JD Classics, what have they been up to?

[aeropilot]

TooMany2cvs said:

aeropilot said:

Elderly said:

I was introduced by a friend to a neighbour of his who had recently bought a very shiny
but very easily obtainable Jaguar.

The new owner proudly volunteered the (absurdly high ) price he had paid for it,
and equally proudly told me which high end dealer he bought it from ..... you can guess who .

Reminds me of all the people that bought very expensive RS Escorts from Mike Young's Garage in Ilford back in the mid/late 1980's...........who then turned up at owners club meetings to find that they had paid waaaaaaaay over market price, for what was usually a below par car.

If somebody is naive and does zero basic research into values pre-purchase, and just assumes that's the right price because that's what is being asked, then does the fault lie with the buyer or the seller?

Not trying to say it is or isn't. Over the years, there have been numerous different marque specialists that have done a good job at establishing themselves as the go-to sales or restoration facility, but have perhaps been anything but, other than being very good at marketing themselves into that position.
Its the nature of the trade, and yes, there will always be those that 'believe' the glossy hype and marketing/sales pitch - its the way of the world.
Its not the first time, and it won't be the last time either.
This though is slightly different of course, in the fake buyer scam that appears to have occurred which whether a buyer/seller is gullible or not is not really relevant.

[PistonBroker]

Norfolkandchance said:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/anything-goes/i...

I remember reading that article. It didn't strike me at the time, but now you read it and, beneath the veneer of Dentist, essentially it's a tale of a driveway trader come good. Looks like he never left it behind.

What's more concerning is that surely all the other names mentioned in the article must have been involved? The VCs, the former Lotus MD etc. etc. Surely he couldn't operate like this alone with all of those people involved in the business?

Is Steve Cropley a good judge of character?! :-p

[EXKAY120]

Its people/dealers like this that have pushed the "values" of our cars up to ridiculously high "values" which in my opinion are not worth it, making many of the real passionate enthusiasts not be able to afford these fantastic cars anymore.

I and a lot of us on here were lucky having bought our cars in the 80's and 90's when prices were more realistic, but the likes of my son now couldn't afford such absurd prices to buy a car which he'd love to own, an E Type or XK for example ! he's got to wait for his poor old dad to peg it and hopefully get them left to him in his will !

Joking aside though, these dealers that are asking a quarter of a mill for a bloody E Type !! whats all that about ! yes i love my series one open and fixed cars, but no way are they worth these crazy prices.
I'm sure i'll get a slap over the wrist from some of you on here for what i've just written, but its just the way i feel.

And please dont start me on "matching numbers" most of these cars are made up of brand new parts and panels !! oh but the numbers match !! BIG DEAL...... and then a lot of them get a cover put over them and cant go out when there's a cloud in the sky ... mental !!

Rant over :-)

[a8hex]

aeropilot said:

Reminds me of all the people that bought very expensive RS Escorts from Mike Young's Garage in Ilford back in the mid/late 1980's...........who then turned up at owners club meetings to find that they had paid waaaaaaaay over market price, for what was usually a below par car.

I believe that JD have managed to push the overall market value of some cars quite considerably. A few years ago a friend sold a 140DHC, it seemed to then move between dealers for a while and the asking price went up and up. I asked a dealer about one of these and he said that JD were selling them for almost twice what my friend had sold his for and that this had just dragged the whole market up. Any halfway decent RHD 140 drop head is now going to set up back well over 100K if not 140. This has become the new norm.

[v8250]

Norfolkandchance said:

Edit: he is definitely worth a lot! https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/anything-goes/i...

Note, it's not Hood who's allegedly worth £100m, it's the business that's allegedly worth £100m. One must always remember a business, like any other asset/combined assets is only worth what someone's prepared to pay for it. And one wonders what's the true asset value of JD Classics? How many of the cars available for sale at any one moment are owned by the business...or, do they operate the classic VC asset model whereby the parent company owns all/most of the assets and the front end business is simply a brand name servicing the assets? In this case car sales and some historic race support. This type of structure was until last year as per Thames Water and the 'parent' company, Kemble Water Holdings and Macquarie. This is who owns the majority holding of JD Classics http://www.charmecapitalpartners.com/who-we-are

eta - and this, I fear, is the true face of the classic car market today

Edited by v8250 on Tuesday 24th April 20:19

[mph]

v8250 said:

Note, it's not Hood who's allegedly worth £100m, it's the business that's allegedly worth £100m.

The top 100 lists it as Derek Hood, not JD Classics.

Where did you read that it's the business value ?

[TooMany2cvs]

mph said:

v8250 said:

Note, it's not Hood who's allegedly worth £100m, it's the business that's allegedly worth £100m.

The top 100 lists it as Derek Hood, not JD Classics.

Where did you read that it's the business value ?

The article mentions £100k turnover. At the time, Hood would have owned (many/all of?) JD's shares, and the VC outfit must've bought them from him...

[MitchT]

Doofus said:

TBF, if I had £60m in the bank, I wouldn't 'invest' in anything. Why would I need to make more money? I'd already have more than I'd ever need, and investing in stuff just means you spend a proportion of your time worrying about money. Under the circumstances, that would seem like a huge waste of time and effort.

Thing is, the kind of person who has £60m is probably the kind of serial entrepreneur that always has to be doing another deal. It's not really about the money. It's a compulsion. As it happens I was at a meeting with some VCs today. During a bit of casual chat before the meeting started head honcho was telling me that he'd "retired" several times but got bored each time and jumped back into the fray.

[lowdrag]

TooMany2cvs said:

The article mentions £100k turnover. At the time, Hood would have owned (many/all of?) JD's shares, and the VC outfit must've bought them from him...

Never confound turnover with profit. "Turnover" is selling ten cars at £10 million each. It is what sticks after overheads and salaries that is profit. However in Mr Hood's case they could well be the same come to think of it.

[TooMany2cvs]

lowdrag said:

Never confound turnover with profit.

Oh, absolutely... Just saying that's where the £100m figure's probably originating, with a big chunk of Chinese Whispers and half-arsedness around it.

A quick look on CoHo shows that the 2015 full accounts for the holding company show t/o of a snidge over that £100m figure, GP of £24m, bottom line profit of £14m, total assets less current liabilities of just under £60m, and shareholders funds of just under £35m. Derek's remuneration is shown as £95k with a £285k dividend paid... and an £11.4m creditor shown as the director's loan account.

[Burwood]

aeropilot said:

TooMany2cvs said:

aeropilot said:

Elderly said:

I was introduced by a friend to a neighbour of his who had recently bought a very shiny
but very easily obtainable Jaguar.

The new owner proudly volunteered the (absurdly high ) price he had paid for it,
and equally proudly told me which high end dealer he bought it from ..... you can guess who .

Reminds me of all the people that bought very expensive RS Escorts from Mike Young's Garage in Ilford back in the mid/late 1980's...........who then turned up at owners club meetings to find that they had paid waaaaaaaay over market price, for what was usually a below par car.

If somebody is naive and does zero basic research into values pre-purchase, and just assumes that's the right price because that's what is being asked, then does the fault lie with the buyer or the seller?

Not trying to say it is or isn't. Over the years, there have been numerous different marque specialists that have done a good job at establishing themselves as the go-to sales or restoration facility, but have perhaps been anything but, other than being very good at marketing themselves into that position.
Its the nature of the trade, and yes, there will always be those that 'believe' the glossy hype and marketing/sales pitch - its the way of the world.
Its not the first time, and it won't be the last time either.
This though is slightly different of course, in the fake buyer scam that appears to have occurred which whether a buyer/seller is gullible or not is not really relevant.

This. Most here miss the point. They had an agency agreement. Someone allegedly breached that contract.

[Legacywr]

Is this no elidgable for criminal charges?

[ds666]

so if I read this correctly - the Judge has said there was an agency agreement (which Mr Hood disputed ) . Is the next step for Mr Hood to be sued for fraud or what ?

[Burwood]

ds666 said:

so if I read this correctly - the Judge has said there was an agency agreement (which Mr Hood disputed ) . Is the next step for Mr Hood to be sued for fraud or what ?

JD tried to get the case thrown out as having no merit. A pre trial review by a judge essentially determined there is evidence of an agency relationship and an observer may have thought one existed. Further that JDs Hood acted in a deliberately dishonest way.

It’s not a good thing to have said about someone you should trust with your x million purchase.

My layperson reading suggests the trial will now go ahead.

Edited by Burwood on Wednesday 25th April 16:01

[Burwood]

Doofus said:

If JD deliberately and intentionally defrauded the client, then they appear to have done a pretty poor job of covering thier tracks. Arrogance, ignorance or innocence?

Well, the Judge has already labelled Hood 'Deliberately dishonest'. The exact quote 'Judge nevertheless observed that Mr Hood had been guilty of deliberate and dishonest conduct in relation the the sale of an XKSS on Mr Tuke's behalf.

Innocent you say

[Livia1]

As an amateur reading the Judgment it looks like the Judge has gone out of his way in a claim that was just about agency, to highlight the various claims of fraud and give the green light to the three much more serious cases involving 18 cars to go ahead.

[Burwood]

Livia1 said:

As an amateur reading the Judgment it looks like the Judge has gone out of his way in a claim that was just about agency, to highlight the various claims of fraud and give the green light to the three much more serious cases involving 18 cars to go ahead.

It will certainly be an interesting case. And it's front page on Google (this thread)

[Livia1]

Yes, and if what the Judge says is true that's a criminal offence I think.

[Burwood]

Livia1 said:

Yes, and if what the Judge says is true that's a criminal offence I think.

I don't think Judges lie that often. Perhaps this case will get settled pretty smartly

[a8hex]

Burwood said:

It will certainly be an interesting case. And it's front page on Google (this thread)

That's not going to make their marketing department happy. Go to Google and type in "j d classic" and the third predictive option is "court case" and if you simply take j d classic, this thread is the second link, immediately after the advert link to their own website.