Allegro - worth the aggro?
Discussion
Raygun said:
Funny you mention Mk2 Escorts, this photo circa 1979 although was zoomed in on my new chrome on my Triumph T160 motorbike you can see my 1976 Mk2 1600 Sport parked in the garage at 3 years old it needed plates welding on both front suspension mounts also both doors had huge amounts of rust at the bottom where water had got in through the weather strips on the windows. Strange how people conveniently overlook this with the current worship of all old Fords.
ps The gearbox also packed in a year later!
Mine was 1975 1300L in Modena Green. Sold it in 1980. It was rust free, apart from steel wheels, and from memory the only failure was an alternator and brake servo.ps The gearbox also packed in a year later!
texaxile said:
Mate had a vanden plas back in the early 90's. Wooden tables and dash, plush carpets and it took 5 of us up to Alton towers from Ipswich without breaking down, keeping a decent turn of pace all the way. Heppy days, but not sure if I'd have one myself...
Yes but did it get you home again!Raygun said:
Funny you mention Mk2 Escorts, this photo circa 1979 although was zoomed in on my new chrome on my Triumph T160 motorbike you can see my 1976 Mk2 1600 Sport parked in the garage at 3 years old it needed plates welding on both front suspension mounts also both doors had huge amounts of rust at the bottom where water had got in through the weather strips on the windows. Strange how people conveniently overlook this with the current worship of all old Fords.
ps The gearbox also packed in a year later!
Mine was 1975 1300L in Modena Green. Sold it in 1980. It was rust free, apart from steel wheels, and from memory the only failure was an alternator and brake servo.ps The gearbox also packed in a year later!
Raygun said:
When I hear these BL cars getting a bad rep do people believe at the same time similar priced foreign cars were any better?
Alfas you hoped the lights would all work when darkness fell or crossed your fingers the wipers worked if it started raining not to mention how they rusted overnight or the worse car I have ever owned a brown Citroen GS Pallas, rust, rust and more rust, the Datsun Sunny with wings as thick as a Rizla paper even the SL Merc, same price as a semi was prone to rust and mechanical trouble.
When the Metro came out in the early 80s it was very popular bit like the new Minis in the early 2000s, it was the car a lot of people wanted it was a little after this we lost ground to the foreign competition and the days of the majority of British car owners owning a British car were over.
My dad always had Austins or BL product (2 x 1100s, 2 x Maxis, Princess wedge, Metro, 4 x Montegos) and didn't have any more problems than Ford or Vauxhall owners. And they were better finished and roomier, paticularly the Princess which was like a tardis.Alfas you hoped the lights would all work when darkness fell or crossed your fingers the wipers worked if it started raining not to mention how they rusted overnight or the worse car I have ever owned a brown Citroen GS Pallas, rust, rust and more rust, the Datsun Sunny with wings as thick as a Rizla paper even the SL Merc, same price as a semi was prone to rust and mechanical trouble.
When the Metro came out in the early 80s it was very popular bit like the new Minis in the early 2000s, it was the car a lot of people wanted it was a little after this we lost ground to the foreign competition and the days of the majority of British car owners owning a British car were over.
I've really enjoyed reading this thread and it has made me think just how attitudes in this forum have changed in the last few years. A car such as the Aggro, as it used to be colloquially called, would then have been condemned put of hand. But times have changed,and fast at that. The cars we discussed then have become financially Impossible to buy now and the number of posts overall in the forum has dropped considerably. I just happened to be born and started collecting when people thought me a fool to buy an old car. I hated my company Marinas and my Maxi because they were so shoddily built and my Morris 1100 used oil from new at a steady 150 miles per pint, a fact considered normal by the dealership. But purely because rust was inbuilt such cars as this are now so rare and worth saving just because they are what they are. Go for it is my opinion.
Think of the Allegro's competitors in (say) 1976:
Golf - great to drive, but surprisingly tinny and rusted badly and they used to piss oil out as well. Expensive.
Alfasud - even better, but rusted like you would not believe. Cheap to buy, surprisingly.
Escort - They were a lot of money for what they were. Reliable but dull, and rust was always an issue.
Viva - As above but cheap.
Citroen GS - a remarkable car, amazing to drive but very thirsty, rust prone and cost a fortune to maintain.
Datsun Cherry - probably the one to have. They did rust but they ran forever.
Honda Accord - that WAS the one to have, following on from the nifty Civic. You can't imagine how far ahead this was, a neat 3 door hatch with a turbine smooth 1300 OHC, faultless build quality and a great all rounder - far better than VW crap.
It was no better or worse than any of the others and it was - as someone said earlier - the most rust resistant of all the above. If only....they'd abandoned the E Series engine, given it a hatchback and built it better. An old dear in our village once had a late Y plate Allegro 1.0 (Metro 1000 engine) and it was surprisingly well assembled and sorted. Just as they were replacing it with the Maestro. Good old BL!
Golf - great to drive, but surprisingly tinny and rusted badly and they used to piss oil out as well. Expensive.
Alfasud - even better, but rusted like you would not believe. Cheap to buy, surprisingly.
Escort - They were a lot of money for what they were. Reliable but dull, and rust was always an issue.
Viva - As above but cheap.
Citroen GS - a remarkable car, amazing to drive but very thirsty, rust prone and cost a fortune to maintain.
Datsun Cherry - probably the one to have. They did rust but they ran forever.
Honda Accord - that WAS the one to have, following on from the nifty Civic. You can't imagine how far ahead this was, a neat 3 door hatch with a turbine smooth 1300 OHC, faultless build quality and a great all rounder - far better than VW crap.
It was no better or worse than any of the others and it was - as someone said earlier - the most rust resistant of all the above. If only....they'd abandoned the E Series engine, given it a hatchback and built it better. An old dear in our village once had a late Y plate Allegro 1.0 (Metro 1000 engine) and it was surprisingly well assembled and sorted. Just as they were replacing it with the Maestro. Good old BL!
threespires said:
An Allegro estate with a VTEC engine & suitable chassis updating might make an interesting 'Resto-Mod' - and it must have a quartic wheel.
An easier (and slightly more period) do would be the Montego Turbo motor (complete with copious amounts of torque steer) It'd be quick though.I think the point that really stands out with Aggro's was that BL managed to build a car that FAILED in every area:
design - totally comprised
engineering - inept
production control - there was none
production quality - as above
driving competence - dreadful
reliability - pityful
product quality - woeful
dealer back up - as above
on going development and sorting snagging issues....BL did not care the Unions likewise and dealers were from another era
All the other competitors vehicles at the time addressed several of these issues and WERE competent in several area (if not all - it was the 70's after all).
I genuinely loved cars - from an early age (early 60's child) - however sometimes the rose tinted spec's need to come off and Ford Pinto's and Aggro's (probably Marina's to?) need to be acknowledged as "rubbish" - that should really be put out to grass?
design - totally comprised
engineering - inept
production control - there was none
production quality - as above
driving competence - dreadful
reliability - pityful
product quality - woeful
dealer back up - as above
on going development and sorting snagging issues....BL did not care the Unions likewise and dealers were from another era
All the other competitors vehicles at the time addressed several of these issues and WERE competent in several area (if not all - it was the 70's after all).
I genuinely loved cars - from an early age (early 60's child) - however sometimes the rose tinted spec's need to come off and Ford Pinto's and Aggro's (probably Marina's to?) need to be acknowledged as "rubbish" - that should really be put out to grass?
Shezbo said:
All the other competitors vehicles at the time addressed several of these issues and WERE competent in several area (if not all - it was the 70's after all
i don't think so as pointed out by me earlier, some foreign brands were worse than BL. It's easy to say "that looks crap" now refering to something like a marina or allegro but at the time it was just a run of the mill car and like all cars of that era if you left North London for a holiday in Devon you did well if you avoided any sort of mechanical problems.Raygun said:
i don't think so as pointed out by me earlier, some foreign brands were worse than BL. It's easy to say "that looks crap" now refering to something like a marina or allegro but at the time it was just a run of the mill car and like all cars of that era if you left North London for a holiday in Devon you did well if you avoided any sort of mechanical problems.
I have to come back here, as my point is that (spectacularly) the Allegro had NO good features. Yes other 70's product was not brilliant within this price/model banding however:Mk1 Golf - yes it rusted BUT it was superbly designed and an innovative package.
Mk11 Escort - yes pretty unremarkable BUT it was reliable and was competent.
Honda Civic - pretty dull BUT had a wonderfully reliable unburstable engine and superb gear box.
Datsun Cherry - very ordinary to drive BUT was loaded with kit and modern gizzmo's that made it marvelous value for money
Alfa Sud - yes rusted in front of your eyes BUT was full of character and a design masterpiece.
Fiat 128 - as above BUT had a wonderful engine and functional in an Italian way.
Viva - woeful and whezzy BUT a better package than BL and was reliable if dull.
Toyota Corolla - yes rusty BUT a superby engineered package and had people turning to Jap cars in their hoards
The only "feature" the Allegro broke the mould with was the quartic steering wheel, which is NOT that ground breaking is it?
You're right really. Hydragas was really a technological dead end that only suited bigger cars (long wheelbase, Maxi and Princess) and the Alfasud on steel coils rode and handled far better. That the Allegro only sold a quarter of what its predecessor did speaks volumes.
As well as the quality issues, BL made the same mistake that BMW/Rover made again with right bubble Rover 200 and 400 in 1995 - it was too expensive. Apparently, against all advice from sales, BL's chairman put the prices up by around 100 quid a car just before launch.
In 1978, anyone who chose a 1500 Allegro at any price over the 3 door Accord needed their heads testing.
The Maxi, whilst an object or derision now, was liked by the press and was a genuinely useful car that had a lot going for it. The Allegro had too many better cars to compete with.
As well as the quality issues, BL made the same mistake that BMW/Rover made again with right bubble Rover 200 and 400 in 1995 - it was too expensive. Apparently, against all advice from sales, BL's chairman put the prices up by around 100 quid a car just before launch.
In 1978, anyone who chose a 1500 Allegro at any price over the 3 door Accord needed their heads testing.
The Maxi, whilst an object or derision now, was liked by the press and was a genuinely useful car that had a lot going for it. The Allegro had too many better cars to compete with.
So 40 years ago:
Allegro 1300 Super £2400
Alfasud 1200 5 speed £2600
Escort 1300 L £2410
Datsun 140J Violet £2380
Honda Accord 3dr £2895
Allegro 1500 Super £2815
Golf 1100L £2959
Viva E £2079
Renault 12L £2334
Fiat 128 1300CL £2200
GS Club 1220 £2700
Mazda 323 1300 £2223
BMW 633CSi £14999
So was the Allegro overpriced? At £1995 the 1300 would have sold rather better but at virtually no profit. The Golf was astonishingly overpriced but sold well.
Allegro 1300 Super £2400
Alfasud 1200 5 speed £2600
Escort 1300 L £2410
Datsun 140J Violet £2380
Honda Accord 3dr £2895
Allegro 1500 Super £2815
Golf 1100L £2959
Viva E £2079
Renault 12L £2334
Fiat 128 1300CL £2200
GS Club 1220 £2700
Mazda 323 1300 £2223
BMW 633CSi £14999
So was the Allegro overpriced? At £1995 the 1300 would have sold rather better but at virtually no profit. The Golf was astonishingly overpriced but sold well.
I worked at the main dealers when these were new. The worst issue was water leaks which were a bugger to find as they seemed to travel inside a lot. Part of the problems were caused by mechanics who lifted them on two post ramps incorrectly and they did flex a bit. Not a problem if you used the correct points on a two poster but stories of mechanics who couldn't open doors when on a two poster were common.
Looking at the condition of that one advertised I would suggest that has had all the problems fixed and will be great fun.
Mechanically they were fine, bits are still cheap and simple to fix as there was nothing fancy to go wrong.
Always preferred the two door version myself
Looking at the condition of that one advertised I would suggest that has had all the problems fixed and will be great fun.
Mechanically they were fine, bits are still cheap and simple to fix as there was nothing fancy to go wrong.
Always preferred the two door version myself
PositronicRay said:
threespires said:
An Allegro estate with a VTEC engine & suitable chassis updating might make an interesting 'Resto-Mod' - and it must have a quartic wheel.
An easier (and slightly more period) do would be the Montego Turbo motor (complete with copious amounts of torque steer) It'd be quick though.Good idea -
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