JD Classics, what have they been up to?
Discussion
iSore said:
RichB said:
I'd be there too but with something like a Riley One-Point-Five for the St Mary's Trophy ('50s version)
It would have to be ZA Magnette for me. 
Well that too, the Riley was my first ever car, a ZA Magnette was my second! Incidentally, someone has just bought "Bumble" and it's a sign of old age when I can say I remember that car back in period!
I imagine this is just a re-bodiment of horse racing. I worked once with a guy who owned race-horses. OK if you've done your research and with a fair dose of lady luck you might win some races but for the most part you're shelling out a lot for the privilege of simply 'being there' as part of an exclusive club, wearing green wellies, rubbing shoulders with rich-and-famous kindred spirits etc.
On reflection, it's a poor analogy. How many race horse owners have the ability, or inclination, to mount their steed?
On reflection, it's a poor analogy. How many race horse owners have the ability, or inclination, to mount their steed?
RichB said:
Well that too, the Riley was my first ever car, a ZA Magnette was my second! Incidentally, someone has just bought "Bumble" and it's a sign of old age when I can say I remember that car back in period!
millen said:
I imagine this is just a re-bodiment of horse racing. I worked once with a guy who owned race-horses. OK if you've done your research and with a fair dose of lady luck you might win some races but for the most part you're shelling out a lot for the privilege of simply 'being there' as part of an exclusive club, wearing green wellies, rubbing shoulders with rich-and-famous kindred spirits etc.
On reflection, it's a poor analogy. How many race horse owners have the ability, or inclination, to mount their steed?
Riding boots maybe, green wellies definitely not.On reflection, it's a poor analogy. How many race horse owners have the ability, or inclination, to mount their steed?
millen said:
I imagine this is just a re-bodiment of horse racing. I worked once with a guy who owned race-horses. OK if you've done your research and with a fair dose of lady luck you might win some races but for the most part you're shelling out a lot for the privilege of simply 'being there' as part of an exclusive club, wearing green wellies, rubbing shoulders with rich-and-famous kindred spirits etc.
On reflection, it's a poor analogy. How many race horse owners have the ability, or inclination, to mount their steed?
Not such poor analogy - guys like Chris Harris race E Types etc that they don't own. I don't think Anthony Bamford races himself now. Could be wrong.On reflection, it's a poor analogy. How many race horse owners have the ability, or inclination, to mount their steed?
I think the model of racing to increase value only has a chance of working at the very top end of the market - the rise in value would have to be significant to cover the cost and time put in to participating. It is true that some people spend a lot on historic racing but that doesn’t change the fact that most of the participants are in it for fun (and it is great fun) and are very far indeed from making any money out of it.....
Goodwood and the like are the pinnacle of historic racing but only a small part of the picture.
Goodwood and the like are the pinnacle of historic racing but only a small part of the picture.
RichB said:
Incidentally, someone has just bought "Bumble" and it's a sign of old age when I can say I remember that car back in period!
It was the late Russell Bulgin who observed he could tell he was getting old when asked to review a car as a classic that he had previously reviewed when new 
thegreenhell said:
I think there are also some questionable cars, and some outright fakes, racing in historics. Giving them some racing provenance at the big events somehow legitimises them and will certainly add value.
I'm afraid you won't change things though. Would you race the 1956 Le Mans-winning D-type that sold for over £20 million or commission a copy to race for £600,000? Everyone is now at it, and at least we still get to see classics on the track. Lord March has been quietly stuffing the grids for years at the Revival, not because he wants to but because he can't get the owners of the real ones to risk them being damaged. My replica was at the Revival in 2009 and the Festival in 2011, and there were two Lancia saddle tank F1 replicas (I forget their real description) as well as a shark nose Ferrari. Come down the scale and it is different, but I have never seen an A35 topping 100mph on the road for one, and now the A40s are at it too. Nothing is as it was in the day, but it does make for exciting racing.lowdrag said:
I'm afraid you won't change things though. Would you race the 1956 Le Mans-winning D-type that sold for over £20 million or commission a copy to race for £600,000? Everyone is now at it, and at least we still get to see classics on the track. Lord March has been quietly stuffing the grids for years at the Revival, not because he wants to but because he can't get the owners of the real ones to risk them being damaged. My replica was at the Revival in 2009 and the Festival in 2011, and there were two Lancia saddle tank F1 replicas (I forget their real description) as well as a shark nose Ferrari. Come down the scale and it is different, but I have never seen an A35 topping 100mph on the road for one, and now the A40s are at it too. Nothing is as it was in the day, but it does make for exciting racing.
And then has the nerve to say that the 'new' Lightweight E-types won't be accepted because replicas aren't allowed at Goodwood!lowdrag said:
thegreenhell said:
I think there are also some questionable cars, and some outright fakes, racing in historics. Giving them some racing provenance at the big events somehow legitimises them and will certainly add value.
, and there were two Lancia saddle tank F1 replicas (I forget their real description) skwdenyer said:
RichB said:
Incidentally, someone has just bought "Bumble" and it's a sign of old age when I can say I remember that car back in period!
It was the late Russell Bulgin who observed he could tell he was getting old when asked to review a car as a classic that he had previously reviewed when new 
lowdrag said:
Come down the scale and it is different, but I have never seen an A35 topping 100mph on the road for one, and now the A40s are at it too. Nothing is as it was in the day, but it does make for exciting racing.
They're allegedly FIA Appendix K according to the regs - which (IIRC) means pretty much standard but allows homologated parts. However this implies they're nothing of the kind... http://www.spridget.org/austin_a35_at_goodwood.htmI used to race a Triumph in CSCC (now CTCRC) pre '65, when they were debating following the Appendix K regs. The only part homolgated for the car was a massively heavy sump guard....
CanAm said:
And then has the nerve to say that the 'new' Lightweight E-types won't be accepted because replicas aren't allowed at Goodwood!
He went back on that several years ago. You'll see the new D-types racing too, and what about the 1990 Lister Knobbly "continuations"? They've been racing since they were made. The Pearsons have one. Nothing in racing nowadays bears any resenblance to the cars they were in the day. When the Revival hosted the 50th anniversay of the Mini all entrants were called to scrutineering two hours before the start - with the head off . That caused a kerfuffle I can tell you, because the limit was 1300 cc, and a number were out to 1340cc.lowdrag said:
He went back on that several years ago. You'll see the new D-types racing too, and what about the 1990 Lister Knobbly "continuations"? They've been racing since they were made. The Pearsons have one. Nothing in racing nowadays bears any resenblance to the cars they were in the day. When the Revival hosted the 50th anniversay of the Mini all entrants were called to scrutineering two hours before the start - with the head off . That caused a kerfuffle I can tell you, because the limit was 1300 cc, and a number were out to 1340cc.
Minis were always 'bent' though. Ralph Broad was known to pull a few stunts like cutting and welding subframes to widen the track without touching the suspension arms. Seeing an A40 keep up with a 3.4 Mark 1 Jaguar seems a bit wrong though. silentbrown said:
lowdrag said:
Come down the scale and it is different, but I have never seen an A35 topping 100mph on the road for one, and now the A40s are at it too. Nothing is as it was in the day, but it does make for exciting racing.
They're allegedly FIA Appendix K according to the regs - which (IIRC) means pretty much standard but allows homologated parts. However this implies they're nothing of the kind... http://www.spridget.org/austin_a35_at_goodwood.htmI used to race a Triumph in CSCC (now CTCRC) pre '65, when they were debating following the Appendix K regs. The only part homolgated for the car was a massively heavy sump guard....
Appendix K and the HTTP only suggest the car is along the lines of the original homologated car with period modifications.
Goodwood would have 1/2 the field, if not more, if the replicas were not there.
The scrutineering is a separate issue, I'd say the majority of cars would fail a decent scrutineers eye. Tales of cars having "lost" HTP papers to be redone - when its a new car. Engines suddenly appear in front of a scrutineer whist visiting a workshop, supposedly with a genuine long lost engine number.... E Types remanufactured with a higher grade steel and double sill panels....
lowdrag said:
Nothing in racing nowadays bears any resenblance to the cars they were in the day.
Agree for this level of racing - not a level playing field.But then, I'm from the camp that thinks all F1 cars should be identical (so we can assess the driver. not the tech - the latter being based on money)
lowdrag said:
Nothing in racing nowadays bears any resenblance to ... they were in the day.
Including the tracks, Goodwood boasts having the same layout as it did of yore but the surface isn't. Hence I was able to lap an unmolested XK150 at pretty much the same time as Mike Hawthorn was lapping a 3.4 Mk1 in period. Which is just plain silly There are corners where I can lose 10s where he'd have thought a bad lap was when he'd lost a 10th in a corner. This particular topic has been really quite fascinating, so much so it's caused me to post for the first time despite being a long time fan of Pistonheads.
I think what's astonished me is the dramatic and steep decline of a company that had been, it would seem, very successful for a very long time. I appreciate they're not the first and wont be the last company to go from hero to zero but it's pretty amazing considering what a short space of time it happened in following the sale to Charme.
But then again I've seen some of the cars they've sold over the last year and the slashed prices they've sold for and I guess that explains some of it, not specifically because of the money lost in those transactions but the fact they're all a bit lost it would seem! A contact of mine tried to buy a Jaguar XK120 for £140k and was turned down and it transpired the same car went at auction for £95k! Obviously he was furious he had missed out on the auction but that's quite a balls up on their part! There was also a similar case with an E Type and an ATL Alfa Romeo. Why are these cars suddenly all going to auction?? Surely if you're a dealer...you deal! Would love to know if anyone else has seen such transactions taking place?
I think what's astonished me is the dramatic and steep decline of a company that had been, it would seem, very successful for a very long time. I appreciate they're not the first and wont be the last company to go from hero to zero but it's pretty amazing considering what a short space of time it happened in following the sale to Charme.
But then again I've seen some of the cars they've sold over the last year and the slashed prices they've sold for and I guess that explains some of it, not specifically because of the money lost in those transactions but the fact they're all a bit lost it would seem! A contact of mine tried to buy a Jaguar XK120 for £140k and was turned down and it transpired the same car went at auction for £95k! Obviously he was furious he had missed out on the auction but that's quite a balls up on their part! There was also a similar case with an E Type and an ATL Alfa Romeo. Why are these cars suddenly all going to auction?? Surely if you're a dealer...you deal! Would love to know if anyone else has seen such transactions taking place?
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