JD Classics, what have they been up to?
Discussion
Reverting to the JD thread..... I'm a motor trader not an accountant / economist so forgive my ignorance.
Given facts rather than suppositions, what exactly have the 'new' owners bought from the receivers ? It is fact that the premises are owned by the Hood family not JD.
Certainly not goodwill after recent events.
The trading name of JD I would suggest is untradable now.
Any stock I suspect will be overpriced in today's market.
Tools, equipment & a loyal band of brilliant engineers appear to me to be the only assets. I cannot understand why anyone would wish to invest.
Can anyone enlighten me ?
Given facts rather than suppositions, what exactly have the 'new' owners bought from the receivers ? It is fact that the premises are owned by the Hood family not JD.
Certainly not goodwill after recent events.
The trading name of JD I would suggest is untradable now.
Any stock I suspect will be overpriced in today's market.
Tools, equipment & a loyal band of brilliant engineers appear to me to be the only assets. I cannot understand why anyone would wish to invest.
Can anyone enlighten me ?
havoc said:
singlecoil said:
GoodOlBoy said:
Now that JD are under new ownership how will that play out for the various creditors ?
More particularly how will it affect the claimant in the court case that seems to have started the whole chain of events ?
Good point. The press releases read as if the company has been bought and one would expect that meant liabilities as well. I will be impressed if they have not taken the opportunity to wiggle out of those liabilities.More particularly how will it affect the claimant in the court case that seems to have started the whole chain of events ?
OldCo then has 1 large cheque (from sale of assets and trade to NewCo) out of which to settle ALL of the claims against it - legal bills, financiers*, other suppliers, payroll, HMRC, etc...
It'll be rather interesting to see what the ratio of cash-to-liabilities is for the OldCo...
* Some sensible ones may well have asked for security, in which case they'd have either moved across to NewCo with the secured assets, or would have made arrangements to be settled first out of the proceeds as consideration for them permitting the sale of the assets.
Otherwise, why would you? A business goes down the toilet because of all the money it owes, so I'll pay the owners to take their liabilities away.
thegreenhell said:
Mmmm. I particularly like the about us page."Woodham Mortimer is also a major sponsor of some of the largest motoring events in the world, including the Mille Miglia, Goodwood Revival and Goodwood Members’ Meeting, providing unrivalled access for our customers."
Is that so.
Whilst I hope it all works out for the workforce who are nodoubt thoroughly decent and caught up in all of this, the rebranding.. um.. NewCo looks a little questionable.
It all looks like manouvereing so those who should be accountable don't get 'caught'.
No ideas for a name said:
Mmmm. I particularly like the about us page.
"Woodham Mortimer is also a major sponsor of some of the largest motoring events in the world, including the Mille Miglia, Goodwood Revival and Goodwood Members’ Meeting, providing unrivalled access for our customers."
Is that so.
Whilst I hope it all works out for the workforce who are nodoubt thoroughly decent and caught up in all of this, the rebranding.. um.. NewCo looks a little questionable.
Search "JD""Woodham Mortimer is also a major sponsor of some of the largest motoring events in the world, including the Mille Miglia, Goodwood Revival and Goodwood Members’ Meeting, providing unrivalled access for our customers."
Is that so.
Whilst I hope it all works out for the workforce who are nodoubt thoroughly decent and caught up in all of this, the rebranding.. um.. NewCo looks a little questionable.
Replace "
Doofus said:
It would be very unusual for somebody to purchase the liabilities of a business unless they are quantified, and guaranteed. This will certainly be a debt-free purchase. That is, buying the business without any of its encumbent debts.
Exactly. They'll have bought the "business", but not the company.Tuke at al. will have to pursue Hood and other directors personally. Obviously it depends on the amount paid by W-M for the assets, but there could be enough to pay off banks plus existing creditors in full, with whatever's left divided up by the shareholders. which presumably means Charme and Hood.
Somewhat depressing to think that Hood could be in line for a cash lump sum thanks to all this
Doofus said:
havoc said:
If I was buying the business, I'd create a new company, buy the trade and assets from the liquidators, and leave all the liabilities behind in the OldCo.
OldCo then has 1 large cheque (from sale of assets and trade to NewCo) out of which to settle ALL of the claims against it - legal bills, financiers*, other suppliers, payroll, HMRC, etc...
It'll be rather interesting to see what the ratio of cash-to-liabilities is for the OldCo...
* Some sensible ones may well have asked for security, in which case they'd have either moved across to NewCo with the secured assets, or would have made arrangements to be settled first out of the proceeds as consideration for them permitting the sale of the assets.
It would be very unusual for somebody to purchase the liabilities of a business unless they are quantified, and guaranteed. This will certainly be a debt-free purchase. That is, buying the business without any of its encumbent debts.OldCo then has 1 large cheque (from sale of assets and trade to NewCo) out of which to settle ALL of the claims against it - legal bills, financiers*, other suppliers, payroll, HMRC, etc...
It'll be rather interesting to see what the ratio of cash-to-liabilities is for the OldCo...
* Some sensible ones may well have asked for security, in which case they'd have either moved across to NewCo with the secured assets, or would have made arrangements to be settled first out of the proceeds as consideration for them permitting the sale of the assets.
Otherwise, why would you? A business goes down the toilet because of all the money it owes, so I'll pay the owners to take their liabilities away.
I was referring only to specific debt secured against specific assets that the buyers wanted (i.e. the cars). If that is the case, most likely part of the Sale & Purchase Agreement will involve the settlement of the specific (quantified) debt by one of the parties as a route to satisfying any charge against an asset. The debt-holder wins because they get their money, the buyer wins because they get the asset (which otherwise the debt-holder could veto).
silentbrown said:
Doofus said:
It would be very unusual for somebody to purchase the liabilities of a business unless they are quantified, and guaranteed. This will certainly be a debt-free purchase. That is, buying the business without any of its encumbent debts.
Exactly. They'll have bought the "business", but not the company.Tuke at al. will have to pursue Hood and other directors personally. Obviously it depends on the amount paid by W-M for the assets, but there could be enough to pay off banks plus existing creditors in full, with whatever's left divided up by the shareholders. which presumably means Charme and Hood.
Somewhat depressing to think that Hood could be in line for a cash lump sum thanks to all this
W-M secures the restoration and racing business (and its employees), cleansing them in time of Mr Hood. I can't imagine that Hood has any call on the new company
No ideas for a name said:
Mmmm. I particularly like the about us page.
"Woodham Mortimer is also a major sponsor of some of the largest motoring events in the world, including the Mille Miglia, Goodwood Revival and Goodwood Members’ Meeting, providing unrivalled access for our customers."
.
I'm very impressed that they were sponsoring events and winning concours awards before they were even incorporated at Companies House......"Woodham Mortimer is also a major sponsor of some of the largest motoring events in the world, including the Mille Miglia, Goodwood Revival and Goodwood Members’ Meeting, providing unrivalled access for our customers."
.
Yup. It wouldn’t be likely that any of the liabilities had been purchased. You’d think that they would have just bought the assets and then the preferential lenders would take any cash and the company and its remaining liabilities wound up?
I guess those lenders would then seek to go after the assets of Hood for the shortfall?
On the surface it would seem that Tusk’s claim against the company has no value now as its hard to imagine any monies remaining that far down the queue and that he may find the same issue with regards to Hood as he is going to be towards the end of that queue?
I guess those lenders would then seek to go after the assets of Hood for the shortfall?
On the surface it would seem that Tusk’s claim against the company has no value now as its hard to imagine any monies remaining that far down the queue and that he may find the same issue with regards to Hood as he is going to be towards the end of that queue?
DonkeyApple said:
Yup. It wouldn’t be likely that any of the liabilities had been purchased. You’d think that they would have just bought the assets and then the preferential lenders would take any cash and the company and its remaining liabilities wound up?
There's a difference between preferential lenders (typically banks holding the senior debt) and secured debt (i.e. tied against an asset or class of assets).Preferential lenders (no longer HMRC) get first dibs on any distribution from an administration / liquidation
Secured lenders get to call in their debt against the asset(s) themselves, and can veto any sale of those assets to ensure they get paid.
No, the buyers won't want to purchase the liabilities...but they may well have had to account for / deal with any secured lenders (if they existed - quite likely IMHO) in their bid to secure all the assets of the business.
" The administrator’s primary goal is to leverage the company’s assets and business to repay creditors as quickly and as fully as possible without preference".
On that basis I would imagine that the sale has raised more than enough to pay off all creditors. I'm not sure how that affects Tuke as he has yet to have his day in court and hence the monies owed to him haven't been specifically defined or agreed.
Isn't it possible that his legal team have obtained an out of court settlement as part of the sale negotiations ?
As for Hood, I think his personal fortune will suffice to pay off any outstanding creditors if it goes down that route.
On that basis I would imagine that the sale has raised more than enough to pay off all creditors. I'm not sure how that affects Tuke as he has yet to have his day in court and hence the monies owed to him haven't been specifically defined or agreed.
Isn't it possible that his legal team have obtained an out of court settlement as part of the sale negotiations ?
As for Hood, I think his personal fortune will suffice to pay off any outstanding creditors if it goes down that route.
GoodOlBoy said:
" The administrator’s primary goal is to leverage the company’s assets and business to repay creditors as quickly and as fully as possible without preference".
On that basis I would imagine that the sale has raised more than enough to pay off all creditors.
I'm not sure there are any grounds to assume that. The Administrator's job is to get the best value for creditors. That, invariably, ends up being less than they are owed.On that basis I would imagine that the sale has raised more than enough to pay off all creditors.
Doofus said:
GoodOlBoy said:
" The administrator’s primary goal is to leverage the company’s assets and business to repay creditors as quickly and as fully as possible without preference".
On that basis I would imagine that the sale has raised more than enough to pay off all creditors.
I'm not sure there are any grounds to assume that. The Administrator's job is to get the best value for creditors. That, invariably, ends up being less than they are owed.On that basis I would imagine that the sale has raised more than enough to pay off all creditors.
DonkeyApple said:
….Tusk’s claim?.....
So will pre 1947 cars containing ivory knobs on the dashboard require a CITES re-export permit if exported, and even within this country will a pre 1989 car require an Article 10 certificate to allow it to be sold at all?How will this impact on the value of such cars?
Or do you think that this question should have a thread of it's own so as not to distract from the OP's subject
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We have had a few companies go into administration and as unsecured creditors we have never seen a penny!
Once the receiver gets his money (and they charge like wounded Rhino’s) then the bank and other secured creditors including employees get there money as a percentage of what’s left, there’s never been anything left for unsecured creditors in my experience.
Once the receiver gets his money (and they charge like wounded Rhino’s) then the bank and other secured creditors including employees get there money as a percentage of what’s left, there’s never been anything left for unsecured creditors in my experience.
johnnyreggae said:
No ideas for a name said:
Mmmm. I particularly like the about us page.
"Woodham Mortimer is also a major sponsor of some of the largest motoring events in the world, including the Mille Miglia, Goodwood Revival and Goodwood Members’ Meeting, providing unrivalled access for our customers."
.
I'm very impressed that they were sponsoring events and winning concours awards before they were even incorporated at Companies House......"Woodham Mortimer is also a major sponsor of some of the largest motoring events in the world, including the Mille Miglia, Goodwood Revival and Goodwood Members’ Meeting, providing unrivalled access for our customers."
.
GoodOlBoy said:
I'm asking out of ignorance.
Surely if the company is sold, for more than the total owed to its creditors, there's no reason that they shouldn't be paid out.
As far as I know they were in administration, they didn't go bankrupt.
Well, the first people to get paid is the adminstrators themselves. If, having settled their extortionate bill for doing next to fSurely if the company is sold, for more than the total owed to its creditors, there's no reason that they shouldn't be paid out.
As far as I know they were in administration, they didn't go bankrupt.
k all, there is enough left to cover the other debts then, yes, they will all get paid. But do we know that's what happened in this case?Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff