Can a Stag be used as a daily driver?
Discussion
Breadvan72 said:
No rose tints here. Modern cars are more reliable, less rusty, faster, safer, and so on. Also mega boring.
Amen, ..my brother likens his new cars to extensions of his house as he only likes gadgets.. I like my old Corvette because its a driving machine that I'm operating, and I need to be constantly on my toes to get the best out of it and be safe. I still miss my old Mk1 Cortina GT on its crossplies (£4.17.6d for four fitted). That car really made you feel alive, it was a living, breathing, entity that would kill you if you dared to take it for granted..
exitwound said:
Amen, ..my brother likens his new cars to extensions of his house as he only likes gadgets.. I like my old Corvette because its a driving machine that I'm operating, and I need to be constantly on my toes to get the best out of it and be safe.
I still miss my old Mk1 Cortina GT on its crossplies (£4.17.6d for four fitted). That car really made you feel alive, it was a living, breathing, entity that would kill you if you dared to take it for granted..
Kill you cos it was on crossplies. Sounds like fun. I still miss my old Mk1 Cortina GT on its crossplies (£4.17.6d for four fitted). That car really made you feel alive, it was a living, breathing, entity that would kill you if you dared to take it for granted..
uk66fastback said:
exitwound said:
Amen, ..my brother likens his new cars to extensions of his house as he only likes gadgets.. I like my old Corvette because its a driving machine that I'm operating, and I need to be constantly on my toes to get the best out of it and be safe.
I still miss my old Mk1 Cortina GT on its crossplies (£4.17.6d for four fitted). That car really made you feel alive, it was a living, breathing, entity that would kill you if you dared to take it for granted..
Kill you cos it was on crossplies. Sounds like fun. I still miss my old Mk1 Cortina GT on its crossplies (£4.17.6d for four fitted). That car really made you feel alive, it was a living, breathing, entity that would kill you if you dared to take it for granted..
My small block Chevy powered '32 Ford will be running on Firestone wide whitewall crossplies
Raygun said:
The person taking the picture must position themselves further back than they need to be and must ensure the camera is slightly out of focus. Simultaneously, the bloke in the picture must stand as if one leg is shorter than the other while caressing their testicles. : D
exitwound said:
The gradual breakaway with crossplies gives you an early warning of impending doom, while radials hang on building up energy until they suddenly let go in a big way and kill you.
S'why racing tyres are crossply.
Fine for racing tyres, but not so great on the road. I remember my old chap saying when he bought a new '66 Volvo 122S, it came on crossplies and they were the first thing to go after he nearly lost it on the drive home from the showroom.S'why racing tyres are crossply.
DonkeyApple said:
Raygun said:
The person taking the picture must position themselves further back than they need to be and must ensure the camera is slightly out of focus. Simultaneously, the bloke in the picture must stand as if one leg is shorter than the other while caressing their testicles. : D
Yertis said:
I think I've said it before, but if the Stag was actually Italian, rather than 'just' styled by one, it would be costing/worth about five times what it actually costs/is worth. Although maybe if it was Italian it would handle better.
Saying that the classic car boom of the late 80s they were fetching similar money to some Ferrari's, in this latest boom up until the last 18 months stag prices seemed to have STAGnated but they seem like they've gone up a fair bit now. I've had two Stags, never as a daily (except for one month a long time ago).
First, they are very drivable; with good brakes, good power, PAS, nice heater etc. The main difference to a modern car is a 'sharp', 'brittle' feel to it all, an example is the door which clangs closed instead of issuing a whumph when closed as it does on my BMW. This extends to throttle response, brakes, indicator stalks etc. It is fun but you are less insulated from everything. The worst thing about a Stag is the manual gearbox, which is pretty poderous. The auto is fine though 3 speeds limits the performance.
I wouldn't drive mine every day for two (connected) reasons..
1) It would ruin it
2) It would be no fun, stuck in traffic etc.
I don't mind using the car but it's a waste when it isn't fun, I'd rather drive something modern I don't care about if I'm stuck in traffic anyway.
I wrote the below a few years ago in response to a similar thread. I mostly still agree with myself, though last time I checked (250 miles over New Years) the car returned 31mpg, I've rebuilt the carbs since this was written:
"I get 25mpg from my manual O/D on a long run; it's been tuned pretty carefully but I wouldn't say I drive slowly.
re: head gasket issues.
OK, you see in most cars, especially classics, the head gasket letting go isn't really an issue. In, say, a spitfire you'd just pull the head, and replace the gasket, bolt head back in place. Simple (or cheap if someone is doing it for you). With the stag things are very different. First you have two heads, so double the work. You also have the problem that those heads are made of ally (really crap quality ally at that), so will have warped and need skimming. Then you have the headbolt arrangement. The head bolts are driven in at an angle so they have to be removed before the head comes off. Because of corrosion this will be very difficult indeed and needs specialist experience. I have been unfortunate enough to have two Stags, both of which have had head gasket issues. The bill both times was in excess of £1,500, and I was lucky because both times my heads could be saved and we didn't need to buy new ones. If it happens, it's a problem.
That isn't the only reason people worry, after all, head gasket failures are fairly rare, especially in a properly maintained car.
There are a number of factors on the Stag which makes them prone to head gasket failure. As I mentioned, the heads themselves are made from cheese so corrode internally more readily then most cars, this leads to silting of the water ways, localised overheating, warped heads and a blown head gasket. Not helped by the structural inlet manifold which is torqued against the heads, which actually tries to pull them from the block. Over time this distorts the gasket, leading to failure.
The cooling system on a stag is perfectly adequate. I've had mine stuck in traffic on hot days and it doesn't over heat. Assuming the radiator isn't blocked/full of sand or whatever it's not the capacity of the cooling system which is the problem. The main problem is the location of the water pump. It's right near the top of the engine, so the smallest leak leads very quickly to the water pump being starved...overheating...warped head...head gasket. Not helped by the header tank being below the top of the radiator, which means there's no reservoir of coolant (also makes checking the level a real pain). Also not helped by the temp sender being on the back of one of the heads, so even with an eagle eye on it you could have one head overheating and the gauge will lie and tell you that everything is fine.
I really like Stag's. For me I don't think there's anything for anywhere near the same money that gets close, except perhaps an R107 Mercedes SL or a Jaguar XJS cabrio. After I sold mine I thought long and hard about something else but in the end bought another one but I keep hearing that 'by now all the issues on one will have been sorted' and that all they need is a bigger radiator and they are fine and it's not true. You just need to be aware. If it happens, it happens. I'd be more worried about rust, but that's for another post.
My advice would be to drive a few so you know what they are supposed to be like. You are lucky you have something to compare to. I've driven a fair few stags and most of them have at least one thing very wrong with them. Usually brakes, but soggy suspension and lethargic engines are also common. Yes, all the gearboxes are like that. Yes, I know. You get used to it.
V8Triumph nee pixieporsche drives one everyday, they might be able to help.
ETA: Never had a problem with parts. I believe a few bits are rare; one of the types of water pump, correct Mk1 hoods, quarter light control knobs, working kienzle clocks but I've never had a problem getting stuff. Both mine where the later Mk2 variant. Oh, speaking of hoods, they are more expensive then you think. Wheeler dealers did a Stag once, thought you might be interested."
First, they are very drivable; with good brakes, good power, PAS, nice heater etc. The main difference to a modern car is a 'sharp', 'brittle' feel to it all, an example is the door which clangs closed instead of issuing a whumph when closed as it does on my BMW. This extends to throttle response, brakes, indicator stalks etc. It is fun but you are less insulated from everything. The worst thing about a Stag is the manual gearbox, which is pretty poderous. The auto is fine though 3 speeds limits the performance.
I wouldn't drive mine every day for two (connected) reasons..
1) It would ruin it
2) It would be no fun, stuck in traffic etc.
I don't mind using the car but it's a waste when it isn't fun, I'd rather drive something modern I don't care about if I'm stuck in traffic anyway.
I wrote the below a few years ago in response to a similar thread. I mostly still agree with myself, though last time I checked (250 miles over New Years) the car returned 31mpg, I've rebuilt the carbs since this was written:
"I get 25mpg from my manual O/D on a long run; it's been tuned pretty carefully but I wouldn't say I drive slowly.
re: head gasket issues.
OK, you see in most cars, especially classics, the head gasket letting go isn't really an issue. In, say, a spitfire you'd just pull the head, and replace the gasket, bolt head back in place. Simple (or cheap if someone is doing it for you). With the stag things are very different. First you have two heads, so double the work. You also have the problem that those heads are made of ally (really crap quality ally at that), so will have warped and need skimming. Then you have the headbolt arrangement. The head bolts are driven in at an angle so they have to be removed before the head comes off. Because of corrosion this will be very difficult indeed and needs specialist experience. I have been unfortunate enough to have two Stags, both of which have had head gasket issues. The bill both times was in excess of £1,500, and I was lucky because both times my heads could be saved and we didn't need to buy new ones. If it happens, it's a problem.
That isn't the only reason people worry, after all, head gasket failures are fairly rare, especially in a properly maintained car.
There are a number of factors on the Stag which makes them prone to head gasket failure. As I mentioned, the heads themselves are made from cheese so corrode internally more readily then most cars, this leads to silting of the water ways, localised overheating, warped heads and a blown head gasket. Not helped by the structural inlet manifold which is torqued against the heads, which actually tries to pull them from the block. Over time this distorts the gasket, leading to failure.
The cooling system on a stag is perfectly adequate. I've had mine stuck in traffic on hot days and it doesn't over heat. Assuming the radiator isn't blocked/full of sand or whatever it's not the capacity of the cooling system which is the problem. The main problem is the location of the water pump. It's right near the top of the engine, so the smallest leak leads very quickly to the water pump being starved...overheating...warped head...head gasket. Not helped by the header tank being below the top of the radiator, which means there's no reservoir of coolant (also makes checking the level a real pain). Also not helped by the temp sender being on the back of one of the heads, so even with an eagle eye on it you could have one head overheating and the gauge will lie and tell you that everything is fine.
I really like Stag's. For me I don't think there's anything for anywhere near the same money that gets close, except perhaps an R107 Mercedes SL or a Jaguar XJS cabrio. After I sold mine I thought long and hard about something else but in the end bought another one but I keep hearing that 'by now all the issues on one will have been sorted' and that all they need is a bigger radiator and they are fine and it's not true. You just need to be aware. If it happens, it happens. I'd be more worried about rust, but that's for another post.
My advice would be to drive a few so you know what they are supposed to be like. You are lucky you have something to compare to. I've driven a fair few stags and most of them have at least one thing very wrong with them. Usually brakes, but soggy suspension and lethargic engines are also common. Yes, all the gearboxes are like that. Yes, I know. You get used to it.
V8Triumph nee pixieporsche drives one everyday, they might be able to help.
ETA: Never had a problem with parts. I believe a few bits are rare; one of the types of water pump, correct Mk1 hoods, quarter light control knobs, working kienzle clocks but I've never had a problem getting stuff. Both mine where the later Mk2 variant. Oh, speaking of hoods, they are more expensive then you think. Wheeler dealers did a Stag once, thought you might be interested."
Edited by varsas on Thursday 27th April 09:27
varsas said:
I don't think there's anything for anywhere near the same money that gets close, except perhaps an R107 Mercedes SL [/footnote]
That's the thing though. When Stags were 3-4 grand (not that long ago) there was a case for them, but it seems that anything worth having is the same price as a decent R107 Merc - a car that is vastly superior on every level. There are loads of really horrid SL's out there, but lots of decent ones and unlike the Stag, the SL was a reliable car when new and free from serious design faults. Probably a better long term investment of time and £££ as well.
iSore said:
That's the thing though. When Stags were 3-4 grand (not that long ago) there was a case for them, but it seems that anything worth having is the same price as a decent R107 Merc - a car that is vastly superior on every level.
There are loads of really horrid SL's out there, but lots of decent ones and unlike the Stag, the SL was a reliable car when new and free from serious design faults. Probably a better long term investment of time and £££ as well.
I must take issue with you there, the stag imho looks far better than a R107 and although as you say it may have been more reliable when new nowadays the stag is as reliable as any old Merc, some of the Merc's being made in the 70s had serious rust problems and for a while in the early 70s BL were still using British steel I would say less rust prone than their Merc counterpart, as BL went into cost cutting exercises in the mid to late 70s using imported steel they had the same issues as all their foreign competitors.There are loads of really horrid SL's out there, but lots of decent ones and unlike the Stag, the SL was a reliable car when new and free from serious design faults. Probably a better long term investment of time and £££ as well.
uk66fastback said:
exitwound said:
The gradual breakaway with crossplies gives you an early warning of impending doom, while radials hang on building up energy until they suddenly let go in a big way and kill you.
S'why racing tyres are crossply.
Fine for racing tyres, but not so great on the road. I remember my old chap saying when he bought a new '66 Volvo 122S, it came on crossplies and they were the first thing to go after he nearly lost it on the drive home from the showroom.S'why racing tyres are crossply.
"...turn right to go left!"
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=tirn+right+to+...
Raygun said:
I must take issue with you there, the stag imho looks far better than a R107 and although as you say it may have been more reliable when new nowadays the stag is as reliable as any old Merc, some of the Merc's being made in the 70s had serious rust problems and for a while in the early 70s BL were still using British steel I would say less rust prone than their Merc counterpart, as BL went into cost cutting exercises in the mid to late 70s using imported steel they had the same issues as all their foreign competitors.
Thanks for writing that - saved me the bother! A Stag is sometimes reckoned to handle better than a 107 - can't vouch for that as I've never driven a 107 - and I would lay good odds that Stags are also a fair degree cheaper to restore and maintain. I looked into buying a 107 a couple of years ago because I like the style, but came away preferring the Stag (again) and then elected to stick with the TR6.Yertis said:
Thanks for writing that - saved me the bother! A Stag is sometimes reckoned to handle better than a 107 - can't vouch for that as I've never driven a 107 - and I would lay good odds that Stags are also a fair degree cheaper to restore and maintain. I looked into buying a 107 a couple of years ago because I like the style, but came away preferring the Stag (again) and then elected to stick with the TR6.
The irony to all this and you can probably vouch for this too is the problem with keeping a Triumph on the road nowadays is the quality of new parts available, the quality of BL/Unipart items from the 70s are far superior to today's parts options which are mostly imported from the far east.Yes I agree. Certainly, buy parts on provenance rather than price. I've given up on Triumph gearboxes altogether. They were iffy when new, reliability wise, and having been through three in fifteen years I'm now trying a Toyota Supra five-speed, which is apparently well able to handle much abuse and alot more BHP than a 2.5pi can make.
Yertis said:
I've given up on Triumph gearboxes altogether. They were iffy when new, reliability wise, and having been through three in fifteen years
Is that all....... 
I went 3 gearboxes in the space of 9 months in my Marina 1.8TC Coupe, such was the quality of chocolate BL used in making those
Yertis said:
Raygun said:
I must take issue with you there, the stag imho looks far better than a R107 and although as you say it may have been more reliable when new nowadays the stag is as reliable as any old Merc, some of the Merc's being made in the 70s had serious rust problems and for a while in the early 70s BL were still using British steel I would say less rust prone than their Merc counterpart, as BL went into cost cutting exercises in the mid to late 70s using imported steel they had the same issues as all their foreign competitors.
Thanks for writing that - saved me the bother! A Stag is sometimes reckoned to handle better than a 107 - can't vouch for that as I've never driven a 107 - and I would lay good odds that Stags are also a fair degree cheaper to restore and maintain. I looked into buying a 107 a couple of years ago because I like the style, but came away preferring the Stag (again) and then elected to stick with the TR6.I had a Dolomite Sprint that cost me £50 as a MoT failure that I ran as a daily when I was younger, covering about 30k in ~2 years. While I really enjoyed driving the Sprint the Sprint was an absolute pain to keep on the road covering that sort of miles. I had to work on the car most weeks including emergency repairs during the week. Granted I didn't baby the car when I drove it but I did a proper job when I fixed something but by the time my ownership finished I'd replaced everything at least once.
At the time it was our only car as the wife didn't learn to drive till near the end of my ownership of the Dolly. She learned to drive in the Dolly which is a bit of an achievement. I would only consider running a classic as a daily now if I could also have something reliable as a spare car as well. The winter in particular was no fun as the heater was pathetic in the Dolly (even after I replaced the heater matrix) and the inside of the car could ice up if I wasn't careful.
At the time it was our only car as the wife didn't learn to drive till near the end of my ownership of the Dolly. She learned to drive in the Dolly which is a bit of an achievement. I would only consider running a classic as a daily now if I could also have something reliable as a spare car as well. The winter in particular was no fun as the heater was pathetic in the Dolly (even after I replaced the heater matrix) and the inside of the car could ice up if I wasn't careful.
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