which classic car value is/will drop the most
Discussion
lowdrag said:
An interesting question; in France the government has increased the tax on fuel "to save the planet by making us do less miles". Yeah yeah, nothing to do with paying for their mistresses or the odd bottle of Petrus of course. The increase in taxation will be €3 billion per year. Now given that we are going electric in 2040 (forget for the sake of argument the crossover period with some electric and the run-out of fossil fuel engines) and there is going to be one hell of a deficit in each countries budget. Like ginormous. So where do we go from there? Have they thought this through?
Variable road pricing coming one day to a road near you.a8hex said:
Recharging electric cars at a reasonable rate is going to require that every house in the country is going to need fatter copper cables connecting them to the new power stations.
That presupposes that the current car ownership model persists. I envisage no longer owning my personal car, but every morning as I get out of my shower I summon up a self-driving vehicle which rolls up at the door and takes me to my place of work (assuming they still exist !) Then it it toddles off to a central docking station to await someone else's call.Mr Tidy said:
roscobbc said:
In future years and with housing shortage/cost of land/shortage of land/cost of mortgages inevitably means smaller properties with no garaging and without parking facilities outside the property, how many people will be able to charge their vehicles at home?
That is happening already - my house was built in 1990 ish but has no garage, and to charge an EV in my allocated space (when neighbours or visitors aren't using it) I'd need to chuck a cable over my garden fence! 
Dinoboy said:
Can you imagine the impact of wireless charging points for people who don't have their own garages and drives?You get home find someone is parking in your designated parking space and now not only have you no where to park but you won't have the charge to get to work in the morning. Neighbourhood warfare will be rife.
I wonder what the eco warriors will make of it as well, there are already some studies reporting to show concerns with exposure to electromagnetic fields. The field from a wireless charging pad capable of charging an EV is going to be huge.
gothatway said:
a8hex said:
Recharging electric cars at a reasonable rate is going to require that every house in the country is going to need fatter copper cables connecting them to the new power stations.
That presupposes that the current car ownership model persists. I envisage no longer owning my personal car, but every morning as I get out of my shower I summon up a self-driving vehicle which rolls up at the door and takes me to my place of work (assuming they still exist !) Then it it toddles off to a central docking station to await someone else's call.Here's a couple
You get out of your shower go to your summon a ride app and it says the next free AV will be with you in a hour. Society tends to function because most people go to work at the same time. Schools work because all the pupils turn up at the same time as the teachers. So we aren't going to have a uniform demand for these transport devices, we'll see huge peaks and troughs, so it is quite likely that the total number required might not be all that different to the total number of cars now.
You've seen the way other people treat their cars. I'm sure we've all known people where you'd rather walk than get into their cars, or would demand a hazmat suit before your want to enter them. Who's going to take care of these rent-a-rides? Sadly people tend to treat things they don't own even worse than things they do.
For many people their car is their space, they expect to have their things in them.
There was a big survey, I think in Oz, asking about this last year. The researchers thought like you do, what they found is that most potential users of AVs would still expect to have their own.
You could make the same case for homes, you're not their all the time so why do you need one permanently. Surely you could argue that when you're dirty you get out your phone, open the app to find the nearest shower, when you're tired you locate the nearest bed etc. Hell there already apps that let you search the nearest person who fancies sharing one with you.
a8hex said:
Can you imagine the impact of wireless charging points for people who don't have their own garages and drives?
You get home find someone is parking in your designated parking space and now not only have you no where to park but you won't have the charge to get to work in the morning. Neighbourhood warfare will be rife.
I wonder what the eco warriors will make of it as well, there are already some studies reporting to show concerns with exposure to electromagnetic fields. The field from a wireless charging pad capable of charging an EV is going to be huge.
There may come a time when the pads are under every road, every time you stop at the traffic lights you get another 5 miles worth of go. You get home find someone is parking in your designated parking space and now not only have you no where to park but you won't have the charge to get to work in the morning. Neighbourhood warfare will be rife.
I wonder what the eco warriors will make of it as well, there are already some studies reporting to show concerns with exposure to electromagnetic fields. The field from a wireless charging pad capable of charging an EV is going to be huge.
Dinoboy said:
There may come a time when the pads are under every road, every time you stop at the traffic lights you get another 5 miles worth of go.
Given that they can't even keep the current road infrastructure adequately maintained what chance is there of the investment needed for that is ever going to happen?And this still doesn't affect my original comment about copper cabling. Charging electric cars is going to draw a staggering amount of power. The current distribution system just won't be able to cope. The average car is capable of producing more than 100BHP, that's 75KW, assuming we let everyone have 3phase power that means you're going need about 200A to be able to charge a car as fast as it can use power (OK at full chat) and that's in Europe. The US runs at half the voltage and so would need twice the ampage, and that's assuming 100% efficiency which you can't have. Alternatively we are going to need to start making nation grid class 11KV power lines available everywhere. Of course if someone discovers a real room temperature super conductor then everything changes, but until then we are looking at vast quantities of copper.
Edited by a8hex on Sunday 28th January 09:06
Edited by a8hex on Sunday 28th January 12:05
gothatway said:
That presupposes that the current car ownership model persists. I envisage no longer owning my personal car, but every morning as I get out of my shower I summon up a self-driving vehicle which rolls up at the door and takes me to my place of work (assuming they still exist !) Then it it toddles off to a central docking station to await someone else's call.
Says someone who's never shared a car. When it turns up it'll reek of fags, have vomit on the floor and used condoms on the seats, from last night's users.But if you're cool with that, fine.
a8hex said:
Given that they can't even keep the current road infrastructure adequately maintained what chance is there of the investment needed for that is ever going to happen?
And this still doesn't affect my original comment about copper cabling. Charging electric cars is going to draw a staggering amount of power. The current distribution system just won't be able to cope. The average car is capable of producing more than 100BHP, that's 75KW, assuming we let everyone have 3phase power that means you're going need about 200A to be able to charge a car as fast as it can use power (OK at full chat) and that's in Europe. The US runs at half the voltage and so would need twice the ampage, and that's assuming 100% efficiency which you can't have. Alternatively we are going to need to start make nation grid class 11KV power lines available everywhere. Of course if someone discovers a real room temperature super conductor then everything changing, but until then we are looking at vast quantities of copper.
Sensible, realistic 'thinking' people will be 'with you'. I've noticed a number of 'alternative thinking' people have changed their mindsets from 'sitting on the fence' and ignoring the fact that the National Grid is often at 98% capacity at peak times to siding with all the official garbage being put about that the UK is close to being self-sufficient in terms of energy production. That 'thinking' came from one day where consumer demand was at a low point for a short while. With a commensurate reduction in use of fossil fueled electricity generation and with wind farm energy 'filling the gap' we're being led to believe that the UK is well on the way to self sufficiency...........And this still doesn't affect my original comment about copper cabling. Charging electric cars is going to draw a staggering amount of power. The current distribution system just won't be able to cope. The average car is capable of producing more than 100BHP, that's 75KW, assuming we let everyone have 3phase power that means you're going need about 200A to be able to charge a car as fast as it can use power (OK at full chat) and that's in Europe. The US runs at half the voltage and so would need twice the ampage, and that's assuming 100% efficiency which you can't have. Alternatively we are going to need to start make nation grid class 11KV power lines available everywhere. Of course if someone discovers a real room temperature super conductor then everything changing, but until then we are looking at vast quantities of copper.
Edited by a8hex on Sunday 28th January 09:06
The 'alternative' thinkers tell us that use of low energy lighting and other lower wattage appliances are reducing the load on the National Grid. Well, yes they are - and yes they will......but only for a short while, as.....consumers are demanding higher performing luminaires, and many more of them - (so many consumers are of the mindset that as they are low energy they can be left on all day). HMG promises us swathes of new property building to house all the millions of extra people we now have in the country (and what of the energy demands from this?)
All this country needs is a really cold winter where temperatures are minus figures for 5 or 6 weeks to bring all of this in to reality - and we've seen them in the past haven't we!
The current charging network for electric vehicles is a joke. You pay a monthly fee for the privilege of having a charge card (say £5 to £10) - each time you charge the vehicle there may be a connection fee (say £1 to £1-50) and the there is the fee for the amount of time on charge. Even the supposed 'free' charge points arn't really free are they?
Edited by roscobbc on Sunday 28th January 12:28
Edited by roscobbc on Sunday 28th January 12:30
Most aren't old enough to remember 1962/3. Just google it and see. I actually walked on the sea at Southsea it was that cold, the freeze starting on December 26th 1962 ad carrying on until April 1963. There were power cuts galore and we certainly couldn't cope with the power demand today. Here we have had the mildest January for 118 years, but next year could equally be the coldest.
Raygun said:
Slight thread drift but something that was pointed out to me the other day, as time moves on will the enthusiasm for a particular era of cars die out as generations pass away? I'm 55 and have a fondness for the 70s era classics as I can remember seeing them when new but to the people born in the 80s and later will they lack interest in cars made in the 70s, just viewed as nice old cars and not something to lust after! Obviously there is always a desire in old Ferrari's, Porsche's , Aston's etc of any era but I'm on about the rest.
Totally agree with you. I love 60s and 70s cars but all the young, who one day will be the affluent middle income earners who lust after cars, are talking about 1980 and even 1990s models I know sweet FA about. So what to buy to enjoy and won't loose value? Do I go with what I want, but being mid 50s now, the people who will buy them when I want to sell it on, will now be in their 20s now I guess. And they'll want later stuff. And let's be honest, it's way more reliable and easier to use. I have a 1963 Daimler V8 250, great old thing, but fark, how much work to keep the damn thing sweet? A mid 1980s BMW or similar is way more reliable and will appeal to potential buyers in a few years more. Or am I missing something?
petersuper said:
Do I go with what I want, but being mid 50s now, the people who will buy them when I want to sell it on, will now be in their 20s now I guess. And they'll want later stuff.
I'm mid 50's and am just going to enjoy what I've always wanted (when it gets finished!) and to hell with whatever a hot rodded '32 Ford will be worth in 5, 10 or 15 years time when it comes to selling.........Mid 50s too, My classic was from the 1950s, but a large part of me now wants something even older. The more modern my everyday vehicle the more different I want my toy to be. I've driven 60s classics, like E-Types and I don't find them different enough. As for cars from the 1990, well I'd like my X300 back, but I want her back as an everyday car.
lowdrag said:
Most aren't old enough to remember 1962/3. Just google it and see. I actually walked on the sea at Southsea it was that cold, the freeze starting on December 26th 1962 ad carrying on until April 1963. There were power cuts galore and we certainly couldn't cope with the power demand today. Here we have had the mildest January for 118 years, but next year could equally be the coldest.
I remember the big freeze - walking to school for weeks with packed show on the roads and pavements. Power cuts back then didn't mean as much as they do now as many houses had gas fires and conventional fireplaces and hearths so could use coal or coke - seem to recall these running short....electricity cuts may have meant no heating for some though. With minimal car ownership then and skinny cross plies people seemed to get around, buses ran - the world continued. roscobbc said:
I remember the big freeze - walking to school for weeks with packed show on the roads and pavements. Power cuts back then didn't mean as much as they do now as many houses had gas fires and conventional fireplaces and hearths so could use coal or coke - seem to recall these running short....electricity cuts may have meant no heating for some though. With minimal car ownership then and skinny cross plies people seemed to get around, buses ran - the world continued.
I just about remember it - I was 4 at the time! My Dad had a 1954 Austin A40 Somerset and the back axle broke a couple of miles from home!
Mum, my sister and I had to get the bus home and Dad had the car recovered - later that year he joined the RAC!
Luckily a couple of days earlier he had gone to the local coal distributor and bought a few bags of coal and coke - they were too busy to deliver!
But imagine trying to run an EV in the 3-day week era of the 70s - we got sent home from school when the electricity went off. That way we could sit in the dark at home instead!
Sadly we had no gas - Dad worked for the Central Electricity Generating Board so anything gas powered was a no-no!
Mr Tidy said:
I just about remember it - I was 4 at the time!
My Dad had a 1954 Austin A40 Somerset and the back axle broke a couple of miles from home!
Mum, my sister and I had to get the bus home and Dad had the car recovered - later that year he joined the RAC!
Luckily a couple of days earlier he had gone to the local coal distributor and bought a few bags of coal and coke - they were too busy to deliver!
But imagine trying to run an EV in the 3-day week era of the 70s - we got sent home from school when the electricity went off. That way we could sit in the dark at home instead!
Sadly we had no gas - Dad worked for the Central Electricity Generating Board so anything gas powered was a no-no!
I forgot all about the 3 day week - I was working in a retail shop then - when the power was off, out came the camping Gaz lamps. How do we think businesses would cope now wit power 'outages' and cash registers and 'puter systems?My Dad had a 1954 Austin A40 Somerset and the back axle broke a couple of miles from home!
Mum, my sister and I had to get the bus home and Dad had the car recovered - later that year he joined the RAC!
Luckily a couple of days earlier he had gone to the local coal distributor and bought a few bags of coal and coke - they were too busy to deliver!
But imagine trying to run an EV in the 3-day week era of the 70s - we got sent home from school when the electricity went off. That way we could sit in the dark at home instead!
Sadly we had no gas - Dad worked for the Central Electricity Generating Board so anything gas powered was a no-no!
roscobbc said:
I forgot all about the 3 day week - I was working in a retail shop then - when the power was off, out came the camping Gaz lamps. How do we think businesses would cope now wit power 'outages' and cash registers and 'puter systems?
I suspect we'll all get to find out soon 
petersuper said:
Raygun said:
Slight thread drift but something that was pointed out to me the other day, as time moves on will the enthusiasm for a particular era of cars die out as generations pass away? I'm 55 and have a fondness for the 70s era classics as I can remember seeing them when new but to the people born in the 80s and later will they lack interest in cars made in the 70s, just viewed as nice old cars and not something to lust after! Obviously there is always a desire in old Ferrari's, Porsche's , Aston's etc of any era but I'm on about the rest.
Totally agree with you. I love 60s and 70s cars but all the young, who one day will be the affluent middle income earners who lust after cars, are talking about 1980 and even 1990s models I know sweet FA about. So what to buy to enjoy and won't loose value? Do I go with what I want, but being mid 50s now, the people who will buy them when I want to sell it on, will now be in their 20s now I guess. And they'll want later stuff. And let's be honest, it's way more reliable and easier to use. I have a 1963 Daimler V8 250, great old thing, but fark, how much work to keep the damn thing sweet? A mid 1980s BMW or similar is way more reliable and will appeal to potential buyers in a few years more. Or am I missing something?
I'll probably regret selling my stag, I'd owned it for 12 years, it was fourth one I'd owned and fancied a change but I don't really know what to get, something like a XJS convertible becomes virtually unworkable on unlike my old stag and your Daimler V8.
Now JD classics have gone bust will the panic selling set in?
The prices at Anglia auction look a lot lower & some of the values the owners received at Goodwood after almost 40% in costs (buyers premium, sellers commission, Vat, transport, Broshire space, cleaning etc) looked very soft.
H&H estimates are way lower than 12 months ago for their next auction.
I was talking to a chap at Goodwood who reckons his E Type he is selling has dropped 18k in a year, almost as much depreciation percentage as a new one did!
The prices at Anglia auction look a lot lower & some of the values the owners received at Goodwood after almost 40% in costs (buyers premium, sellers commission, Vat, transport, Broshire space, cleaning etc) looked very soft.
H&H estimates are way lower than 12 months ago for their next auction.
I was talking to a chap at Goodwood who reckons his E Type he is selling has dropped 18k in a year, almost as much depreciation percentage as a new one did!
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