Can a Stag be used as a daily driver?
Discussion
I once spent two days with a 2002 tii. I liked it a lot, but it did break down and I had to go home in a rented Focus while the BMW went home on a low loader. I have spent almost two years with a Dolomite Sprint. I like it, for a while just a bit, but recently a lot. It has been low loadered home once, and towed to a garage once. It has given me a fair bit of faff, but recently has stopped doing so and is going like the clappers.
Breadvan72 said:
That is good - Jamie Kitman has always been a good writer. I've never been a 2002 fan tbh, ugly boat like thing. But FFS:
The Sprint was not the first 16v production 4 pot.
Escort RS1600 - 1970
Jensen Healey - 1972.
iSore said:
300bhp/ton said:
The Stag V8 is based on the slant 4 Triumph engine. Which also has the finger pointed at it from time to time. But like the V8 they are perfectly good engines for the most part. Remember the same engine was also used in the Saab turbo for many years, with the most major change being how the gearbox was attached to it.
No it wasn't. The warranty claims on the 1709 cc Triumph slant four were so numerous that by 1971, Saab took this underdeveloped, poorly made s
tcrate and completely redeveloped it for launch in the mid seventies. The Saab slant four as first seen in the 99 Combi EMS was a superb engine, having very few common parts and being built by the Swedes and not disenfranchised Brummies.Saab started using the Triumph unit in 67/8, and Triumph first used it in 1972 with the first Dolomite.
Saab had considered using the Stag V8 in a performance version of the Saab 99, and in fact did build a run of almost 50 of them......but after the 4 cyl engine re-design and the oil crisis of 74, they ditched the idea in favour of adding a turbo to their redesign of the 4 cyl engine to create the iconic Saab 99 Turbo.
These things were a disaster by the time they were 10 years old due to rot and engine failures, values sunk to banger prices in the 80's, in fact they were pretty unsaleable by that time.
Any that have survived this long are likely to have been rebuilt several times over so it's a case of find a good one that's been well really done and maintain it well it could be a useable classic (inspite of how bad they were when they came out the factory).
Any that have survived this long are likely to have been rebuilt several times over so it's a case of find a good one that's been well really done and maintain it well it could be a useable classic (inspite of how bad they were when they came out the factory).
iSore said:
Breadvan72 said:
That is good - Jamie Kitman has always been a good writer. I've never been a 2002 fan tbh, ugly boat like thing. But FFS:
The Sprint was not the first 16v production 4 pot.
Escort RS1600 - 1970
Jensen Healey - 1972.
aeropilot said:
Correct, the Saab developed B-Series engine from 72-on while keeping the same bore centres, and other basic design criteria, was a complete re-design to solve the problems 'designed in' by Triumph...
Saab had considered using the Stag V8 in a performance version of the Saab 99, and in fact did build a run of almost 50 of them......but after the 4 cyl engine re-design and the oil crisis of 74, they ditched the idea in favour of adding a turbo to their redesign of the 4 cyl engine to create the iconic Saab 99 Turbo.
I believe Ricardo were involved in the original Triumph design. A pity it went so badly wrong as they made some great cars in the sixties - the Mark 1 2000 and the little FWD 1300 with the neat fold away door handles.Saab had considered using the Stag V8 in a performance version of the Saab 99, and in fact did build a run of almost 50 of them......but after the 4 cyl engine re-design and the oil crisis of 74, they ditched the idea in favour of adding a turbo to their redesign of the 4 cyl engine to create the iconic Saab 99 Turbo.
If only.... :-(
300bhp/ton said:
battered said:
I thought the original V8 did eventually get the fundamental faults fixed though? Rather like the K series, as sold it's a crap engine, but a K with a working head gasket and associated parts is very good indeed.
Yet there are still likely tens if not hundreds of thousands of K-Series engines in use daily... completely unmodified. Really this story is as BS now as in past times FFS.And was first in production in 1988!
tty plastic dowels that moved in the heat and Mike Satur just designed the modified gasket for a laugh. My cousin didn't end up shelling out for 2 HG rebuilds in her FSH 2yr old MGF, and I totally imagined spending 2 weekends sorting a leaking HG in my 14k mile Caterham KSS.As you were.
rallycross said:
These things were a disaster by the time they were 10 years old due to rot and engine failures, values sunk to banger prices in the 80's, in fact they were pretty unsaleable by that time.
Any that have survived this long are likely to have been rebuilt several times over so it's a case of find a good one that's been well really done and maintain it well it could be a useable classic (inspite of how bad they were when they came out the factory).
When I bought mine in 1986, it was 12 years old and being young and naive and just wanting a Stag I bought the second one I saw which was in fact, worse than the first one I saw (which i stupidly didn't buy cos my old man said never to buy the first one you saw). It had a rusty bootlid, 10 or so previous owners already (walk away ffs!) and I readily handed over the dosh.Any that have survived this long are likely to have been rebuilt several times over so it's a case of find a good one that's been well really done and maintain it well it could be a useable classic (inspite of how bad they were when they came out the factory).
Anyway, that was 30+ years ago.
I have a classic-owning friend who has owned a decent one since the turn of the millennium and it's a good car which he maintains religiously. He has also had a fair few others as well as this one and they've largely been not very good - his brother has had a couple two - a mixed bag at best. He's a bit of an electrics wiz so has been able to spend time on them to get that side of them at least running half decently. He has recently bought another which he thought was his father's Stag from the 70s/80s - going by the reg and VIN but has just found it is not - it's a Mk II disguised as a Mk 1 which didn't add up - the car has been reshelled at some point, all of which has been a shame ...
He's got to now sell it for parts having stripped a lot off it to use on other Stags he will own!
Gluttons for punishment some people ... !
uk66fastback said:
When I bought mine in 1986, it was 12 years old and being young and naive and just wanting a Stag I bought the second one I saw which was in fact, worse than the first one I saw (which i stupidly didn't buy cos my old man said never to buy the first one you saw). It had a rusty bootlid, 10 or so previous owners already (walk away ffs!) and I readily handed over the dosh.
Anyway, that was 30+ years ago.
I have a classic-owning friend who has owned a decent one since the turn of the millennium and it's a good car which he maintains religiously. He has also had a fair few others as well as this one and they've largely been not very good - his brother has had a couple two - a mixed bag at best. He's a bit of an electrics wiz so has been able to spend time on them to get that side of them at least running half decently. He has recently bought another which he thought was his father's Stag from the 70s/80s - going by the reg and VIN but has just found it is not - it's a Mk II disguised as a Mk 1 which didn't add up - the car has been reshelled at some point, all of which has been a shame ...
He's got to now sell it for parts having stripped a lot off it to use on other Stags he will own!
Gluttons for punishment some people ... !
I bought the first one I saw in 1986 and it had a scabby bootlid!!Anyway, that was 30+ years ago.
I have a classic-owning friend who has owned a decent one since the turn of the millennium and it's a good car which he maintains religiously. He has also had a fair few others as well as this one and they've largely been not very good - his brother has had a couple two - a mixed bag at best. He's a bit of an electrics wiz so has been able to spend time on them to get that side of them at least running half decently. He has recently bought another which he thought was his father's Stag from the 70s/80s - going by the reg and VIN but has just found it is not - it's a Mk II disguised as a Mk 1 which didn't add up - the car has been reshelled at some point, all of which has been a shame ...
He's got to now sell it for parts having stripped a lot off it to use on other Stags he will own!
Gluttons for punishment some people ... !
The Mk 2 disguised as a Mk1 came about mostly due to Labour stopping the free road tax rollover for cars reaching 25 years old, their cut-off point was all cars pre-73 which meant the majority of stags eligible for free road tax were Mk1's.
I am now on my fourth one, the electrics have never been an issue, very basic and far superior to Italian vehicle electrics, I would be more concerned about a 15 year old BMW/Mercedes when their fancy electronic gizmos start ageing and acting up.
My first one and my current one.
Having had mine for 17 years, I thought I'd add my comments.
When it was first restored it in 2000, I used it as a daily driver for about 5 years. That was even in snow!
Other than keeping it serviced, it didn't need any mechanical work. Although the roof leaked like a sieve, so the carpets were wet from October to May and all the windows steamed up.
Also the bodywork suffered. Paint bubbled up, bumpers got pitted and rusty and the roof went faded and green.
Around 2006, I got it resprayed and the bumpers re-chromed. I then decided that not only it was a shame to use it every day and watch it deteriorate, but to be honest, I was sick of it and I bought a Lexus.
Since then it only gets used occasionally in the summer and now I look forward to driving it again.
In my ownership its done about 35000 miles, with the following issues:
Oil leak from the water pump, that dripped onto the exhaust (lovely).
Diff leaking oil (not a cheap fix)
2nd gear synchro (swapped for a second gearbox).
Starter motor
its overheated twice: once a stuck thermostat and once an inlet manifold gasket.
Its been to Le Mans several times and even sat in traffic jams in 40 degree heat without issue.
I would add that most of the mechanical faults only seemed to start once it wasn't used regularly.
Would I recommend one as a daily driver?
It depends; Compared to a modern car, they are slow and noisy. Most importantly, the bodywork will not take kindly to British weather; within a few years it will look like a dog.
If you want a classic car, you want to enjoy it and have it looking nice. In this country, I'm not sure you can have both.
When it was first restored it in 2000, I used it as a daily driver for about 5 years. That was even in snow!
Other than keeping it serviced, it didn't need any mechanical work. Although the roof leaked like a sieve, so the carpets were wet from October to May and all the windows steamed up.
Also the bodywork suffered. Paint bubbled up, bumpers got pitted and rusty and the roof went faded and green.
Around 2006, I got it resprayed and the bumpers re-chromed. I then decided that not only it was a shame to use it every day and watch it deteriorate, but to be honest, I was sick of it and I bought a Lexus.
Since then it only gets used occasionally in the summer and now I look forward to driving it again.
In my ownership its done about 35000 miles, with the following issues:
Oil leak from the water pump, that dripped onto the exhaust (lovely).
Diff leaking oil (not a cheap fix)
2nd gear synchro (swapped for a second gearbox).
Starter motor
its overheated twice: once a stuck thermostat and once an inlet manifold gasket.
Its been to Le Mans several times and even sat in traffic jams in 40 degree heat without issue.
I would add that most of the mechanical faults only seemed to start once it wasn't used regularly.
Would I recommend one as a daily driver?
It depends; Compared to a modern car, they are slow and noisy. Most importantly, the bodywork will not take kindly to British weather; within a few years it will look like a dog.
If you want a classic car, you want to enjoy it and have it looking nice. In this country, I'm not sure you can have both.
Modern cars break down. They often break down because a computer tells them to break down. The AA bloke may be helpless to intervene, because the computer will not let him intervene.
Old cars break down. The AA bloke can and does roadside-fix old cars. He may use spanners, screwdrivers, voltage meters, hammers, clips, tape, hose, wire, cable ties, Paddington hard stares, and swearing. You may be on your way after an hour or so. You are not on a low loader waiting for the main dealer to open so that the car's computer can be plugged into another computer.
If you are on a low loader, it drops you off at home or at the local spanner-garage, and you wait until the internet is open again, and then buy the broken bit off eBay for a tenner, and get your local bloke to put it on, or put it on yourself. It's your call which you prefer.
Old cars break down. The AA bloke can and does roadside-fix old cars. He may use spanners, screwdrivers, voltage meters, hammers, clips, tape, hose, wire, cable ties, Paddington hard stares, and swearing. You may be on your way after an hour or so. You are not on a low loader waiting for the main dealer to open so that the car's computer can be plugged into another computer.
If you are on a low loader, it drops you off at home or at the local spanner-garage, and you wait until the internet is open again, and then buy the broken bit off eBay for a tenner, and get your local bloke to put it on, or put it on yourself. It's your call which you prefer.
Despite our rose-tinted opinion of old cars, modern cars don't break down anywhere near as much as cars used to. Our old Leyland cars weren't even reliable when new. But I agree they were at least sometimes repairable at the roadside. That's why I always carry a set of spares and a tool kit – I can usually fix the car more quickly than waiting for the RAC.
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