JD Classics, what have they been up to?
Discussion
But at the same time the average human is able to make decisions based on information that the AV is currently unable to collect.
It’s seings and roundabouts. On the more simple road networks such as motorways and larger roads, quieter roads, roads with less diverse traffic I think we all agree that AVs are likely to do a better job but there are very clearly situations, typically urban, where the AI system just doesn’t collect enough information to make the same kind of judgement call that even the most dim witted human manages to make unwittingly.
Threat assessment is probably the key area here. A child suddenly vering towards the road. We can see that the child has suddenly changed direction to pick up a small object that is closer to the road. We can look into the eyes of the driver at the junction and despite them edging forward, know that they have seen us. Or being able to see that another driver is on their phone and not paying attention. Knowing that while a pedestrian looks like they are about to step out, knowing that they aren’t. Knowing that the only way to stop a pedestrian from stepping out is to drive at them.
I can see that AVs will improve a lot of areas of driving but having lived in London all my life, I see that they won’t work in certain environments and that the minor delays caused by stopping unnecessarily will cause total gridlock.
Environments such as central London rely on fear, mutually assured destruction and other key human attributes in order for traffic to flow. Laws and machines don’t keep the masses of road and pavement users all flowing, fear does. If that fear is removed then it all ceases to work.
It’s seings and roundabouts. On the more simple road networks such as motorways and larger roads, quieter roads, roads with less diverse traffic I think we all agree that AVs are likely to do a better job but there are very clearly situations, typically urban, where the AI system just doesn’t collect enough information to make the same kind of judgement call that even the most dim witted human manages to make unwittingly.
Threat assessment is probably the key area here. A child suddenly vering towards the road. We can see that the child has suddenly changed direction to pick up a small object that is closer to the road. We can look into the eyes of the driver at the junction and despite them edging forward, know that they have seen us. Or being able to see that another driver is on their phone and not paying attention. Knowing that while a pedestrian looks like they are about to step out, knowing that they aren’t. Knowing that the only way to stop a pedestrian from stepping out is to drive at them.
I can see that AVs will improve a lot of areas of driving but having lived in London all my life, I see that they won’t work in certain environments and that the minor delays caused by stopping unnecessarily will cause total gridlock.
Environments such as central London rely on fear, mutually assured destruction and other key human attributes in order for traffic to flow. Laws and machines don’t keep the masses of road and pavement users all flowing, fear does. If that fear is removed then it all ceases to work.
Elderly said:
ettore said:
As you all agree this interesting AV chat is in the wrong place, could you please go off and do it in the right place. This is an interesting thread otherwise and you're having your own conversation in the middle of it x
/\ THIS !!!!Elderly said:
ettore said:
As you all agree this interesting AV chat is in the wrong place, could you please go off and do it in the right place. This is an interesting thread otherwise and you're having your own conversation in the middle of it x
/\ THIS !!!!I think trying to force control over social conversations is best left to Momentum champagne receptions and is not appropriate for civilised company.
A little bit of thread deviation is a sign of normality and can throw up some very interesting points while being a sign of open mindedness. Trying to dictate terms of a conversation and set/ enforce rules is not.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Thursday 20th September 10:24
DonkeyApple said:
I disagree. That’s social segregation. If you are forced to have certain conversations in certain places you only ever get certain responses. Conversations ebb and flow and change tack all the time. Trying to control and restrict an open conversation is not constructive but unhealthy. The subject of AVs cropping up in an unlikely thread is genuinely interesting as you will get input and thoughts from different people than if you had to only discuss a subject inside a specific room dedicated to that subject.
I think trying to force control over social conversations is best left to Momentum champagne receptions and is not appropriate for civilised company.
This is one of my favourite threads on Pistonheads for quite some time, I find the whole ordeal pretty fascinating. Maybe helped by the fact I've visited JD Classics before (for a breakfast meet, not as a customer!) which helps make it feel more real and scandalous.I think trying to force control over social conversations is best left to Momentum champagne receptions and is not appropriate for civilised company.
I've skipped over every single AV related post, I'm not here to read about that.
mackay45 said:
This is one of my favourite threads on Pistonheads for quite some time, I find the whole ordeal pretty fascinating. Maybe helped by the fact I've visited JD Classics before (for a breakfast meet, not as a customer!) which helps make it feel more real and scandalous.
I've skipped over every single AV related post, I'm not here to read about that.
It is a very interesting thread and I’m sure the vast majority of viewers of this sub forum have the similar intellect and control of their desires to skip elements that aren’t relevant or of interest to them. The AV bits are a weird twist but not an invitation for censorship or control freakery. I've skipped over every single AV related post, I'm not here to read about that.
DonkeyApple said:
Elderly said:
ettore said:
As you all agree this interesting AV chat is in the wrong place, could you please go off and do it in the right place. This is an interesting thread otherwise and you're having your own conversation in the middle of it x
/\ THIS !!!!I think trying to force control over social conversations is best left to Momentum champagne receptions and is not appropriate for civilised company.
A little bit of thread deviation is a sign of normality and can throw up some very interesting points while being a sign of open mindedness. Trying to dictate terms of a conversation and set/ enforce rules is not.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Thursday 20th September 10:24
ettore said:
Balls - it's completely irrelevant and has bugger all to do with social segregation (a momentum-esque term if ever there were). Thread drift can be fine - having an entirely separate conversation is tedious.
Tedious is people dictating social rules. Just let threads run naturally. Several people have asked questions regarding the JD situation and as of yet no one has replied with any thoughts or answers and in the meantime if a thread wanders it wanders. It’s not as if fuel supply or the apparent impending arrival of AVs don’t have the potential to very significantly impact our hobby. And while the subject of whether the classic car bubble will burst this year or next decade wasn’t specifically pertinent people didn’t try to to stifle the thread deviation like silly old, intolerant buffers. Isn’t AI about computers learning not to be so rigid and run by a fixed set of rules? A subject suddenly made pertinent by the desire that threads be subjected to such controls. DonkeyApple said:
ettore said:
Balls - it's completely irrelevant and has bugger all to do with social segregation (a momentum-esque term if ever there were). Thread drift can be fine - having an entirely separate conversation is tedious.
Tedious is people dictating social rules. Just let threads run naturally. Several people have asked questions regarding the JD situation and as of yet no one has replied with any thoughts or answers and in the meantime if a thread wanders it wanders. It’s not as if fuel supply or the apparent impending arrival of AVs don’t have the potential to very significantly impact our hobby. And while the subject of whether the classic car bubble will burst this year or next decade wasn’t specifically pertinent people didn’t try to to stifle the thread deviation like silly old, intolerant buffers. Isn’t AI about computers learning not to be so rigid and run by a fixed set of rules? A subject suddenly made pertinent by the desire that threads be subjected to such controls. DonkeyApple said:
ettore said:
Balls - it's completely irrelevant and has bugger all to do with social segregation (a momentum-esque term if ever there were). Thread drift can be fine - having an entirely separate conversation is tedious.
Tedious is people dictating social rules. Just let threads run naturally. Several people have asked questions regarding the JD situation and as of yet no one has replied with any thoughts or answers and in the meantime if a thread wanders it wanders. It’s not as if fuel supply or the apparent impending arrival of AVs don’t have the potential to very significantly impact our hobby. And while the subject of whether the classic car bubble will burst this year or next decade wasn’t specifically pertinent people didn’t try to to stifle the thread deviation like silly old, intolerant buffers. Isn’t AI about computers learning not to be so rigid and run by a fixed set of rules? A subject suddenly made pertinent by the desire that threads be subjected to such controls. 
GoodOlBoy said:
Now that JD are under new ownership how will that play out for the various creditors ?
More particularly how will it affect the claimant in the court case that seems to have started the whole chain of events ?
Good point. The press releases read as if the company has been bought and one would expect that meant liabilities as well. I will be impressed if they have not taken the opportunity to wiggle out of those liabilities.More particularly how will it affect the claimant in the court case that seems to have started the whole chain of events ?
singlecoil said:
GoodOlBoy said:
Now that JD are under new ownership how will that play out for the various creditors ?
More particularly how will it affect the claimant in the court case that seems to have started the whole chain of events ?
Good point. The press releases read as if the company has been bought and one would expect that meant liabilities as well. I will be impressed if they have not taken the opportunity to wiggle out of those liabilities.More particularly how will it affect the claimant in the court case that seems to have started the whole chain of events ?
OldCo then has 1 large cheque (from sale of assets and trade to NewCo) out of which to settle ALL of the claims against it - legal bills, financiers*, other suppliers, payroll, HMRC, etc...
It'll be rather interesting to see what the ratio of cash-to-liabilities is for the OldCo...
* Some sensible ones may well have asked for security, in which case they'd have either moved across to NewCo with the secured assets, or would have made arrangements to be settled first out of the proceeds as consideration for them permitting the sale of the assets.
Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff