British Leyland
Discussion
Shezbo said:
Sorry cannot agree with the 320d BMW statement....and any relationship with BL build quality?
I cannot recall my mates 3 Series breaking down xx number of times like Dad's new 1750 Maxi in 1975, or seeing a 3 series have rotten front wings when 2 years old like mum's Mini Clubman.....
This is NOT a sweeping statement "On the whole, most BL products were rubbish - in terms of build quality (NOT design but build quality)"
build quality for BL depended very much on which day of the week it was or whether a strike was imminent or not. I suspect that like the XJS the "survivors" now are decent Cars so even your 1975 Maxi is probably better now then when it left the Factory. My dad worked on the TR7/8 in Speke Liverpool the industrial relations there are stuff of legend meanwhile the Japanese sent Cars over that actually started every morning.I cannot recall my mates 3 Series breaking down xx number of times like Dad's new 1750 Maxi in 1975, or seeing a 3 series have rotten front wings when 2 years old like mum's Mini Clubman.....
This is NOT a sweeping statement "On the whole, most BL products were rubbish - in terms of build quality (NOT design but build quality)"
Shezbo said:
I cannot recall my mates 3 Series breaking down xx number of times like Dad's new 1750 Maxi in 1975, or seeing a 3 series have rotten front wings when 2 years old like mum's Mini Clubman.....
All cars broke down and rusted in the 1970s. Fact. It was the arrival of the Japanese cars that changed that, not the Germans.
johnxjsc1985 said:
Shezbo said:
Sorry cannot agree with the 320d BMW statement....and any relationship with BL build quality?
I cannot recall my mates 3 Series breaking down xx number of times like Dad's new 1750 Maxi in 1975, or seeing a 3 series have rotten front wings when 2 years old like mum's Mini Clubman.....
This is NOT a sweeping statement "On the whole, most BL products were rubbish - in terms of build quality (NOT design but build quality)"
build quality for BL depended very much on which day of the week it was or whether a strike was imminent or not. I suspect that like the XJS the "survivors" now are decent Cars so even your 1975 Maxi is probably better now then when it left the Factory. My dad worked on the TR7/8 in Speke Liverpool the industrial relations there are stuff of legend meanwhile the Japanese sent Cars over that actually started every morning.I cannot recall my mates 3 Series breaking down xx number of times like Dad's new 1750 Maxi in 1975, or seeing a 3 series have rotten front wings when 2 years old like mum's Mini Clubman.....
This is NOT a sweeping statement "On the whole, most BL products were rubbish - in terms of build quality (NOT design but build quality)"
We can take the Mick out of BL products as much as we like but seeing any survivors at shows these days or out on the roads perks me up no end. I pass an early Mk2 Triumph 2000 on my way to work everyday which still looks distinctive and very stylish.
I have owned several over the years in no particular order .
A mini 7
A morris 1100 that had MG1300 engine carbs and box .
Several heralds
A triumph vitess 1600
Morris 1800S ,a road going quick sofa
Mini 1000 tweeked to 70bhp
Rover SD1,loads of fun ,did some outstanding high speed runs in that car and big enough for two sleeping bags with the seats laid flat .
Jag xj6 sport ,loved but sooo cramped .
Maestro VDP 1600 a one owner 32000 mile bargain that I sold on for 7 times what I paid for it .
A mini 7
A morris 1100 that had MG1300 engine carbs and box .
Several heralds
A triumph vitess 1600
Morris 1800S ,a road going quick sofa
Mini 1000 tweeked to 70bhp
Rover SD1,loads of fun ,did some outstanding high speed runs in that car and big enough for two sleeping bags with the seats laid flat .
Jag xj6 sport ,loved but sooo cramped .
Maestro VDP 1600 a one owner 32000 mile bargain that I sold on for 7 times what I paid for it .
My Dad spent 25yrs working as a press tool engineer for Pressed Steel Fisher at Castle Bromwich until he was made redundant in the early 80's. I was only 10 at the time so didn't know the full ins and outs but as they were away from the main Rover plant at Longbridge I think they avoided the worst of the stoppages, but I remember Red Robbo being an ever present in the Birmingham Evening Mail at the time.
My dad was very much a supporter of the 'Buy British' campaign of the time, so we had a Triumph TR4A, a Triumph 2.5 Pi and a Princess 2.2 HLS. All of them were reliable cars - I only ever recall my dad having to change the exhaust rear section on the 2.5 Pi at 10yrs old, nothing unusual for a car of that age then or now.
He was gutted to be made redundant, but also as a 'white collar' employee was frustrated as the constant stoppages 'on the track', as it was known. Automation was coming in a big way (I remember seeing robotic paint spraying machines in the Jaguar Plant as Castle Brom as a kid on an open day and being utterly amazed) but the Unions fought against it every step of the way.
My Dad spent the remainder of his career doing tooling for a few consultancies and then 20yrs with LDV Vans - they were great under Dutch ownership and very flexible at building a whole array of different van types off the basic K2/210 chassis', but just didn't have sufficient investment in a new model to make it successful for the long term. He made a number of lifelong friends at the LDV plant in Washwood Heath, all now retired and many dying, I know he shed a tear when they pulled that factory down, as it was part of the British motor industry gone, never to return.
My dad was very much a supporter of the 'Buy British' campaign of the time, so we had a Triumph TR4A, a Triumph 2.5 Pi and a Princess 2.2 HLS. All of them were reliable cars - I only ever recall my dad having to change the exhaust rear section on the 2.5 Pi at 10yrs old, nothing unusual for a car of that age then or now.
He was gutted to be made redundant, but also as a 'white collar' employee was frustrated as the constant stoppages 'on the track', as it was known. Automation was coming in a big way (I remember seeing robotic paint spraying machines in the Jaguar Plant as Castle Brom as a kid on an open day and being utterly amazed) but the Unions fought against it every step of the way.
My Dad spent the remainder of his career doing tooling for a few consultancies and then 20yrs with LDV Vans - they were great under Dutch ownership and very flexible at building a whole array of different van types off the basic K2/210 chassis', but just didn't have sufficient investment in a new model to make it successful for the long term. He made a number of lifelong friends at the LDV plant in Washwood Heath, all now retired and many dying, I know he shed a tear when they pulled that factory down, as it was part of the British motor industry gone, never to return.
PurpleTurtle said:
My Dad spent 25yrs working as a press tool engineer for Pressed Steel Fisher at Castle Bromwich until he was made redundant in the early 80's. I was only 10 at the time so didn't know the full ins and outs but as they were away from the main Rover plant at Longbridge I think they avoided the worst of the stoppages, but I remember Red Robbo being an ever present in the Birmingham Evening Mail at the time.
My dad was very much a supporter of the 'Buy British' campaign of the time, so we had a Triumph TR4A, a Triumph 2.5 Pi and a Princess 2.2 HLS. All of them were reliable cars - I only ever recall my dad having to change the exhaust rear section on the 2.5 Pi at 10yrs old, nothing unusual for a car of that age then or now.
He was gutted to be made redundant, but also as a 'white collar' employee was frustrated as the constant stoppages 'on the track', as it was known. Automation was coming in a big way (I remember seeing robotic paint spraying machines in the Jaguar Plant as Castle Brom as a kid on an open day and being utterly amazed) but the Unions fought against it every step of the way.
My Dad spent the remainder of his career doing tooling for a few consultancies and then 20yrs with LDV Vans - they were great under Dutch ownership and very flexible at building a whole array of different van types off the basic K2/210 chassis', but just didn't have sufficient investment in a new model to make it successful for the long term. He made a number of lifelong friends at the LDV plant in Washwood Heath, all now retired and many dying, I know he shed a tear when they pulled that factory down, as it was part of the British motor industry gone, never to return.
Probably something I shall regret owning up to here, but I represented the landlord while SAIC removed the Maxus line and then I project managed the demolition and site clearance. The sense of camaraderie among the few remaining staff when I first attended site was so tangible, as was the stunned disbelief at how things unfolded. Many of the guys had decades of BL service under their belts, and were clearly badly served by management and successive owners. There were tales, I don't know how true, of VW being interested (before the Russians, possibly earlier) in the plant (the paint shop was state of the art apparently) but the deal foundered on management greed and self-interest, leaving LDV to its fate. I was merely an undertaker, with the fate already sealed, but as a car enthusiast and serial BL owner years before I felt we were destroying history. My dad was very much a supporter of the 'Buy British' campaign of the time, so we had a Triumph TR4A, a Triumph 2.5 Pi and a Princess 2.2 HLS. All of them were reliable cars - I only ever recall my dad having to change the exhaust rear section on the 2.5 Pi at 10yrs old, nothing unusual for a car of that age then or now.
He was gutted to be made redundant, but also as a 'white collar' employee was frustrated as the constant stoppages 'on the track', as it was known. Automation was coming in a big way (I remember seeing robotic paint spraying machines in the Jaguar Plant as Castle Brom as a kid on an open day and being utterly amazed) but the Unions fought against it every step of the way.
My Dad spent the remainder of his career doing tooling for a few consultancies and then 20yrs with LDV Vans - they were great under Dutch ownership and very flexible at building a whole array of different van types off the basic K2/210 chassis', but just didn't have sufficient investment in a new model to make it successful for the long term. He made a number of lifelong friends at the LDV plant in Washwood Heath, all now retired and many dying, I know he shed a tear when they pulled that factory down, as it was part of the British motor industry gone, never to return.
[quote=CharlesdeGaulle]
All cars broke down and rusted in the 1970s. Fact.
Mk1 VW Golf - did neither, compared to said (rusty) Mini and had (still has) super reliability, Japan built cars in the 1970's that BL service engineers must have had nightmares over...they were so good.
I totally agree SOME BL products look great I have owned 6 of them, but boy were they "unfinished as a product and poorly built".....that's why BL ultimately died.
All cars broke down and rusted in the 1970s. Fact.
Mk1 VW Golf - did neither, compared to said (rusty) Mini and had (still has) super reliability, Japan built cars in the 1970's that BL service engineers must have had nightmares over...they were so good.
I totally agree SOME BL products look great I have owned 6 of them, but boy were they "unfinished as a product and poorly built".....that's why BL ultimately died.
Stegel said:
PurpleTurtle said:
My Dad spent 25yrs working as a press tool engineer for Pressed Steel Fisher at Castle Bromwich until he was made redundant in the early 80's. I was only 10 at the time so didn't know the full ins and outs but as they were away from the main Rover plant at Longbridge I think they avoided the worst of the stoppages, but I remember Red Robbo being an ever present in the Birmingham Evening Mail at the time.
My dad was very much a supporter of the 'Buy British' campaign of the time, so we had a Triumph TR4A, a Triumph 2.5 Pi and a Princess 2.2 HLS. All of them were reliable cars - I only ever recall my dad having to change the exhaust rear section on the 2.5 Pi at 10yrs old, nothing unusual for a car of that age then or now.
He was gutted to be made redundant, but also as a 'white collar' employee was frustrated as the constant stoppages 'on the track', as it was known. Automation was coming in a big way (I remember seeing robotic paint spraying machines in the Jaguar Plant as Castle Brom as a kid on an open day and being utterly amazed) but the Unions fought against it every step of the way.
My Dad spent the remainder of his career doing tooling for a few consultancies and then 20yrs with LDV Vans - they were great under Dutch ownership and very flexible at building a whole array of different van types off the basic K2/210 chassis', but just didn't have sufficient investment in a new model to make it successful for the long term. He made a number of lifelong friends at the LDV plant in Washwood Heath, all now retired and many dying, I know he shed a tear when they pulled that factory down, as it was part of the British motor industry gone, never to return.
Probably something I shall regret owning up to here, but I represented the landlord while SAIC removed the Maxus line and then I project managed the demolition and site clearance. The sense of camaraderie among the few remaining staff when I first attended site was so tangible, as was the stunned disbelief at how things unfolded. Many of the guys had decades of BL service under their belts, and were clearly badly served by management and successive owners. There were tales, I don't know how true, of VW being interested (before the Russians, possibly earlier) in the plant (the paint shop was state of the art apparently) but the deal foundered on management greed and self-interest, leaving LDV to its fate. I was merely an undertaker, with the fate already sealed, but as a car enthusiast and serial BL owner years before I felt we were destroying history. My dad was very much a supporter of the 'Buy British' campaign of the time, so we had a Triumph TR4A, a Triumph 2.5 Pi and a Princess 2.2 HLS. All of them were reliable cars - I only ever recall my dad having to change the exhaust rear section on the 2.5 Pi at 10yrs old, nothing unusual for a car of that age then or now.
He was gutted to be made redundant, but also as a 'white collar' employee was frustrated as the constant stoppages 'on the track', as it was known. Automation was coming in a big way (I remember seeing robotic paint spraying machines in the Jaguar Plant as Castle Brom as a kid on an open day and being utterly amazed) but the Unions fought against it every step of the way.
My Dad spent the remainder of his career doing tooling for a few consultancies and then 20yrs with LDV Vans - they were great under Dutch ownership and very flexible at building a whole array of different van types off the basic K2/210 chassis', but just didn't have sufficient investment in a new model to make it successful for the long term. He made a number of lifelong friends at the LDV plant in Washwood Heath, all now retired and many dying, I know he shed a tear when they pulled that factory down, as it was part of the British motor industry gone, never to return.
Breadvan72 said:
There was some quality engineering within BL, and they could build things well when they tried. Lack of consistency was a huge problem. The German car builders found ways to be consistent. Note that in Germany unions were powerful in the 70s and 80s, so it's not all about unions.
Nowadays even some German cars have classic BL build quality. Modern 3 Series BMWs appear to be built as disposable mass market budget products, and fall apart accordingly. Every f
ker in the World has a 320D these days, and they are not exactly ultimate driving machines.
It is a bit sad that people such as James May who should and probably do know better join in the chorus of pub banter to the effect that every single BL car was dire.
Design was good, but spread too thinly and eroded by cost cutting and not-invented-here mentality. Agree about the consistency,Nowadays even some German cars have classic BL build quality. Modern 3 Series BMWs appear to be built as disposable mass market budget products, and fall apart accordingly. Every f
ker in the World has a 320D these days, and they are not exactly ultimate driving machines.It is a bit sad that people such as James May who should and probably do know better join in the chorus of pub banter to the effect that every single BL car was dire.
German unions were strong, but weren't as political as ours, so didn't withdraw labour for anti government reasons that management failed to cope with.
My dad had a Triumph 2.5pi Mk2 - YYL367H which was fast comfortable and reliable (apart from the fuel pump trip switch which would trip at random, but easily reset), followed by a Rover 3500S - MVB305L equally good apart from the slightly dodgy snap oversteer. And why can I remember those reg. numbers?
He was going to replace the Rover with another one, they had become expensive and stupid delivery times thanks to prolonged strikes, so ended up with a boring but available Volvo. (or possibly Audi), can't remember the order.
Decent cars, spotty build quality, suicidal unions, weak management and government f
kwittery, it had to end in tears. The BMW/Mercedes/Audi/VW white goods won in the end.eldar said:
Design was good, but spread too thinly and eroded by cost cutting and not-invented-here mentality. Agree about the consistency,
German unions were strong, but weren't as political as ours, so didn't withdraw labour for anti government reasons that management failed to cope with.
My dad had a Triumph 2.5pi Mk2 - YYL367H which was fast comfortable and reliable (apart from the fuel pump trip switch which would trip at random, but easily reset), followed by a Rover 3500S - MVB305L equally good apart from the slightly dodgy snap oversteer. And why can I remember those reg. numbers?
He was going to replace the Rover with another one, they had become expensive and stupid delivery times thanks to prolonged strikes, so ended up with a boring but available Volvo. (or possibly Audi), can't remember the order.
Decent cars, spotty build quality, suicidal unions, weak management and government fkwittery, it had to end in tears. The BMW/Mercedes/Audi/VW white goods won in the end.
I have to one day own a 2.5 pi estate or a 2.5s even a Saloon. German unions were strong, but weren't as political as ours, so didn't withdraw labour for anti government reasons that management failed to cope with.
My dad had a Triumph 2.5pi Mk2 - YYL367H which was fast comfortable and reliable (apart from the fuel pump trip switch which would trip at random, but easily reset), followed by a Rover 3500S - MVB305L equally good apart from the slightly dodgy snap oversteer. And why can I remember those reg. numbers?
He was going to replace the Rover with another one, they had become expensive and stupid delivery times thanks to prolonged strikes, so ended up with a boring but available Volvo. (or possibly Audi), can't remember the order.
Decent cars, spotty build quality, suicidal unions, weak management and government f
kwittery, it had to end in tears. The BMW/Mercedes/Audi/VW white goods won in the end.
johnxjsc1985 said:
The problem with BL Cars is finding them in good condition. I have had a terrible itch for a Triumph 2.5 pi estate for years but they hardly ever come up .
A good mate of my Dad had one back in the late 1970's, when my Dad had a 2000 Estate, and my Dad so wanted a PI estate but struggled to find one even back then, so I can imagine there can't be many left now at all........!!!Instead, Dad eventually bought a Tahiti Blue 'R' reg 2500S estate around 1981-ish to replace the 2000, but unfortunately, it turned out to be a real dog, but he loved it all the same despite the fact it clearly had been 'clocked' and we eventually found after he had been lightly t-boned, that the inner sills, bottom of the b-posts etc had long dissolved, which probably explained why it 'crabbed' down the road........!!
Family BL cars over the years included, Dad's 2 x Triumphs, and my Mum had 2 x Mini's, and I've owned a Mini and a Marina 1.8TC Coupe.
Can't say, I'm a fan by any stretch, although, if I was in the position to have a significant multi-car collection, it would definitely include a Rover 3500 P6
Here is my 1100, great little car. Out of the various classics I have this is the one surprisingly that gets the most interest when I'm out and about
http://s200.photobucket.com/user/stu67photos/media...
http://s200.photobucket.com/user/stu67photos/media...
stu67 said:
Here is my 1100, great little car. Out of the various classics I have this is the one surprisingly that gets the most interest when I'm out and about
http://s200.photobucket.com/user/stu67photos/media...
Brings back memories. My mother had an 1100 in white, 3 doors. We moved miles from anywhere, so 1100 was my only ticket to freedom. Disk brakes! (on the front.) It convinced me, age 17 that any car was better than taking the bus so I would have settled for an Allegro. http://s200.photobucket.com/user/stu67photos/media...
Always had the hots for a Maxi, because 'you could sleep in them. ' Mother used to take the interior light bulb out, because it 'wore out the battery.'
eldar said:
My dad had a Triumph 2.5pi Mk2 - YYL367H which was fast comfortable and reliable (apart from the fuel pump trip switch which would trip at random, but easily reset), followed by a Rover 3500S - MVB305L equally good apart from the slightly dodgy snap oversteer. And why can I remember those reg. numbers?
He was going to replace the Rover with another one, they had become expensive and stupid delivery times thanks to prolonged strikes, so ended up with a boring but available Volvo.
Funny you should say that about delivery times on the P6, as in about 1974/5 one of my much older cousins, bought a brand new Rover 2000TC, as they had quite a short delivery time compared with the V8 version, which is what he really wanted, but IIRC, the delivery time on the 3500 V8 was something like 6+ months back then, and being an impatient bugger, he couldn't wait, so went for the 2000TC instead, which he regretted, and never liked, and chopped it in for a Dolly Sprint about 18 months later, which proved to be an even bigger mistake, and he chopped that in for a 1 year old Volvo 240 after about 18 months or so.He was going to replace the Rover with another one, they had become expensive and stupid delivery times thanks to prolonged strikes, so ended up with a boring but available Volvo.
I love reading the accounts of people's dads who, like my late father, worked in Lucas and BL in the time of troubles and beyond. I like the reference above to working at "the Austin". My dad used that terminology. He would say "I had to go in for a meeting at the Rover" , or "That new bloke's just been transferred across from the Austin", and so on.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 20th April 14:21
CharlesdeGaulle said:
All cars broke down and rusted in the 1970s. Fact.
It was the arrival of the Japanese cars that changed that, not the Germans.
The Japanese were late arrivals in Britain compared with Convictia.It was the arrival of the Japanese cars that changed that, not the Germans.
Here in Aus the Japanese influx started in the late 60s and was well underway by the mid 70s : BL's small cars didn't stand a chance.
I got my first car in 1980. One of the contenders was a Marina, but I ended up with a 1967 Toyota Corolla. It may have lacked some of the "charm" of the Marina, but it was a much better design from the reliability point of view.
Alloy head, reasonable power for its capacity, smooth gearbox, acceptable handling (the Marina had scary levels of understeer), and as unkillable as a cockroach. For bonus points, the 5 speed gearbox and front disks from the 1970 model bolted straight in
.One thing that stands out to me was the comparative ease of servicing of the Japanese cars; IIRC every bolt and nut in the Corolla could be undone with a 10, 12, 14, 17 or 19 mm spanner.
When I later bought a Triumph I needed twice as many tools.
One of my workmates worked on the XJS line at Browns Lane from '86 to '92 before he came on the railway, he still refers to the place as 'The Jag'.
When I was learning the mainline between Birmingham and Gloucester a few years ago one of the drivers I rode with said to me as we passed the site of Longbridge ''shut off at The Austin for the junction up ahead at Kings Norton''. It's mostly houses now but I still think of 'The Austin' when I pass by.
When I was learning the mainline between Birmingham and Gloucester a few years ago one of the drivers I rode with said to me as we passed the site of Longbridge ''shut off at The Austin for the junction up ahead at Kings Norton''. It's mostly houses now but I still think of 'The Austin' when I pass by.
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