JD Classics, what have they been up to?
Discussion
EXKAY120 said:
I love the last line of Donkey apples comment, thats so true and well said, so much dishonesty within our hobby (classic cars)
I personally really do hope that the classic car market prices crash and hopefully then it will allow the enthusiasts that cant afford some of these absurd prices that are being asked to be able to afford to buy a car that they've always desired for.
I am lucky enough to own some of these cars, i bought many years ago when prices were not silly, but i really do think its crazy whats going on at the moment, some restored E Tyes at a quarter of a mill ! Astons at half a mill... Early Fords (sierra Cosworth) at 75-100k.. all crazy money, the average man in the street will never be able to afford.
And my pet hate.....NUMBERS MATCHING !!! the cars had a new body,new interior,new wheels, new paint, new this new that, ohhh but the engine numbers match !! what that all about ! in the old days if the engine went bang you put another one in, simple, no one cared a hoot if it was a different engine !
If you watch Top Gear episode from circa 2005, Clarkson had both the E Type and DB5. From memory he said the Aston was worth £180k. Which he said was a lot of money. At 2018, only 13 years later they're now £700-£1m.I personally really do hope that the classic car market prices crash and hopefully then it will allow the enthusiasts that cant afford some of these absurd prices that are being asked to be able to afford to buy a car that they've always desired for.
I am lucky enough to own some of these cars, i bought many years ago when prices were not silly, but i really do think its crazy whats going on at the moment, some restored E Tyes at a quarter of a mill ! Astons at half a mill... Early Fords (sierra Cosworth) at 75-100k.. all crazy money, the average man in the street will never be able to afford.
And my pet hate.....NUMBERS MATCHING !!! the cars had a new body,new interior,new wheels, new paint, new this new that, ohhh but the engine numbers match !! what that all about ! in the old days if the engine went bang you put another one in, simple, no one cared a hoot if it was a different engine !
Even look at the old Mercedes SLC 107. People were scrapping these as they weren't worth anything and thought of as ugly. Both time and rarity (bad ones scrapped) have bolstered prices to around £50k (not a lot compared to the DB5, no) but for a car that was being scrapped that's something.
Although they used to scrap Lamborghini Miuras as they weren't worth anything either...
This is a good chart for a visual highlight of just how much change their has been in 20 years in terms of the immense growth in the number of people able to fuel a market:
Go back another 20 years and the number was small enough for Victor Gauntlet to keep them all in a Roladex.
Clarkson is an interesting example also as 13 years ago he was probably ten times poorer than he is today.
Go back another 20 years and the number was small enough for Victor Gauntlet to keep them all in a Roladex.
Clarkson is an interesting example also as 13 years ago he was probably ten times poorer than he is today.
I have to say that I’m not convinced by the imminent collapse of the market and the death of our hobby. Overdue price correction absolutely and various marques and eras will ebb and flow (‘twas ever thus) but the scale and robustness of the hobby/industry is vastly different to how it was.
Cars, and car cultures, aren’t yet dead and I’m not sure they ever will be. They’ve had a more encompassing and profound effect on our individual lives and our liberties than any single technology before, or, so far, since. When we’re being moved around in autonomous pods (or walking) it will still be evolving. As others have pointed out a good horse, or indeed a good steam engine, still ain’t cheap.
Unless our cars are regulated out of existence (and that’s a big step away from any rational sense) we’ll still be muttering and chuntering about them for a good while yet.
Cars, and car cultures, aren’t yet dead and I’m not sure they ever will be. They’ve had a more encompassing and profound effect on our individual lives and our liberties than any single technology before, or, so far, since. When we’re being moved around in autonomous pods (or walking) it will still be evolving. As others have pointed out a good horse, or indeed a good steam engine, still ain’t cheap.
Unless our cars are regulated out of existence (and that’s a big step away from any rational sense) we’ll still be muttering and chuntering about them for a good while yet.
what deadline? Oh, I should have added a 
because I'm stirring. It's all a load of b
ks. No way will petrol cars be "run off the road" by 2035 or whatever. There's still horse draw carriages on the road, steam cars, Veteran (London to Brighton for those less interested in the definitions), Edwardian and Vintage cars and I am sure there will continue to be for another century. 
Anyway, I take a rather lad-back view of this thread because my car collection is not an investment and not part of my pension portfolio! No doubt I may have to sell one or two as I reach a certain age but that's more because I imagine juggling a crash box and a centre throttle at 80 may be tricky. When I die, what do I care? My 4 children can do with them what they want. My suggestion is that they use them for a year and enjoy them and then auction them for what they can get, if that's "not much" then so be it.
because I'm stirring. It's all a load of bks. No way will petrol cars be "run off the road" by 2035 or whatever. There's still horse draw carriages on the road, steam cars, Veteran (London to Brighton for those less interested in the definitions), Edwardian and Vintage cars and I am sure there will continue to be for another century. Anyway, I take a rather lad-back view of this thread because my car collection is not an investment and not part of my pension portfolio! No doubt I may have to sell one or two as I reach a certain age but that's more because I imagine juggling a crash box and a centre throttle at 80 may be tricky. When I die, what do I care? My 4 children can do with them what they want. My suggestion is that they use them for a year and enjoy them and then auction them for what they can get, if that's "not much" then so be it.
grumpy52 said:
The change to EVs is more likely to be 2075 or beyond .
We can't even decide how to generate our electricity at the moment let alone put an infrastructure in place to support it .
It is exceedingly unlikely. No one really wants them, few people can afford them, there’s a whole new level of infrastructure required and there is a massive political issue to pegging the entire UK automotive new sales to key elements controlled almost entirely by the Chinese State. Even if 2035 did happen we still have 30m cars on the road that would be replaced at a rate of 2m a year. In reality, I think we are perfectly safe on that front for decades. We can't even decide how to generate our electricity at the moment let alone put an infrastructure in place to support it .
However, the classic car movement still needs to run robust PR if it wants to head off loony attacks when the few realise that all cars are not suddenly going to be EVs next week as we are sitting targets for these chaps if we aren’t careful.
DonkeyApple said:
...there is a massive political issue to pegging the entire UK automotive new sales to key elements controlled almost entirely by the Chinese State.
Erm, you are aware of the amount of contracts that suddenly seem to be being granted to Chinese companies by our lovely Tory leadership, right? 15 years is plenty of time for that to evolve...First the Thatcher government mortgaged the country to buy votes through massive tax cuts (later spent by G Brown esq. as he was clueless rather than corrupt), and now the latest batch are taking a down-payment on sale...
I have far fewer doubts about our collective ability to shoot ourselves in both feet in exchange for short-term trinkets (electorate and politicians) than you do...all the while elsewhere in the world people actually plan long-term and suddenly seem rather more successful than us...
I also agree that this is going to take decades for the end of ICE's. In the tractor world their was a new tier of engine restrictions announced but the rest of the world said that it is possible draconian emmisions would harm food production as tractors are quite important in food production but ofcourse Europe signed up for them. Our tractor salesman said it is possible that manufacturers would stop selling in Europe rather than spend the billions to meet the new standards. Once sense starts to be seen and economies are hurt by regulations things may change.
SCoM in Liquidation, seems similar to JD - are others on thin ice?
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3504774
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3504774
Depends
...if they've upped their overheads significantly during the boom years, then potentially yes...although cutting costs is always an option!
...if they've bought too much stock just prior to a 'correction' and now can't shift it, then definitely yes.
As always, 'cash is king'...and if these traders are holding too much stock which they can't move on (or at least move on without taking a big bath), then that is their own silly fault...
...if they've upped their overheads significantly during the boom years, then potentially yes...although cutting costs is always an option!
...if they've bought too much stock just prior to a 'correction' and now can't shift it, then definitely yes.
As always, 'cash is king'...and if these traders are holding too much stock which they can't move on (or at least move on without taking a big bath), then that is their own silly fault...
classicaholic said:
SCoM in Liquidation, seems similar to JD - are others on thin ice?
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3504774
There were some interesting threads about them in the Porsche forum, but theyve all been pulled by the mods. Doing a google search will give you some clueshttps://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3504774
havoc said:
Depends
...if they've upped their overheads significantly during the boom years, then potentially yes...although cutting costs is always an option!
...if they've bought too much stock just prior to a 'correction' and now can't shift it, then definitely yes.
As always, 'cash is king'...and if these traders are holding too much stock which they can't move on (or at least move on without taking a big bath), then that is their own silly fault...
Especially if borrowings were ramped up to create the fancy sales venue. Getting out of leases and reducing staff is costly and a firm that has built itself up using other’s money isn’t going to have the depth of wealth to actually finance a reorientation of the business, hence the nasty death spiral. ...if they've upped their overheads significantly during the boom years, then potentially yes...although cutting costs is always an option!
...if they've bought too much stock just prior to a 'correction' and now can't shift it, then definitely yes.
As always, 'cash is king'...and if these traders are holding too much stock which they can't move on (or at least move on without taking a big bath), then that is their own silly fault...
Look for rapidly expanded enterprises with lots of borrowings in their accounts and you’re probably looking at a zombie.
A bit of an update on the original topic.
Got a press release today regarding their new facility in Chelmsford and notice that they have a new CEO, Peter Haynes, who is an excellent fellow - wish him luck. Apparently JMG still chairman of the board.
Peter Haynes - https://www.instagram.com/torqueman
Got a press release today regarding their new facility in Chelmsford and notice that they have a new CEO, Peter Haynes, who is an excellent fellow - wish him luck. Apparently JMG still chairman of the board.
Peter Haynes - https://www.instagram.com/torqueman
DonkeyApple said:
It’s a leveraged, unregulated and over pumped market full of illicit money, dishonesty and fakery so it’s at a much higher risk of a big and sudden collapse than most other asset classes.
This is very true. I also think that the other major vulnerability of the market is that it’s negative carry...i.e. if you have insurance, storage, maintenance, consumables and every twenty years some kind of restoration unless the car is 100% original already. All very easy to write a cheque for when the car is going up in value...less so when it isn’t is your car is an “investment”. The thing that will trigger this market really going lower is distressed sellers like a major dealer or collector going bust. All you really need is one really bad auction and the market can really move.
Although as far as the UK market is concerned after an appalling Q4 2019 my understanding is things have been pretty good so far this year.
CanAm said:
classicaholic said:
SCoM in Liquidation, seems similar to JD - are others on thin ice?
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3504774
There were some interesting threads about them in the Porsche forum, but they've all been pulled by the mods. Doing a google search will give you some clueshttps://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3504774
northo said:
Cheib said:
Although as far as the UK market is concerned after an appalling Q4 2019 my understanding is things have been pretty good so far this year.
As I understand it only the very best stuff is selling. Modern "collectables" with additional premiums under a lot of pressure.Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff