Help identifying a strange little car

[Bebee]

ecotec said:

harry miller said:

I think it could be a Fiat 1100ES from around 1950.

http://www.zuckerfabrik24.de/fiat/pics/1100ES_1a.j...

Closest so far I think

I agree, although there is a front vent on the UFO car

[Fastdruid]

mikeveal said:

The mystery car has a bonnet scoop and the HBR5 doesn't.

I'm not 100% sure its a scoop. May just be a large badge.

[ReaderScars]

Bebee said:

ecotec said:

harry miller said:

I think it could be a Fiat 1100ES from around 1950.

http://www.zuckerfabrik24.de/fiat/pics/1100ES_1a.j...

Closest so far I think

I agree, although there is a front vent on the UFO car

But there's quite a difference between the overhangs - check the distance between the front of the front tyres and the headlight - the UFO has a much bigger overhang.

Close but it's not the Fiat.

[FourWheelDrift]

mikeveal said:

FourWheelDrift said:

It's a Deutsch-Bonnet HBR5, already mentioned on previous page grey car 8 posts up.

But the HBR5 has scooped headlights and the mystery car doesn't.
The mystery car has quarter lights in the doors and the HBR5 doesn't.
The mystery car has a bonnet scoop and the HBR5 doesn't.
The HBR5 has a vent at the bottom of the A pillar and the mystery car doesn't.
Where the door meets the A pillar and roof, the HBR5 is very angular and the mystery car has a flowing curve.
There is clearly a portly beret wearing man looking at the mystery car, but no beret wearing man in the picture of the HBR5.

So I don't think the mystery car is an HBR5.

I was not suggesting it was the mystery car I was replying to the post before mine asking what the blue car was and pointing out that someone had already suggested it. I have since quoted the post because my reply dropped onto a new page.

[Dr Interceptor]

A bit late to the thread, can't believe its still unidentified.

I was thinking it might be a UMAP 425 or 500, little Citroen based Coupes - they had the squared off rear arches. But I don't think they had quarterlights on the front windows.

[vixen1700]

Dr Interceptor said:

I was thinking it might be a UMAP 425 or 500, little Citroen based Coupes - they had the squared off rear arches. But I don't think they had quarterlights on the front windows.

Good call on the front, but can't find a picture of one with that roofline.

[Mr2Mike]

ecotec said:

harry miller said:

I think it could be a Fiat 1100ES from around 1950.

http://www.zuckerfabrik24.de/fiat/pics/1100ES_1a.j...

Closest so far I think

The Dyna is closer in overall body shape IMO, even though it's not correct. Extend the A pillar down and look at where it intercepts the edge of the body - the Fiat clearly has a longer front end and less front overhang then the car in the OP's pic.

Dr Interceptor said:

A bit late to the thread, can't believe its still unidentified.

I was thinking it might be a UMAP 425 or 500, little Citroen based Coupes - they had the squared off rear arches. But I don't think they had quarterlights on the front windows.

All the pics I can find show them having a very defined saloon type boot rather than a fastback style body.

The thread has certainly delivered in making me more aware of some lovely looking cars from the 50's.

Edited by Mr2Mike on Friday 27th June 12:36

[Dr Interceptor]

vixen1700 said:

Dr Interceptor said:

I was thinking it might be a UMAP 425 or 500, little Citroen based Coupes - they had the squared off rear arches. But I don't think they had quarterlights on the front windows.

Good call on the front, but can't find a picture of one with that roofline.

No... frustrating isn't it. My only other stab would be a special based on the Simca 9, like this 1954 Simca 9 Sport Figoni

[BarbaricAvatar]

I've messed about with the luminousity to bring out some of the features a bit more:



There seems to be a growth of some kind on the bonnet, behind the vent.

Also i think these are the key sections of the picture:



1. Large oval roof, thick A-pillar and front quarter window.
2. Very thick C-pillar and non-wraparound rear window.
3. Flattened rear wheel arch.
4. Vertical rear light cluster.

Every suggestion so far has had one or two of these features, but never all four together

Also i think the front is a bit deformed due to probable accident damage, so we shouldn't use this as an identifying feature, unless all 4 of the above criteria are met.
-
The Simca's mentioned all seem fairly similar, but the C-pillar is always wrong on those cars. Has there ever been a collaboration between Porsche and Simca?

[Dr Interceptor]

The growth on the bonnet looks like a crease to me, possibly related to the front damage... so I wouldn't bank on that as a feature.

It's that C-Pillar that's frustrating... it's like someone took a Simca 9 and grafted on a 356 lid.

[JuniorD]

The headlights mounted to the grille, i.e., separate from the wings?

This is a good one, I thought it might be Denzel 1500 Coupe but higly probably not.

[Bebee]

If it's not a vent then it might be rear engined, the man might be hiding side vents

[ReaderScars]

Maybe worth bearing in mind, we're looking down on it from an elevated position - so the roof may look thicker than it actually is/was.

In addition, does the overall bonnet height look low in comparison to what you'd expect from a front engined car?

If so that would add weight to the rear engined argument/supposition.

[Dr Interceptor]

ReaderScars said:

Maybe worth bearing in mind, we're looking down on it from an elevated position - so the roof may look thicker than it actually is/was.

In addition, does the overall bonnet height look low in comparison to what you'd expect from a front engined car?

If so that would add weight to the rear engined argument/supposition.

I think we can ignore the front end to a degree... there's a change in colour shade at the top of the front wing, so it might well be that the front end shunt has caused the whole front end to drop - a bit like an elephant has sat on the front of it.

As highlighted above, its the roof line, and rear arch that we need to match up.

[rolando]

Bebee said:

...the man might be hiding side vents

Can someone politely ask him to move?

[Boosted LS1]

Mr2Mike said:

Riley Blue said:

Allemano Crepaldi Panhard Dyna X86 Coupe.

Edited by Riley Blue on Thursday 26th June 20:47

There are too many significant differences for it to be a Dyna:

There are no quarterlights on the Dyna.
The grill/vent on the Dyna's wing is not present in the unknown car.
The front wheel arch on the Dyna is squared off at the top but totally round on the unknown car.
The Dyna's rear arch comes much further up exposing the tyres but is almost down to the hub caps on the unknown car making the rear quarters look more slabby.
The C pillars on the unknown car are huge great things but they look quite slim on the Dyna.
The front edge of the bonnet on the unknown car appears to end above the headlights rather than curve down to the bumper.

As someone else mentioned, it wouldn't surprise me if it was a coach-built body, which would probably have been fabricated from aluminium alloy back then.

The bonnet vent looks similar though. Maybe the cars share some pedigree.

[Bebee]

Boosted LS1 said:

Mr2Mike said:

Riley Blue said:

Allemano Crepaldi Panhard Dyna X86 Coupe.

Edited by Riley Blue on Thursday 26th June 20:47

There are too many significant differences for it to be a Dyna:

There are no quarterlights on the Dyna.
The grill/vent on the Dyna's wing is not present in the unknown car.
The front wheel arch on the Dyna is squared off at the top but totally round on the unknown car.
The Dyna's rear arch comes much further up exposing the tyres but is almost down to the hub caps on the unknown car making the rear quarters look more slabby.
The C pillars on the unknown car are huge great things but they look quite slim on the Dyna.
The front edge of the bonnet on the unknown car appears to end above the headlights rather than curve down to the bumper.

As someone else mentioned, it wouldn't surprise me if it was a coach-built body, which would probably have been fabricated from aluminium alloy back then.

The bonnet vent looks similar though. Maybe the cars share some pedigree.

Also if you look closer at the wheels they're almost the same?

[HarryW]

What about a U.M.A.P. they were plastic, so easily modified or made to order?

The 425/500SM have similar overall lines perhaps it's a 'special' with a more 'fast back' on it?

[DavePieman]

Been discussing this with a fellow car anorak and he provided this link, closest match I've seen so far: http://www.coachbuild.com/index.php?option=com_gal...

Wheels definitely suggest a Panhard/Dyna of some sort, or maybe a DB.

[FourWheelDrift]

It's not, but a 1954 Simca 9 is the closest I can get to it.





The one above is a restored model so in pristine condition unlike the mystery car.

4 reasons why it isn't.

1) C Pillar too thin
2) gap between front wheel arch and door line too long
3) Front wings and rear wings too flat, mystery car wings go down. Unless it's very badly damaged.
4) roof-line too curved, mystery car roof-line is a little longer,


I'm all searched out.