Why the obsession with originality of classics?

[tortop45]

Raygun said:

Just drifting here a bit but I didn't realise some people rekon you must inform the insurance company if you've done mods like going from points to electronic ignition. Anyone else come across this?

Yes very advisable informing your insurance company of any mods coz if you don,t and have a claim they will riggle out of paying.

[RichB]

a8hex said:

... When I first looked at selling mine I was also told to put it on radial tyres a...

You've not sold it though have you Ken?

[Shezbo]

There is a great thread within this Classic Car section of PHs with a title of XR2/XR3.

If you read the thread everyone who owned one in the 1980's modded their XR in some way...as I did mine XR3i.

And this is the point with this topic:

if you had the chance to buy one of two cars and one was as Ford built it and the other was modded...would you buy the modified one?

Of course you wouldn't!!!

You would buy the standard car.....and that is reason the standard car IS worth more.

(come on chaps - get a grip, there really is no argument here?)

[InitialDave]

Shezbo said:

There is a great thread within this Classic Car section of PHs with a title of XR2/XR3.

If you read the thread everyone who owned one in the 1980's modded their XR in some way...as I did mine XR3i.

And this is the point with this topic:

if you had the chance to buy one of two cars and one was as Ford built it and the other was modded...would you buy the modified one?

Of course you wouldn't!!!

You would buy the standard car.....and that is reason the standard car IS worth more.

(come on chaps - get a grip, there really is no argument here?)

Not arguing for the sake of it, but I'd buy on condition and subject to what the mods were. A smart one with reversible or inoffensive (to me) modifications would be preferable to a ratty standard one much of the time.

[GoodOlBoy]

Shezbo said:

There is a great thread within this Classic Car section of PHs with a title of XR2/XR3.

If you read the thread everyone who owned one in the 1980's modded their XR in some way...as I did mine XR3i.

And this is the point with this topic:

if you had the chance to buy one of two cars and one was as Ford built it and the other was modded...would you buy the modified one?

Of course you wouldn't!!!

You would buy the standard car.....and that is reason the standard car IS worth more.

(come on chaps - get a grip, there really is no argument here?)

There is a more than subtle difference between an XR3i modified (or butchered) by a boy racer and an E Type with a five speed gearbox and uprated brakes.

It's not a black and white subject and there are no rights and wrongs.

As you say, virtually every XR3i was messed about with in period, often to it's detriment, many of the original parts are long gone. That isn't the case with many other classic cars, where the modifications are modern upgrades and are easily reversible.

If I was forced to own an XR3i I'd take the unmodified car every time. If it was an E Type I'd fit a five speed gearbox and keep the original.

[ruhall]

Equus said:

Olivera said:

The identity of the unpleasant idiot is clear to anyone reading this thread.

Oh, I wouldn't necessarily call you unpleasant, just a bit thick.

I presume you're a troll.

The events leading up to 2008 and thereabouts show that the 'market' isn't always right.

I suppose it depends whether one's life is ruled by 'what's it worth'. Personally, I'm happy to update mine if it suits me. Sometimes rose-tinted specs often mean that the desired 'classic' isn't quite as good as you thought it would be. Each to their own - a friend goes into great detail about how saleable his purchases will be when considering what to buy; I simply buy what I like.

[Shezbo]

Strela said:

So, those R.S. Williams seven litre Astons, or a Morris Minor with a Charles Ware upgrade package with a 1275 motor and front discs etc. These folk just pissing their money away are they?

Never seen a Vicarage Mk.II Jag for less than 20k. Seen standard ones for less than 20k.

SL Shop Sportline conversions on R107 Mercs? Try finding one of them for under 80k. How many standard ones at that price?

Saw an episode of Wheeler Dealers where they sold a Maserati Biturbo with an electric motor for $22k. Don't see many standard ones at that price.

What was the rule again?

Edited by Strela on Tuesday 30th May 20:54

The rule is that the 10 most expensive cars sold as per this article are not modified....so these folk p*****d there money did they?

A Biturbo with an electric motor....makes more than a one owner - low mileage original....nah!

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/88249/most-e...

[tortop45]

Shezbo said:

There is a great thread within this Classic Car section of PHs with a title of XR2/XR3.

If you read the thread everyone who owned one in the 1980's modded their XR in some way...as I did mine XR3i.

And this is the point with this topic:

if you had the chance to buy one of two cars and one was as Ford built it and the other was modded...would you buy the modified one?

Of course you wouldn't!!!

You would buy the standard car.....and that is reason the standard car IS worth more.

(come on chaps - get a grip, there really is no argument here?)

Ive got to disagree.i posted a picture under the xr2/xr3 post of a modified xr3i convertiable eg=GARTRAC G6 which to people who now about these cars will see how much there worth compeared to a stock XR3i.They had the 2.8 capri engine in them and rear wheel drive which were the for runner to the rs200 .Gartrac only made about 30 tin tops and one soft top.so your argument is way of the mark when it comes to standard V modiffide.

[aeropilot]

tortop45 said:

Ive got to disagree.i posted a picture under the xr2/xr3 post of a modified xr3i convertiable eg=GARTRAC G6 which to people who now about these cars will see how much there worth compeared to a stock XR3i.They had the 2.8 capri engine in them and rear wheel drive which were the for runner to the rs200 .Gartrac only made about 30 tin tops and one soft top.so your argument is way of the mark when it comes to standard V modiffide.

Hardly a valid comparison to be honest.

The G6 had nothing to do with Ford, and can't seriously be compared in any way with a XR3i, let alone be considered as a modified XR3i, which it wasn't.

Also, it wasn't the forerunner to the RS200 either.

[S47]

This is a very interesting thread, clearly there's strong views on both sides. From my perspective Any 30-50 year old 'Classic' car has gotta have some visible wear - faults to improve, and visible use patina, this is perfectly acceptable, even desirable to me, However many folks when they rebuild their classics remove all signs of wear & Patina - IMO this devalues the car, after all even 30-50 year old humans have noticable wear & patina [shall we say].
When I win the lottery I'll have my Muira, but before I drive it [and I would be driving it as often as possible]- I'd be binning the crappy Weber Carbs and mechanical ignition - and Replacing them with ITB's and 3D ECU ignition.
Would I care whether it affected the value of said Muira - Nope, it's my car - I'll have it the way I want - fk what anyone else thinks

[Equus]

ruhall said:

The events leading up to 2008 and thereabouts show that the 'market' isn't always right.

I don't think anyone has suggested that the market is always right?

...merely that the market dictates values, at any given point in time, and that as a general rule the market dictates that values are higher for cars with a greater degree of originality.

When the 2008 crash occurred, it was the rubbish - the poorly restored, poor quality, or non-original cars - that were hit worst of all, so even when the market re-adjusted itself after being 'wrong', that basic rule was not merely maintained, it was underlined.

Edited by Equus on Tuesday 30th May 23:58

[Doofus]

You all think 2008 was a crash? You should have been around in the early 1990's. That was a crash!

[e21Mark]

My first ever car (in 1982) was a 1962 Austin Mini Minor, with Cosmic alloys and an Austin 1300GT engine conversion. I've modified just about every car I have ever owned since. Some mods were more questionable than others admittedly but the thinking behind the remained the same. Yes, I wanted to improve them but more than that, I wanted to make them my own.

My E21 didn't look that different, wheels and colour withstanding, but everything else was new and uprated/updated. A modern 240 bhp six pot, much bigger brakes and all new coil over suspension.

The M3 is the car that often attracts negative comments where I'm told I have spoiled it. I don't know why? As all the mods are done to a high standard and replicate what was done in period. I don't mind though really, as I always wanted a more track focussed M3. I wanted the noise and sense of occasion that driving such a raw car gives me. I think the mods only serve to make the most of the M3's finest qualities.

At the end of the day though, I am just happy to see classics getting used and if a few mods are more likely to make that happen, then Im all for it.

[Yertis]

Doofus said:

You all think 2008 was a crash? You should have been around in the early 1990's. That was a crash!

I didn't realise that there had been a crash in 2008, so far as classic cars were concerned. Noticed in 1992 though... ☹️

[Doofus]

Yertis said:

I didn't realise that there had been a crash in 2008, so far as classic cars were concerned. Noticed in 1992 though... ??

There wasn't. Not really. It's just that these whippersnappers think the sky fell in. They don't know they're born!

[craigjm]

Anyone that is a stickler for originality is best to avoid my XJC readers car thread or I might have a fatwa issued against me

[S47]

e21Mark
Good on you - BM's and tintop's ain't my thing - but I saw this last week, ain't seen one of these for awhile - were they all red??
>

[e21Mark]

No, but it was definitely a popular choice. The one in your pic looks Henna Red and there's also Brilliant Red like my own. I actually wanted a white one but as the prices were going crazy I had to buy the one I could afford, which happened to be red. As you say, they're a rare sight on the road nowadays.

[Shezbo]

S47 said:

e21Mark
Good on you - BM's and tintop's ain't my thing - but I saw this last week, ain't seen one of these for awhile - were they all red??
>

Lovely....much better than a modded one......

[e21Mark]

Shezbo said:

S47 said:

e21Mark
Good on you - BM's and tintop's ain't my thing - but I saw this last week, ain't seen one of these for awhile - were they all red??
>

Lovely....much better than a modded one......

I guess it depends what you want it for? If you're more concerned with bragging rights and maximising your investment potential, then maybe you'd have a point? If you're more keen on using it as intended, I will take a properly modified one every time. I've been fortunate enough to own 4 stock E30 M3 (and a 320is) and I wouldn't go back from my modified car. I am of a mind that homologation cars were always sold with modifications in mind anyway.

Edited by e21Mark on Wednesday 31st May 11:07