wouldnt have said that Fiesta and Escort were the same class of car was my point. To me Fiesta was always the "small" car, and Escord is more "mid" range.

But are you not basing that view purely on the name of the car and your association that it's small?

If the Fiesta Sedan was called Ford Mantrax would you then still say it's a small car in the same way you are associating 'Fiesta' with a small car?

[Agoogy]

300bhp/ton said:

evil len said:

300bhp/ton said:

I'm saying the same class of car to do the same job is still pretty much the same size. Ignore the names. In the car makers model line up, the market position, the price and the target audience these cars are pitched pretty much the same.

I wouldnt have said that Fiesta and Escort were the same class of car was my point. To me Fiesta was always the "small" car, and Escord is more "mid" range.

But are you not basing that view purely on the name of the car and your association that it's small?

If the Fiesta Sedan was called Ford Mantrax would you then still say it's a small car in the same way you are associating 'Fiesta' with a small car?

Back then, there was a small Fiesta and a mid range Escort
later a new Fiesta, slightly bigger was released and then a slightly larger Escort too
Then years later a new slightly larger Fiesta was made and slightly larger Escort added
and so on.... (in this case years later a cynical marketing campaign was unleashed to rid the public of potentially negative ideas of what an Escort represented and it was hence forth known as the Focus...and years later a slightly larger Focus was released...)
The comparison in how they had grown was then discussed on a car forum, along with random alternative pictures showing that big new cars were/are bigger than small old ones...

Edited by Agoogy on Wednesday 21st November 13:53

[minimoog]

My frog

[LotusOmega375D]

MrMoonyMan said:

Cool: they have special parking bays for humans too and I reckon he's definitely bigger than he used to be.

[900T-R]

minimoog said:

A frog and a pig, yesterday

[iSore]

I recently saw an XJS in a car park next to an E61 Touring. Whilst not dwarfed by the BMW, the Jag did look a lot smaller than I remembered them.
I read recently that a Big Healey is smaller and lighter than a Z3. Blimey!

The Sprogeyed Fright looks great btw, especially next to the bloated French Hamster. :-)