British Leyland

[Ray100]

A very different era back then with some truly horrendous horror stories of Unions & Political interference. A good read about the History from the Nuffield days right towards the end can be found in Jeff Daniels book 'British Leyland,the truth about the cars',ISBN 201117355560.
Here's my 1970 Rover P5B Coupe;



Rumour has it that towards the end of the production the spare parts of front wings etc were sent out to Dealers that didn't fit too well because of the wear on the original presses & they were told NOT to send them back. Having said that i love my P5B Coupe,it's just like being inside a Gentleman's Club with plenty of leather & wood and the doors close with a satisfying clunk,i just don't have enough time to enjoy it.

[V8 Fettler]

XJ Flyer said:

As for Triumph as usual it took enthusiastic owners to build the cars that BL should have been building when it had the chance.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsfc8IRw5Y4

Old Triumphs are for grumpy old gits

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyVAVdqyt-A

[Yertis]

V8 Fettler said:

Old Triumphs are for grumpy old gits

[Evo77]

My Grandad used to have a Kermit green allegro., you could hear it approaching from a mile away. It was foul beyond belief. Then he got a rover and after his death, my uncle drove it until it was literally in bits, clinging on as they would as former engineers at Leyland motors..as did my grandads dad and most of the family where it all began, back in 1898/89. Why they were so loyal to Leyland, I don't know. My uncle said the after sales and care was at best non existent, they were handed plenty of bail outs yet failed to spot potential rivals, which my uncle said was catastrophic given what we know now and the way Stokes gallavanted about Europe.

[anonymous-user]

I currently own three BL cars (down from five last year), and might be about to get a BL van.

This article has some interesting reflections on what BL could have become. See also AR Online, passim.

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/triumph-dolomite...

[johnxjsc1985]

The problem with BL Cars is finding them in good condition. I have had a terrible itch for a Triumph 2.5 pi estate for years but they hardly ever come up . The TR8 are again rarer than hens teeth..
Love the Toledo's and Dolomites along with the the Austin's 1100,1300 and 1800's.

[anonymous-user]

I suggest that, nowadays, BL cars in good condition are not so rare, although some types are very rare (2.5 PIs and TR8s were respectively rare and super rare when new and thus are even rarer when old).

The real rotters have died. The good ones have remained - cars that have been carefully preserved from new, or have been restored and improved. My Rover SD1 is very original and mostly unrestored, and was a good one from new. My Dolomite Sprint has been rebuilt, and may be better now than it was in 1975. My Jag XJS is still a project.

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 18th April 23:28

[a8hex]

johnxjsc1985 said:

The problem with BL Cars is finding them in good condition. .

I think the main issue was that that was true back in period when they were new.

[Plinth]

Breadvan72 said:

I suggest that, nowadays, BL cars in good condition are not so rare, although some types are very rare (2.5 PIs and TR8s were respectively rare and super rare when new and thus are even rarer when old).

The real rotters have died. The good ones have remained - cars that have been carefully preserved from new, or have been restored and improved. My Rover SD1 is very original and mostly unrestored, and was a good one from new. My Dolomite Sprint has been rebuilt, and may be better now than it was in 1975. My Jag XJS is still a project.

Edited by Breadvan72 on Tuesday 18th April 23:28

Inspired by this thread I have just had a quick look through a 1977 Leyland Cars catalogue – memory lane – I would have been 9 years old at the time it was issued.

Some of the cars I would consider owning – Mini, Dolomite, Spitfire, MGB, Midget, TR7, SD1, Range Rover, XJS, XJ, Daimler.

Not so keen on Maxi, Princess, Marina* and Allegro.

As has been previously mentioned – clearly a lot of inter-brand and sector rivalry, which probably didn’t help….

• I remember reading in a 1970’s issue of Motorsport that BL “Special Lunatic Dept” fitted a V8 into a Marina – God knows why – but I WOULD have one of those….

[williamp]

Cant find that, but did find this

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/...

Remember the hot marina had a red stripe on the front gril. Copied by the VW GOLF GTI of all things...

They have an excellent archive by the way. Have lost hours in there...

[anonymous-user]

Princesses and Ambassadors aren't as bad as you might think. Marinas are just not very good, but they and Allegros have been discovered by hipsters and so are becoming expensive. I know that I aways say that MGBs were and are useless, but I'm going to say that MGBs were and are useless. MG Midgets are good.

[a8hex]

Plinth said:

• I remember reading in a 1970’s issue of Motorsport that BL “Special Lunatic Dept” fitted a V8 into a Marina – God knows why –

Wasn't having a death wish part of corporate policy?

[anonymous-user]

There is a recently (ish) published book about BL that is worth a look.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/British-Leyland-M...


Also, words from the man himself -


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Back-Brink-Sir-Michael-Ed...

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 19th April 07:49

[Plinth]

a8hex said:

Plinth said:

• I remember reading in a 1970’s issue of Motorsport that BL “Special Lunatic Dept” fitted a V8 into a Marina – God knows why –

Wasn't having a death wish part of corporate policy?

To save me going mad looking through a huge pile of Motorsport mags, I did a quick Wiki check and found this...

"In 1974 Foden commissioned a Rover V8-engined Marina to compete in the London-Sahara-Munich rally. This stormed through several stages before suffering rear-axle failure in the desert. The rear axle had been the only part obtained from a non-BL source."

[anonymous-user]

There was some quality engineering within BL, and they could build things well when they tried. Lack of consistency was a huge problem. The German car builders found ways to be consistent. Note that in Germany unions were powerful in the 70s and 80s, so it's not all about unions.

Nowadays even some German cars have classic BL build quality. Modern 3 Series BMWs appear to be built as disposable mass market budget products, and fall apart accordingly. Every fker in the World has a 320D these days, and they are not exactly ultimate driving machines.

It is a bit sad that people such as James May who should and probably do know better join in the chorus of pub banter to the effect that every single BL car was dire.

[a8hex]

Breadvan72 said:

There was some quality engineering within BL, and they could build things well when they tried. Lack of consistency was a huge problem. The German car builders found ways to be consistent. Note that in Germany unions were powerful in the 70s and 80s, so it's not all about unions.

John Egan's book on saving Jaguar describes the situation quite well.
But a chronic lack of investment went back a lot earlier than the 70s, even in the hay days of the 50s they never spent enough on investing in the future.

Breadvan72 said:

Nowadays even some German cars have classic BL build quality. Modern 3 Series BMWs appear to be built as disposable mass market budget products, and fall apart accordingly. Every fker in the World has a 320D these days, and they are not exactly ultimate driving machines.

My theory was that when BMW bought the remains of BL Mercedes bought Lucas. It would be an easy way to explain a lot of the problems with LadyB8's first Merc, although that wouldn't explain the rust problems.

Breadvan72 said:

It is a bit sad that people such as James May who should and probably do know better join in the chorus of pub banter to the effect that every single BL car was dire.

Yes there was some great engineering let down by shoddy execution.

[anonymous-user]

Lucas ended up being owned by Mr Singh of Euro Car Parts. I was once involved in a case about the final death of Lucas. This was sad for me, as Lucas was where my dad started in car world, and without the benign support of Lucas as an employer he would have remained a bloke with spanners on the line. I might have ended up in a drawing office or as a junior manager somewhere, but would probably not have made it to a first tier university and a swanky professional job, and wouldn't have to bh and moan about how much it costs to renew my Glyndebourne subscription every year. That was the 60s and 70s, when there was still such a thing as social mobility, and the British car industry played its part in that sort of thing.

Mr Singh, by the way, is a very pleasant man and not a crook, despite what people say about him.

[anonymous-user]

Lack of investment was a thing in British industry. Always looking for the dividend and the quick buck. Rarely taking the long view. British banking is all about the fast raid and quick getaway. Again, rarely taking the long view.

[55palfers]

Joseph Lucas that brings back some memories.

Both my Father and Uncle worked for Lucas. They did permanent nights at Shaftmoor Lane during the late 50s and 60s making fuel pumps for Blue Streak.

My Uncle went there following demob in about 1947 and worked until the early 70s when he retired. Dad joined him in about 1958 but left after a couple of years to work for Bournville Trust and luxuriate in some daylight.

As to BL cars, being a Birmingham lad, I had quite a few school friends who went to “The Austin” at Longbridge. Therefore I drove many fine used examples of the marque, due mainly to the seemingly endless supply of OE spares that changed hands for pennies.

My last BL bolide was a red Austin Ambassador 2200 HL (TOB 350Y). Supremely comfortable, magic carpet ride, beige velour nirvana of a machine. My first car to have electric windows even. It did however have one interesting feature that defeated the battalion of skilled mechanics I had used for years.

You’d park up, lock it, walk away and lovingly glance backwards to drink in the brave wedgie loveliness and generally admire the craftsmanship only to find the engine still running! No matter how many new plugs, leads rotor arms, coils and dizzys it had, the running on was pronounced incurable and it got traded for a Sierra I think.

Does anyone go to Cofton Park for “Pride of Longbridge”? Some groovy BL stuff there.

http://www.classicshowsuk.co.uk/classic-car-show-e...


Sadly this year’s show has come and gone, but worth a look next year perhaps.

[Shezbo]

Breadvan72 said:

There was some quality engineering within BL, and they could build things well when they tried. Lack of consistency was a huge problem. The German car builders found ways to be consistent. Note that in Germany unions were powerful in the 70s and 80s, so it's not all about unions.

Nowadays even some German cars have classic BL build quality. Modern 3 Series BMWs appear to be built as disposable mass market budget products, and fall apart accordingly. Every fker in the World has a 320D these days, and they are not exactly ultimate driving machines.

It is a bit sad that people such as James May who should and probably do know better join in the chorus of pub banter to the effect that every single BL car was dire.

Sorry cannot agree with the 320d BMW statement....and any relationship with BL build quality?

I cannot recall my mates 3 Series breaking down xx number of times like Dad's new 1750 Maxi in 1975, or seeing a 3 series have rotten front wings when 2 years old like mum's Mini Clubman.....

This is NOT a sweeping statement "On the whole, most BL products were rubbish - in terms of build quality (NOT design but build quality)"