Tell me about British Leyland
Discussion
Dr Jekyll said:
To be honest they did try and define the brands better in the 70s and 80s.
The rough idea was:
Morris. Conventional with RWD. mass market.
Austin. Technically clever FWD mass market.
Triumph. Slightly classier and sportier but still mass market.
Rover. A bit upmarket, 'young exec'.
Jaguar. Luxury.
Riley, Wolseley etc, done away with.
Ta The rough idea was:
Morris. Conventional with RWD. mass market.
Austin. Technically clever FWD mass market.
Triumph. Slightly classier and sportier but still mass market.
Rover. A bit upmarket, 'young exec'.
Jaguar. Luxury.
Riley, Wolseley etc, done away with.
overunder12g said:
I bought a new TR7 in 1977
Picage
linkage
http://www.littledoggarage.com/tr77581.html
This staff training film from the 70s gives you a great insight into how they worked 
:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRyN4XhJ_ms
:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRyN4XhJ_ms
fido said:
swisstoni said:
I really hope there won’t be a similar thread in about 20 years called Tell Me About The NHS but I fear their might.
Surely the NHS is a result of the same sort of thinking as BL - nationalised inefficiency. iSore said:
aaron_2000 said:
I just can't imagine living in a time where that would happen, where you'd be scrapping an 11 month old car
It didn't.Sorry, but I remember 120Y's as new cars and they weren't being scrapped after 11 months.
The worst cars for rot were early Alfasuds and they were often beyond repair at 3-4 years old but 11 months? No chance. That's nonsense.
BL also suffered because they lost a lot of the overseas market.
For example, here in Australia (and lots of the US) rust wasn't that much of a problem unless you owned an Alfasud.
The Corollas, Datsuns, etc just worked. They ran and ran and ran, while BL cars got a dreadful reputation for oil leaks, electrical problems, and general unreliability.
They were also woefully obsolete in the engine / gearbox design in particular.
The other area the Japanese were miles ahead was in ease of servicing and repair.
My first car was a (second hand) 1967 Corolla. It had an alloy head 1100, aluminium inlet manifold, aluminium case 4 speed gearbox, and was as unkillable as a cockroach.
I later fitted front disks and 5 speed box from a 1972 model, IIRC. We looked at a Marina before buying the Corolla, and it could have been a 20 year older design.
Also compare the Corolla with the '67? Triumph Herald I bought later - asthmatic gutless engine made from locomotive sized chunks of cast iron, clunky 4 speed box, and needed twice as many tools to do the same jobs. The best thing I did to the Herald was fit the Corolla engine & g'box. Not only was it quicker and nicer to drive, removing about 30kg from the nose made it handle a lot better.
It wasn't just the Japanese either : I compete in a 1968 Fiat - twincam, front disks, etc. etc.
For example, here in Australia (and lots of the US) rust wasn't that much of a problem unless you owned an Alfasud.
The Corollas, Datsuns, etc just worked. They ran and ran and ran, while BL cars got a dreadful reputation for oil leaks, electrical problems, and general unreliability.
They were also woefully obsolete in the engine / gearbox design in particular.
The other area the Japanese were miles ahead was in ease of servicing and repair.
My first car was a (second hand) 1967 Corolla. It had an alloy head 1100, aluminium inlet manifold, aluminium case 4 speed gearbox, and was as unkillable as a cockroach.
I later fitted front disks and 5 speed box from a 1972 model, IIRC. We looked at a Marina before buying the Corolla, and it could have been a 20 year older design.
Also compare the Corolla with the '67? Triumph Herald I bought later - asthmatic gutless engine made from locomotive sized chunks of cast iron, clunky 4 speed box, and needed twice as many tools to do the same jobs. The best thing I did to the Herald was fit the Corolla engine & g'box. Not only was it quicker and nicer to drive, removing about 30kg from the nose made it handle a lot better.
It wasn't just the Japanese either : I compete in a 1968 Fiat - twincam, front disks, etc. etc.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
NHS employees, by and large, actually care about the product they are delivering, and the organisation they work for, and want it to be the best it can be. A bit different from BL.
I doubt very much if each and every one of 1.5 million staff in the NHS is any harder working or dedicated than say, other Civil Servants, for example. The Pareto principle says that 20% of the workers produce 80% of the result .. well that's a lot of slackers in an organisation of that size! Likewise I'm sure there were reasonably dedicated staff in part of BL despite poor decisions made by those above them.fido said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
NHS employees, by and large, actually care about the product they are delivering, and the organisation they work for, and want it to be the best it can be. A bit different from BL.
I doubt very much if each and every one of 1.5 million staff in the NHS is any harder working or dedicated than say, other Civil Servants, for example. The Pareto principle says that 20% of the workers produce 80% of the result .. well that's a lot of slackers in an organisation of that size! Likewise I'm sure there were reasonably dedicated staff in part of BL despite poor decisions made by those above them.
p1esk said:
Dunno, I never saw it as particularly attractive, especially the rear end, which i thought looked too bulky: but then I think that about a lot of current models.
Incidentally, somebody once told me that the roof panel on the SD1 was fixed to the rest of the bodyshell using pop rivets. Could that be true?
The SD1 wasn't a bad design, but the Mark II Granada was vastly superior. German built, really crisp styling, IRS and the V6. The 2.3 wasn't a fast car but it was so smooth and quiet, and the GL package was a good one when the car had a good metallic colour. Incidentally, somebody once told me that the roof panel on the SD1 was fixed to the rest of the bodyshell using pop rivets. Could that be true?
Then the E28 5 Series arrived around 1981 and it was game over. The difference in build quality was just astonishing.
Edited by iSore on Tuesday 20th February 14:17
Reading PH's these days has become a shadow of its former self due to bickering and silly comments/threads and this is such a welcome change and what PH used to be like for those of us that have been here for a good few years.
So not really on-topic (apologies) but just wanted to say what a great thread this is, partly thanks to 2xChevrons but others knowledgable input too. Cheers gents for reminding me that there is some good info still to be found on this site these days
So not really on-topic (apologies) but just wanted to say what a great thread this is, partly thanks to 2xChevrons but others knowledgable input too. Cheers gents for reminding me that there is some good info still to be found on this site these days
We had a Princess company car around 1979/80, a metallic pale blue 1700HL with the good old 'Ohhhhhhhh Series' donk. In about 100k and three years it required a clutch, a rad and a battery. It was used for towing a box trailer occasionally, something it did very well. It wasn't a bad car really - I can still recall the hisssssssss of the PAS and the drop gear whine they all had, but it was insanely comfy and surprisingly reliable. These were all Cowley built and like Maxis, if you got a good one owners would defend them fiercely.
Edited by iSore on Tuesday 20th February 14:24
Growing up in with my parents and older brother, it told a tale of two sides. My dad had his first (and only) Datsun in 1978, a big 240 4-door saloon, can't remember this exact model. A big auto in which the rear seats and boot absolutely stank of petrol fumes. I never saw him work on it.
Then he bought his first Volvo estate in 1979, a plum coloured 245DL. He went on to have two more 240's then a 940 estate which was incomparable in quality to the 240's. Again, they posed no problems and I never saw him work on any.
My brother however, whenever I came home from school he'd be working on his car. From memory he had;
A Morris Minor - ex postie van
Hillman Avenger
Maxi x 2 1750cc
Dolomite 1850HL
Austin Maestro
Datsun 120y (probably his must reliable, can't remember it rusting)
Fiat 127 (this was actually OK!)
My memories of him in those years were always swearing underneath the bonnet.
Then he bought his first Volvo estate in 1979, a plum coloured 245DL. He went on to have two more 240's then a 940 estate which was incomparable in quality to the 240's. Again, they posed no problems and I never saw him work on any.
My brother however, whenever I came home from school he'd be working on his car. From memory he had;
A Morris Minor - ex postie van
Hillman Avenger
Maxi x 2 1750cc
Dolomite 1850HL
Austin Maestro
Datsun 120y (probably his must reliable, can't remember it rusting)
Fiat 127 (this was actually OK!)
My memories of him in those years were always swearing underneath the bonnet.
NotNormal said:
So not really on-topic (apologies) but just wanted to say what a great thread this is, partly thanks to 2xChevrons but others knowledgable input too. Cheers gents for reminding me that there is some good info still to be found on this site these days
Completely agree, a fascinating thread and I was just about to post the same. DDg said:
Good YouTube video about the British Leyland Speke Plant Closure
People say "Red Robbo", "Unions", "Lazy Factory Floor Workers" etc. The guy about 5'45 in represents an alternative idea, and it's what I saw - people want to do a good job.
This was John Egan's belief and experience too. The workers wanted to do a good job. The union shop stewards on the other hand wanted to sabotage everything they could.People say "Red Robbo", "Unions", "Lazy Factory Floor Workers" etc. The guy about 5'45 in represents an alternative idea, and it's what I saw - people want to do a good job.
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