Tell me about British Leyland
Discussion
saaby93 said:
What about the way BL was a seed for other car companies?
Triumph engine for SAAB is well known
Nissan Micra engine came from BL has been upgraded to be suitable for transplants back into BL.
Again, not technically BL, but Nissan (Datsun...) essentially owes its existence as a post-war car maker to Austin and BMC. Not forgetting how the early Datsuns in the 1930s were (originally unlicensed) Austin Seven clones. Triumph engine for SAAB is well known
Nissan Micra engine came from BL has been upgraded to be suitable for transplants back into BL.
Datsun restarted car production making A40 Devons under license. The Nissan A and E Engines are an improved A-Series and the Nissan J Engine is an eight-port B-Series. As late as the early 60s the 310-Series Bluebird is basically a reskinned (and much more mechanically solid) A40 Cambridge.
Ironically Austin was so sceptical about letting the Japanese build 'their' cars that they were absolutely ruthless about instilling the highest possible build and QC standards - standards that they never even required, let alon achieved, at home. One of the Austin engineers sent out to liaise with Nissan wrote back saying that it seemed unreasonable to declare Datsun-built A40s as rejects just because they had chalk dust residue on the door seals, when removing the dust wasn't even required at Longbridge. The same guy compiled a report on his return about how Datsun had managed to achieve such high build standards - a report that was immediately filed away and ignored as irrelevant.
2xChevrons said:
saaby93 said:
What about the way BL was a seed for other car companies?
Triumph engine for SAAB is well known
Nissan Micra engine came from BL has been upgraded to be suitable for transplants back into BL.
Again, not technically BL, but Nissan (Datsun...) essentially owes its existence as a post-war car maker to Austin and BMC. Not forgetting how the early Datsuns in the 1930s were (originally unlicensed) Austin Seven clones. Triumph engine for SAAB is well known
Nissan Micra engine came from BL has been upgraded to be suitable for transplants back into BL.
Datsun restarted car production making A40 Devons under license. The Nissan A and E Engines are an improved A-Series and the Nissan J Engine is an eight-port B-Series. As late as the early 60s the 310-Series Bluebird is basically a reskinned (and much more mechanically solid) A40 Cambridge.
Ironically Austin was so sceptical about letting the Japanese build 'their' cars that they were absolutely ruthless about instilling the highest possible build and QC standards - standards that they never even required, let alon achieved, at home. One of the Austin engineers sent out to liaise with Nissan wrote back saying that it seemed unreasonable to declare Datsun-built A40s as rejects just because they had chalk dust residue on the door seals, when removing the dust wasn't even required at Longbridge. The same guy compiled a report on his return about how Datsun had managed to achieve such high build standards - a report that was immediately filed away and ignored as irrelevant.
Only my personal feelings but none of their cars were inherently “rubbish” they just fell behind the development curve of their competitors.
BL was a wierd mish mash of half developed good ideas that ran out of budget resulting in a serious compromise.
Engines from Italy were miles ahead at all levels, but then with the wheezy junk that Ford and GM had in most of their range at the time you can see why they didn’t have an incentive to blow the budget. In its day the Maestro looked modern, with a modern engine that was a car that was better than a Golf.
Engines from Italy were miles ahead at all levels, but then with the wheezy junk that Ford and GM had in most of their range at the time you can see why they didn’t have an incentive to blow the budget. In its day the Maestro looked modern, with a modern engine that was a car that was better than a Golf.
Mikebentley said:
Rover 800’s were another I liked driving again in all engine and trim types and the 800 2dr was a stunning design.
The 800 had a terrific chassis and did drive well.However, the interior's were of awful quality though, and the electrics were up to Italian levels of quality too.
aeropilot said:
Mikebentley said:
Rover 800’s were another I liked driving again in all engine and trim types and the 800 2dr was a stunning design.
The 800 had a terrific chassis and did drive well.However, the interior's were of awful quality though, and the electrics were up to Italian levels of quality too.
I have three 800s.. Fastback on LPG, 820 saloon and a Vitesse (Turbo Coupe). The coupe is very stylish. And rare.
AlmondGreen said:
In the mid-1970s Car Magazine customised a Marina Estate. The renamed Marauder had various cosmetic changes, improved suspension and slightly modified engine to make it more appealing. See https://www.flickriver.com/photos/triggerscarstuff... for the detail.
Thanks for that - it was an interesting project, which as a long-time CAR reader I'd not seen before.Mr Tidy said:
williamp said:
So do we need a "good things about BL" or "BL got their first" list??
- The sporting Marina used red trim on the grill... before the sporting Golf made it a trademark
-Triumph put a powerful engine in a small saloon, with four headlights.... Before BMW made it their trademark
-Triumph were early pioneers in fuel injection, offering it over a wide range of models.
-the Range Rover
-The Land Rover
-The XJ12 was faster, better handling and smoother then anything from Mercedes or BMW at the time. Or perhaps Rolls Royce too
-The Mini
-Selling saloon cars with an all alloy V8 engine. Yes it started as an American unit, but that engine in a saloon car. Fantastic.
In parts maybe, like the red grille! - The sporting Marina used red trim on the grill... before the sporting Golf made it a trademark
-Triumph put a powerful engine in a small saloon, with four headlights.... Before BMW made it their trademark
-Triumph were early pioneers in fuel injection, offering it over a wide range of models.
-the Range Rover
-The Land Rover
-The XJ12 was faster, better handling and smoother then anything from Mercedes or BMW at the time. Or perhaps Rolls Royce too
-The Mini
-Selling saloon cars with an all alloy V8 engine. Yes it started as an American unit, but that engine in a saloon car. Fantastic.
Fiat put a 75 bhp engine in a small saloon with 4 headlights in 1961 by all accounts which was more powerful than the 1600 Vitesse. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_1300_and_1500
Triumph may have adopted FI early on, but it was a terrible application by all accounts. Why use parts supplied by the prince of darkness (unless they were cheap)!
The Range Rover was just a copy of earlier Jeep models.
Much the same as the LR was a copy of the WW2 Jeep.
Although the XJ12 seemed fantastic back in the 70s!
The Mini was impressive, but it didn't do much more than the Fiat 500 Nuova that was released years before.
I had a P6B with the alloy V8 in the 80s but it didn't do anything my Capri with a Cologne V6 couldn't do!
They just mostly seemed like 2nd/3rd rate options to me - which is probably why I only had one before I moved on and have never looked back.
williamp said:
So do we need a "good things about BL" or "BL got their first" list??
Early this millennium I was working on a program adding an independent steering axis to a macpherson strut suspension for the high performance derivative. The company did a patent search and found that the original patent was with BL. A sign of interesting things happening that didn't see the light of day.
I hit hard times in the early 80's and the only car that seemed dirt cheap was 11/1300 saloons.
Considering they were almost at the end of their lives the handling and quietness was brilliant. the engines always smoked a little but were dead reliable. I suppose by then they were not fashionable.
They were rust buckets though with a habit of dropping the rear subframe because the heel board had rotted out.
When I got a better job I was talked into buying a 6 year old 2 door Ford Escort, crude, noisy, the engine sounded like a bag of spanners and the handling was awful, why the misty eyes over that one I will never know, clever marketing I guess.
The Rover SD1 was bloody good car, just built poorly and with the penny pinching always had a cheap feel to it inside.
The Marina was a dog even though it was reliable, if you consider how much it cost to 'develop' and what was presented I imagine a lot of incompetence and backhanders went on there.
Considering they were almost at the end of their lives the handling and quietness was brilliant. the engines always smoked a little but were dead reliable. I suppose by then they were not fashionable.
They were rust buckets though with a habit of dropping the rear subframe because the heel board had rotted out.
When I got a better job I was talked into buying a 6 year old 2 door Ford Escort, crude, noisy, the engine sounded like a bag of spanners and the handling was awful, why the misty eyes over that one I will never know, clever marketing I guess.
The Rover SD1 was bloody good car, just built poorly and with the penny pinching always had a cheap feel to it inside.
The Marina was a dog even though it was reliable, if you consider how much it cost to 'develop' and what was presented I imagine a lot of incompetence and backhanders went on there.
Yertis said:
Triumph introduced the “Targa” top long before Porsche.
Technically the "Surrey Top" first appeared on the 1950s Fiat Wonderful Coupe which was designed by Michelotti, as was the TR4.However, Porsche's 1966 Targa idea was more about having the permanent thick rollover bar as well because the US wanted to ban convertibles.
saaby93 said:
I knew someone that I'm sure had an MG version of one of those
They never did an MG version of the ADO16 estate (shame really, they could have dusted off the Sportsman name), although you could Frankenstein one together with the front panelwork of an MG and the back of a Countryman/Traveller.They did do the MG with the two-door body, which had the same forward-raked rear window shape as the estate but lacked the top-hinged tailgate.
2xChevrons said:
saaby93 said:
I knew someone that I'm sure had an MG version of one of those
They never did an MG version of the ADO16 estate (shame really, they could have dusted off the Sportsman name), although you could Frankenstein one together with the front panelwork of an MG and the back of a Countryman/Traveller.They did do the MG with the two-door body, which had the same forward-raked rear window shape as the estate but lacked the top-hinged tailgate.
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