Tell me about British Leyland
Discussion
sideways man said:
I passed my test in an allegro; it seemed alright to me 
Did look for a 1750 HL a few years later, but they were like hens teeth even back then. Ended up with a marina 1.8 in dayglo orange. Had to change the water pump in Exeter services, good thing cars were simple back then...
My Dad had one of the first 1750SS from new in 1974 and I drove it quite often. It was nice car- brisk rather than fast but made up for it by very predictable behaviour and could be pushed along Welsh B Roads as fast as anything you were likely to meet. Also, like a modern car on a motorway- 85mph all day, little affected by crosswinds. Easy to overlook how unusual that was in 1974 - Mk2 Escort 1.6 could cruise at 85mph in theory but it was hard work keeping it in a straight line unless there was no crosswind, and even then you would be affected by the wash of every big truck you passed. Did look for a 1750 HL a few years later, but they were like hens teeth even back then. Ended up with a marina 1.8 in dayglo orange. Had to change the water pump in Exeter services, good thing cars were simple back then...
And the Allegro was far more comfortable as well as being a better drive.
And by 1974 standards it was not bad at resisting rust.
Joining in the thread! My dad was a toolmaker and later a draughtsman for Pressed Steel Fisher, which came under the umbrella of BL at Castle Bromwich.
As a 5yo in 1977 I walked round the plant there on a staff open day watching body panels being stamped by huge press tools, which have always fascinated me. I think they were doing Jag XJS body panels (my dad worked on the C-pillar tooling) and I got a kids Jaguar t-shirt on the day that I still own and my own 5yo now wears, the shirt has lasted longer than most of the cars!
The Red Robbo era was very tough for us as a young family: one income, three kids under 5, factory constantly going on strike. My Dad was originally part of the union but as time went on he saw it as being totally militant and ultimately self defeating. He got made redundant in 1981 after 20 yrs with an £8k pay-off. Seemed a huge amount to the 9yo me!
He later worked in tooling design for LDV Vans in its various form (Freight Rover, Leyland Daf, LDV Vans) which was a rollercoaster 20yrs of boom and bust. It took him all over the world though, and on the affiliated Rover Management Car Plan we were allowed two cars as part of his package. In the mid 80s to 90s we had:
4 x Montegos (MG and VDP)
3 x Austin MG Metros
2 x Rover Metro GTas
2 x Rover 400s
2 x Rover 600s
3 x Rover 800s.
All of those cars were run for 11 months and generally thrashed to within an inch of their lives, requiring only fuel and servicing, and none of them ever went wrong, they were all great cars in our custody.
We bought the final Metro GTa which survived a high speed collision with my brother at the helm, but the 'insurance approved' repair didn't quite get the bent roof straight, so it had a door seal problem which let in a load of damp, and was then stolen from my office car park in Reading by having the doors crow-barred open. It was found, unceremoniously dumped on the middle of Sherpherd's Bush roundabout, abandoned in the middle lane on a Saturday night with both doors wide open and a rag hanging out of the broken off fuel filler! That wrote it off, and was the last Rover any of us owned, sadly.
One of the MG Metros spent a lot of time parked in secluded farm tracks of the West Midlands with the 17yo me becoming acquainted with the delights of the fairer sex on its grey velour back seat with fetching red seat belts. I occasionally check them out on eBay .... if only I had the space there would be one on the fleet!
As a 5yo in 1977 I walked round the plant there on a staff open day watching body panels being stamped by huge press tools, which have always fascinated me. I think they were doing Jag XJS body panels (my dad worked on the C-pillar tooling) and I got a kids Jaguar t-shirt on the day that I still own and my own 5yo now wears, the shirt has lasted longer than most of the cars!
The Red Robbo era was very tough for us as a young family: one income, three kids under 5, factory constantly going on strike. My Dad was originally part of the union but as time went on he saw it as being totally militant and ultimately self defeating. He got made redundant in 1981 after 20 yrs with an £8k pay-off. Seemed a huge amount to the 9yo me!
He later worked in tooling design for LDV Vans in its various form (Freight Rover, Leyland Daf, LDV Vans) which was a rollercoaster 20yrs of boom and bust. It took him all over the world though, and on the affiliated Rover Management Car Plan we were allowed two cars as part of his package. In the mid 80s to 90s we had:
4 x Montegos (MG and VDP)
3 x Austin MG Metros
2 x Rover Metro GTas
2 x Rover 400s
2 x Rover 600s
3 x Rover 800s.
All of those cars were run for 11 months and generally thrashed to within an inch of their lives, requiring only fuel and servicing, and none of them ever went wrong, they were all great cars in our custody.
We bought the final Metro GTa which survived a high speed collision with my brother at the helm, but the 'insurance approved' repair didn't quite get the bent roof straight, so it had a door seal problem which let in a load of damp, and was then stolen from my office car park in Reading by having the doors crow-barred open. It was found, unceremoniously dumped on the middle of Sherpherd's Bush roundabout, abandoned in the middle lane on a Saturday night with both doors wide open and a rag hanging out of the broken off fuel filler! That wrote it off, and was the last Rover any of us owned, sadly.
One of the MG Metros spent a lot of time parked in secluded farm tracks of the West Midlands with the 17yo me becoming acquainted with the delights of the fairer sex on its grey velour back seat with fetching red seat belts. I occasionally check them out on eBay .... if only I had the space there would be one on the fleet!
Edited by PurpleTurtle on Wednesday 21st October 22:58
PurpleTurtle said:
The Red Robbo era was very tough for us as a young family: one income, three kids under 5, factory constantly going on strike. My Dad was originally part of the union but as time went on he saw it as being totally militant and ultimately self defeating. He got made redundant in 1981 after 20 yrs with an £8k pay-off. Seemed a huge amount to the 9yo me!
He later worked in tooling design for LDV Vans in its various form (Freight Rover, Leyland Daf, LDV Vans) which was a rollercoaster 20yrs of boom and bust. It took him all over the world though, and on the affiliated Rover Management Car Plan we were allowed two cars as part of his package. In the mid 80s to 90s we had:
4 x Montegos (MG and VDP)
3 x Austin MG Metros
2 x Rover Metro GTas
2 x Rover 400s
2 x Rover 600s
3 x Rover 800s.
All of those cars were run for 11 months and generally thrashed to within an inch of their lives, requiring only fuel and servicing, and none of them ever went wrong, they were all great cars in our custody.
Edited by PurpleTurtle on Wednesday 21st October 22:58
Even BL garbage tended to manage 11 months! (But not much longer).
cardigankid said:
I remember it different. Up until the late 60's, British cars, Rootes or BMC products, were seen as better quality. Ford was big in the UK but seen as the 'big pennyworth', which is to say that it was thinner metal, plenty of chrome, good looks - Cortina and Capri. German & Japanese cars were considered to be rust prone, and they were. Then they caught up, and overtook. The rest of the world has caught up, a bit, but the gold standard remains Mercedes, BMW, Audi, VW, Porsche.
Oh goody, they're a "gold standard" are they. I'll go and tell the MOT technician that's just found large rust holes in structural bits on the bottom the other half's Merc they're a figment of his imagination. German cars rust to. Early noughties ones were infamous for it. Looks like they've got on top of some of the body work issues but there are other bits on cars where rust can cause problems too. At least our Merc dealer handles the situation in an exemplary way. The other German car in the house hold has rear brakes that stick on, that's most likely caused by rust too if the descriptions I've read online are anything to go by. OpulentBob said:
If you go to India, you'll see lots of old BL bus designs, now badged as Ashok Leyland. Got the same plug hole logo and everything.
South of Stone on the A34 there is an old BL dealership, it’s an antique place now, up until recently it still had illuminated AustinRover signs still up.a8hex said:
cardigankid said:
I remember it different. Up until the late 60's, British cars, Rootes or BMC products, were seen as better quality. Ford was big in the UK but seen as the 'big pennyworth', which is to say that it was thinner metal, plenty of chrome, good looks - Cortina and Capri. German & Japanese cars were considered to be rust prone, and they were. Then they caught up, and overtook. The rest of the world has caught up, a bit, but the gold standard remains Mercedes, BMW, Audi, VW, Porsche.
Oh goody, they're a "gold standard" are they. I'll go and tell the MOT technician that's just found large rust holes in structural bits on the bottom the other half's Merc they're a figment of his imagination. German cars rust to. Early noughties ones were infamous for it. Looks like they've got on top of some of the body work issues but there are other bits on cars where rust can cause problems too. At least our Merc dealer handles the situation in an exemplary way. The other German car in the house hold has rear brakes that stick on, that's most likely caused by rust too if the descriptions I've read online are anything to go by. They are pretty cheap and nasty in my opinion. But I’ve never bought for reliability.
Halmyre said:
Rover had a V8 and Triumph had 4 and 6 cylinder engines. So when Rover wanted 4 and 6 cylinder SD1s and Triumph wanted a V8 Stag, did they rationalise? No, they wouldn't be seen dead doing that, so they developed their own engines.
Actually the Rover SD1 six cylinder engines were developed by Triumph from, and as replacements for, their ageing sixes.Which is probably why they had fundamental design faults.
StuntmanMike said:
OpulentBob said:
If you go to India, you'll see lots of old BL bus designs, now badged as Ashok Leyland. Got the same plug hole logo and everything.
South of Stone on the A34 there is an old BL dealership, it’s an antique place now, up until recently it still had illuminated AustinRover signs still up.https://www.aronline.co.uk/facts-and-figures/histo...
StuntmanMike said:
I’ve owned three BMWs. Because I like the cars I bought. I would never rave about their reliability because I dont rate them in that respect at all.
They are pretty cheap and nasty in my opinion. But I’ve never bought for reliability.
Well, not in mine, I've done 75k over 4 years in my 520d and it has never missed a beat, good as new in many respects. They are pretty cheap and nasty in my opinion. But I’ve never bought for reliability.
I agree about Merc in the early noughties, but they got that back under control. Still way ahead of JLR products. Anyway, whatever the Germans decide to do, I can tell you that car manufacturing doesn't have a future in the UK, and that is coming from the top.
Edited by cardigankid on Thursday 22 October 09:16
cardigankid said:
StuntmanMike said:
I’ve owned three BMWs. Because I like the cars I bought. I would never rave about their reliability because I dont rate them in that respect at all.
They are pretty cheap and nasty in my opinion. But I’ve never bought for reliability.
Well, not in mine, I've done 75k over 4 years in my 520d and it has never missed a beat, good as new in many respects. They are pretty cheap and nasty in my opinion. But I’ve never bought for reliability.
I agree about Merc in the early noughties, but they got that back under control. Still way ahead of JLR products. Anyway, whatever the Germans decide to do, I can tell you that car manufacturing doesn't have a future in the UK, and that is coming from the top.
Edited by cardigankid on Thursday 22 October 09:16
Way to many inherent faults that get carried over from generation to generation, rust, to much plastic s
t that doesn’t age.My 550 is a lovely thing, the engineering on it is utterly s
t.cardigankid said:
StuntmanMike said:
I’ve owned three BMWs. Because I like the cars I bought. I would never rave about their reliability because I dont rate them in that respect at all.
They are pretty cheap and nasty in my opinion. But I’ve never bought for reliability.
Well, not in mine, I've done 75k over 4 years in my 520d and it has never missed a beat, good as new in many respects. They are pretty cheap and nasty in my opinion. But I’ve never bought for reliability.
I agree about Merc in the early noughties, but they got that back under control. Still way ahead of JLR products. Anyway, whatever the Germans decide to do, I can tell you that car manufacturing doesn't have a future in the UK, and that is coming from the top.
'manufacturing doesn't have a future in the UK, and that is coming from the top'
The recent car news about UK trying to call Japanese car parts British so as to meet UK quota regs for British produced cars, should force companies to make the parts in the UK.
or maybe not
Breadvan72 said:
Sebastian Tombs said:
Actually the Rover SD1 six cylinder engines were developed by Triumph from, and as replacements for, their ageing sixes.
Which is probably why they had fundamental design faults.
Please name those faults.Which is probably why they had fundamental design faults.
Have you ever driven a car with one of these engines?
See about 2/3 way down
https://www.aronline.co.uk/engines/engines-rover-s...
"About 2/3 of the way down" a long page of comments. Thanks for being so helpful and clear!
The engine was under-developed. It had a one way valve that restricted oil flow into the cam box. That valve would get jammed, especially if the owner did not change the oil regularly. That would destroy the engine. The line workers sometimes took the valve out. Without the valve, and with careful maintenance, it's a good engine. It could have been developed with a second camshaft, extra valves, and fuel injection, but that was not to be.
The engine was under-developed. It had a one way valve that restricted oil flow into the cam box. That valve would get jammed, especially if the owner did not change the oil regularly. That would destroy the engine. The line workers sometimes took the valve out. Without the valve, and with careful maintenance, it's a good engine. It could have been developed with a second camshaft, extra valves, and fuel injection, but that was not to be.
Breadvan72 said:
Please name those faults.
Have you ever driven a car with one of these engines?
Yes, I had a Rover 2300.Have you ever driven a car with one of these engines?
I bought it with 45000 miles on the clock, and it was a lovely smooth engine and a pleasure to own.
However it had already had a new cylinder head, due to the well-known oil starvation issue. You know the one.
It had also had a new water pump, though that was probably just a manufacturing defect
Breadvan72 said:
"About 2/3 of the way down" a long page of comments. Thanks for being so helpful and clear!'Known problems
The most widely known point of failure was the abnormally high incidence of camshaft and valve gear failure, resulting from blockages to the oil feed passage to the camshaft and valve rockers. The system was designed to provide an intermittent oil feed to limit the amount of oil in the top end and thereby reduce oil consumption – standard engineering practice, but in this application sludge build up could block the oil supply completely with disastrous results.It might also be speculated that the Dolomite Sprint-inspired valve gear had a particularly hard job – each cam had twice the normal amount of work to do, and in the six-cylinder engines also had to cope with far larger valves and consequently stronger springs than the 16-valve four. What is certain was that the situation was not helped by the lengthening of oil change intervals from 6000 to 12,000 miles with the 1982 facelift.
In the 1970s and 1980s top end problems were widespread among the new breed of OHC engines. As well as the Triumph engines mentioned previously, Ford’s Pinto and CVH engines and their GM competitors suffered a variety of wear, lubrication, sealing and gasket frailties.
Not fixing the known problems
Nevertheless, Leyland’s failure to make the changes necessary to address their new engine’s Achilles Heel as soon as the first failures became evident seems like an act of serious commercial negligence, given that the engine was a showpiece for the company’s engineering capabilities, and that a sustained reputation for poor build quality and unreliability across the entire product range was setting sales of most of their products on a downward spiral.
Production of the SD1 six ended in May 1986. Despite an existence lived out in the permanent shadow of the charismatic V8, the six-cylinder engines powered almost exactly half the 303,345 SD1s produced. The 2600 was unquestionably the more popular six, accounting for 35.6 per cent of overall SD1 production. For comparison, the equivalent percentages for the 2300 and all V8s are 14.2 per cent and 37.6 per cent respectively.'
Mr Tidy said:
My 1970 Fiat 125 was also quite happy to sit comfortably at 85 on the motorway, although to be fair my Rover 1973 3500S would happily sit in three figures. 
:
Well the Rover (lovely car- I'd wouldn't mind one now!) was in a different class, and Fiats were just better drives than many of their equivalents in the UK. I had a 124 Sport Coupe that would do that too. Far better than an MGB. But the UK competition for the Allegro in 1974 was mainly the RWD Escort, Viva and Avenger none of which drove as much like a modern car. : mac96 said:
But the UK competition for the Allegro in 1974 was mainly the RWD Escort, Viva and Avenger none of which drove as much like a modern car.
You mean a softly sprung FWD car.Having only ever been passengered in an Allegro, I can't say it stood out as anything other than bouncy mediocrity.
When I was passengered in an Alfasud Ti, that was mind-blowing.
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