Another mystery car

[OLDBENZ]

_Sorted_ said:

Going back a few pages I put some plans of car online that included dimensions. Is not a big car. Screen was bought and scanned to ensure reference was as correct as possible.





Size of people is interesting one. Away at moment, but will post a couple of heights on return.

Thank you to _Sorted_ for bringing this to life.

I have been looking at the side windows which look fixed - certainly, given the shape, they cannot drop. Unless there is a small sliding racing style window hatch concealed by our pedestrian there can be no ventilation through the doors. It must have got pretty hot in the cabin. I would have expected to see some sort of ventilation hatch in the roof if the windows were fixed but cannot make one out.

I am also one who sees a hinge for the door at the back of the roof so believe the door opens like a canopy not a Gullwing.

[The Surveyor]

douglasb said:

..........

I only ask as my gut feeling is that the car is tiny.

That was always my thoughts, it was more Berkeley in scale than Triumph Herald IMHO



Image shown for example of scale rather than any reference to the actual mystery car.

[bstark]

Sorted's wheelbase prediction is closer to Ford Popular than Berkeley or Austin Seven

[_Sorted_]

bstark said:

Sorted's wheelbase prediction is closer to Ford Popular than Berkeley or Austin Seven

Pleased to here this as, with no facts checked, was hoping it might be a Ford Special.

[bstark]

Proportions of your CAD profile are very similar to a Tornado Tempest, which used that chassis as an option - even the placement and unusual size of the doors. Not saying it is a Tornado, just that the chassis dimensions would seem to fit.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=tornado+tempest&...

Edited by bstark on Friday 27th July 08:41

[uk66fastback]

Here's the Kelsey GT car ...

Sadly it's not like our one ...

http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=99...

That's all interesting stuff though you've unearthed. Hearing about the 'poor lock to lock' and the words 'West End' etc got the heart a-fluttering ... !

[Yertis]

uk66fastback said:

Here's the Kelsey GT car ...

Sadly it's not like our one ...

http://www.coachbuild.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=99...

That's all interesting stuff though you've unearthed. Hearing about the 'poor lock to lock' and the words 'West End' etc got the heart a-fluttering ... !

Hands up who has, or has fought the urge to, wade through all those coachbuilders looking for "the one"?

[_Sorted_]

Bloomin' car does get under the skin. My date for when picture taken search below.



Sandy colour is less likely dates as per when Royal Tournament was on. A 1 is a possible and 0 impossible.

Only way I can see of narrowing it down anymore is getting info from the Met Office. They offer the below for 1962:
• Kingsway/Aldwych – Daily Sunshine Hours
• St. James Park – Daily Rainfall, Daily Mean, Max, and Min Temperatures.
• London Weather Centre – Daily total solar radiation (this may help with the cloud issues).
• Kensington Palace – Grass, Soil at 30cm depth, Soil at 100cm depth.

Not sure if above helps as frankly do not understand what they are offering. Any weather experts on here?

Well aware above is getting a bit daft, but love a mystery.

[CanAm]

Yertis said:

Hands up who has, or has fought the urge to, wade through all those coachbuilders looking for "the one"?

The entire back history of MotorSport magazine has already been digitised. We just need the rest of the motoring press and club magazines of the 60s to do likewise and for Google Image search to include AI and I reckon we'll be onto a winner.

[douglasb]

bstark said:

Sorted's wheelbase prediction is closer to Ford Popular than Berkeley or Austin Seven

This is where I was going with my "what size are the people" question.

At the moment the dimensions are a guess based on the windscreen being a Super Minx rear screen and of a known size. What if the screen just looks like that glass but is a different size? That would change the overall dimensions.

There isn't much in the photo that is of a known size and distance to use as a reference but the distance from the woman in the red coat in the foreground to the car could be estmated and used. If, using the estimated dimensions of the car, she would be six feet ten (exaggeration!) then the car is a lot smaller than Sorted's projection. If she would be about five foot five we can take it that the dimesions are pretty close. The chap wearing a tie at the rear of the car could be another good reference as he appears to be very close to the offside rear wing but not actually behind the car. If the projected dimensions suggest that he would be five foot eight that would also suggest that Sorted's estimated size is about correct.

At the moment the projected sizes make the car smaller than an Alpine but bigger than a Spridget.

[TooMany2cvs]

If the wheelbase is coming out at Ford Pop length, then that would suggest you have the scaling bob-on. The chances of a late 50s/very early 60s special being based on anything else are slim.

[_Sorted_]

douglasb said:

bstark said:

Sorted's wheelbase prediction is closer to Ford Popular than Berkeley or Austin Seven

This is where I was going with my "what size are the people" question.

At the moment the dimensions are a guess based on the windscreen being a Super Minx rear screen and of a known size. What if the screen just looks like that glass but is a different size? That would change the overall dimensions.

There isn't much in the photo that is of a known size and distance to use as a reference but the distance from the woman in the red coat in the foreground to the car could be estmated and used. If, using the estimated dimensions of the car, she would be six feet ten (exaggeration!) then the car is a lot smaller than Sorted's projection. If she would be about five foot five we can take it that the dimesions are pretty close. The chap wearing a tie at the rear of the car could be another good reference as he appears to be very close to the offside rear wing but not actually behind the car. If the projected dimensions suggest that he would be five foot eight that would also suggest that Sorted's estimated size is about correct.

At the moment the projected sizes make the car smaller than an Alpine but bigger than a Spridget.

...The bus, wheel trims and over riders are all known and match well. Bus from plans and parts physically bought.

[dandarez]

Have to say, adding to others on here, I love your rendering!
Didn't notice before the rear over-rider(s), obviously the same as front (got to be Triumph).

Something just jumped out at me, your little ridge on rear 'boot' (ringed).
Everyone previously seems to have said this is probably a fuel filler.
Could it not be a boot handle, Wilmot Breeden type? Plenty varieties around at that time.
As such I'm now seeing the rear panel with rubber held 'flat' Perspex screen as a full length opening bootlid?

Might just be me, but I can see a feint line running rearwards downwards, boot shutline?
And a tiny bit flatter than the slightly curved rear in your rendering?

All ruddy guesswork, of course.
Keep up the good work. Still think it's GRP and a one-off Brit.

[davepoth]

Maybe something, perhaps.

I was looking at google image search for ford 103e kit cars, and saw this one:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/kit-car-for...

Although it looks completely wrong in terms of the styling, what really piqued my interest was the rear window and the location of the fuel filler - they look to be right for "our" car. Maybe our builder started with one of these and decided he could do better?

[torquespeak]

CanAm said:

The entire back history of MotorSport magazine has already been digitised. We just need the rest of the motoring press and club magazines of the 60s to do likewise and for Google Image search to include AI and I reckon we'll be onto a winner.

FWIW, the car does not appear in Autocar from 1959-1963. I spent a day at the Haymarket / LAT Archive years ago (god, it really has been that long, hasn't it...) flipping page-by-page through hundreds of issues.

-Ed

[torquespeak]

Folks, this obviously ISN'T the car, so apologies for the slight hijack - but since we've all been looking at 1960s specials (many with gullwing doors) for nearly three years now, I'm hoping someone can ID the car below within minutes.

Anyone?



-Ed

[threespires]

torquespeak said:

Folks, this obviously ISN'T the car, so apologies for the slight hijack - but since we've all been looking at 1960s specials (many with gullwing doors) for nearly three years now, I'm hoping someone can ID the car below within minutes.

Anyone?



-Ed

Great find!

[uk66fastback]

Yes, superb find. What year is that advert from? Would that be a more 70s car with that shape/lights?

One-offs of that ilk are probably remembered as much as the mystery car ... maybe.

Who builds a one-off car in aluminium for a show unless they're a W&P-style affair?

Who fancies trying the number?

[TooMany2cvs]

uk66fastback said:

Who fancies trying the number?

229 is Bayswater. 01 puts it 1980s at the latest.

[CanAm]

torquespeak said:

FWIW, the car does not appear in Autocar from 1959-1963. I spent a day at the Haymarket / LAT Archive years ago (god, it really has been that long, hasn't it...) flipping page-by-page through hundreds of issues.

-Ed

You, Sir, are a martyr for our cause; I doff my cap to you.
How about The Motor magazine?