JD Classics, what have they been up to?
Discussion
Lawyers do indeed tend to be big drinkers, but things have straightened up quite a lot since I started in the 80s. I notice that, since then, both the law and financial services have become much more diverse, with more women and people fro ethnic minorities, and are less obviously sloshed than they used to be, but the insurance sector remains white, male, and in the pub.
Breadvan72 said:
Lawyers do indeed tend to be big drinkers, but things have straightened up quite a lot since I started in the 80s. I notice that, since then, both the law and financial services have become much more diverse, with more women and people fro ethnic minorities, and are less obviously sloshed than they used to be, but the insurance sector remains white, male, and in the pub.
Would have been 2003 I recall. I worked with a chap who was very bright, 30-32 age. Raving alcoholic. I never drank during lunch times. He would down 6 pints 3 days a week and you wouldn't even know. One afternoon another colleague decided he'd try and keep up with the lunch beers. He came back to the office in a right state. Blind drunk. So much so that he threw up in his waste bin and then passed out at his desk. He was 'this' close to getting fired. Pretty soon after the policy on drinking during work hours was tightened up. When I look back it was crazy.Burwood said:
Would have been 2003 I recall. I worked with a chap who was very bright, 30-32 age. Raving alcoholic. I never drank during lunch times. He would down 6 pints 3 days a week and you wouldn't even know. One afternoon another colleague decided he'd try and keep up with the lunch beers. He came back to the office in a right state. Blind drunk. So much so that he threw up in his waste bin and then passed out at his desk. He was 'this' close to getting fired. Pretty soon after the policy on drinking during work hours was tightened up. When I look back it was crazy.
Mid/late 90s our trading floor was laid out as a cricket pitch and Friday was always a One Dayer with a break for lunch. As a graduate your desks were in the slips!!!! So you tended to not drink too much at lunch. Not too much that you couldn’t duck while on a call to a client if needed but enough to take the edge off smack from a ball. It seemed to change when the Puritans arrived back from the New World and insisted that beer was evil and that everyone must shovel cocaine up their noses and sit at their desks until midnight playing solitaire until the boss left.
The legal profession has also changed dramatically. At least half the vomit in Clerkenwell is now from female lawyers and they’ve hired lots of non white, non public school people to do the billing hours while they’re in the pub instead of trying to do it simultaneously.
jsf said:
eccles said:
but why should they pay for your tea or lunch breaks, or Nobby's fag breaks.
They dont. The point I'm making is no one is ever 100% on the job, there's always something that is not directly related to the customers job and they shouldn't be charged for it.
eccles said:
So you're on the tools without break for 9 1/2 hours a day with no toilet/fag/sustenance breaks?
The point I'm making is no one is ever 100% on the job, there's always something that is not directly related to the customers job and they shouldn't be charged for it.
Im not sure why you are finding this so difficult to comprehend. The point I'm making is no one is ever 100% on the job, there's always something that is not directly related to the customers job and they shouldn't be charged for it.
Only time spent on the job gets booked to the job.
People in this industry work much longer hours than your typical office job.
What is a typical office job? People in some office based jobs work long hours, although I think that the culture of bragging about how many hours we all work for is a bit daft. There's hours and there's hours. I am currently working with a lawyer in Moscow who never seems to stop working. She send me emails pretty much 24 7. This isn't a good thing (for her, I mean).
Breadvan72 said:
What is a typical office job? People in some office based jobs work long hours, although I think that the culture of bragging about how many hours we all work for is a bit daft. There's hours and there's hours. I am currently working with a lawyer in Moscow who never seems to stop working. She send me emails pretty much 24 7. This isn't a good thing (for her, I mean).
Who is bragging?It's the nature of the job that you have to work long hours at times, 9.5 hours bookable is not unusual, between race meetings where turnaround time is very limited that would be an easy day. The job is extremely cyclical, so you can't staff the company enough to avoid these time pressures.
The case being referred to just looks like a customer who underestimated the hours required and there was a misunderstanding of the work required or agreed. The only part of that judgment i have a problem with is the blanket statement about booked hours, knowing the industry as well as i do, i know that's not a fair comment and doesn't represent the real world. Why that statement was made we can only speculate.
Breadvan72 said:
There was no judgment. The case was compromised, as mentioned on Wilmots' website.
Also, the case concerned modification or restoration work, not work for a race meeting.
Going forward, if the car is road registered, I would be more worried about working out who decided to alter chassis in length and width and therefore completely muck up the registration in DVLA eyes. Also, the case concerned modification or restoration work, not work for a race meeting.
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-...
Edited by Unsorted on Monday 27th April 23:23
In a rising market discretions are forgiven. When prices fall these "indiscretions" go legal. Having spent a decade immersed in the classic car world, mainly with restorers, feel the heat is going to be turned on the restoration, retro mod/bespoke car and classic car sales field.
Examples;
1) Using the word "investment" in an advert for a car of a type you, as a dealer, know sold for less within last three three years from your own pool of stock and SOR, and, including your experience as an "expert" within the overall classic car market.
2) Cars where the chassis or monocoque has been altered by a restorer to make a more "desirable model". Definite no no for DVLA. For example DB4/5 to Zagato or DB4 GT. The restorer will say he was doing what the client asked, but as a professional where does duty of care kick in? Know of a number of Octane type businesses that are creating illegal cars.
3) Bare metal resprays where the car is then sorted with filler (of epic quantity). Believe me, this is rife. Would love to know the weight of a typical restored car compared to original.
4) We all know auction houses do not market cars as cars, but rather as an entity described by vendor that could quite easily be an ornament. Will this scenario be tested in court when the auction house markets a car with known legal issues?
5) Cost of a restoration. Rape and pillage over last few years.
6) Ponzi schemes whether resto or classic car sales businesses.
Feel that even a minimal amount of pressure on prices is going to expose a can of worms. The owners of the cars could in my opinion then turn from geniuses that "bought" a car (to make money) to victims that were "sold" a car (and are out of "pocket").
Examples;
1) Using the word "investment" in an advert for a car of a type you, as a dealer, know sold for less within last three three years from your own pool of stock and SOR, and, including your experience as an "expert" within the overall classic car market.
2) Cars where the chassis or monocoque has been altered by a restorer to make a more "desirable model". Definite no no for DVLA. For example DB4/5 to Zagato or DB4 GT. The restorer will say he was doing what the client asked, but as a professional where does duty of care kick in? Know of a number of Octane type businesses that are creating illegal cars.
3) Bare metal resprays where the car is then sorted with filler (of epic quantity). Believe me, this is rife. Would love to know the weight of a typical restored car compared to original.
4) We all know auction houses do not market cars as cars, but rather as an entity described by vendor that could quite easily be an ornament. Will this scenario be tested in court when the auction house markets a car with known legal issues?
5) Cost of a restoration. Rape and pillage over last few years.
6) Ponzi schemes whether resto or classic car sales businesses.
Feel that even a minimal amount of pressure on prices is going to expose a can of worms. The owners of the cars could in my opinion then turn from geniuses that "bought" a car (to make money) to victims that were "sold" a car (and are out of "pocket").
Edited by Unsorted on Monday 27th April 23:30
Latest administrator's report published now. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0378819...
Another £1.1m of legal fees.
£8m comporation tax refund from HMRC
Another £1.1m of legal fees.
£8m comporation tax refund from HMRC
silentbrown said:
Latest administrator's report published now. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0378819...
Another £1.1m of legal fees.
£8m comporation tax refund from HMRC
Sobering reading, no doubt will not get better as a result of Covid Another £1.1m of legal fees.
£8m comporation tax refund from HMRC
To be fair, if the stock has already been acquired by someone else, then there's little more for the administrators to do, except run up a silly bill (as many of them seem to do nowadays...).
...and if a price was agreed for said stock pre-Covid, then the buyer may well be feeling a little glum right about now...
...and if a price was agreed for said stock pre-Covid, then the buyer may well be feeling a little glum right about now...
havoc said:
To be fair, if the stock has already been acquired by someone else, then there's little more for the administrators to do, except run up a silly bill (as many of them seem to do nowadays...).
...and if a price was agreed for said stock pre-Covid, then the buyer may well be feeling a little glum right about now...
If you bothered to read the report, you would see that the administrators are engaged in efforts to recover funds for creditors, so your glib and lazy generalisation is inaccurate, and the words "to be fair" are an odd choice. ...and if a price was agreed for said stock pre-Covid, then the buyer may well be feeling a little glum right about now...
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 29th April 06:18
Two additional points:
(1) The administrators' fees and disbursements have to be approved by the secured and preferential creditors.
(2) The administrators report that they are pursuing litigation (details not specified for commercial reasons) and have spent over £1 million with Quinn Emanuel, a specialist international litigation firm. That sort of billing suggests to me heavyweight claims, possibly involving asset disclosure and/or freezer orders, possibly in several jurisdictions.
(1) The administrators' fees and disbursements have to be approved by the secured and preferential creditors.
(2) The administrators report that they are pursuing litigation (details not specified for commercial reasons) and have spent over £1 million with Quinn Emanuel, a specialist international litigation firm. That sort of billing suggests to me heavyweight claims, possibly involving asset disclosure and/or freezer orders, possibly in several jurisdictions.
Breadvan72 said:
Two additional points:
(1) The administrators' fees and disbursements have to be approved by the secured and preferential creditors.
(2) The administrators report that they are pursuing litigation (details not specified for commercial reasons) and have spent over £1 million with Quinn Emanuel, a specialist international litigation firm. That sort of billing suggests to me heavyweight claims, possibly involving asset disclosure and/or freezer orders, possibly in several jurisdictions.
1) I suspect you're at least as well informed in this area as me, but we both know that in most cases that tends to be a rubber stamp as the creditors rely on what the administrators are telling them...(1) The administrators' fees and disbursements have to be approved by the secured and preferential creditors.
(2) The administrators report that they are pursuing litigation (details not specified for commercial reasons) and have spent over £1 million with Quinn Emanuel, a specialist international litigation firm. That sort of billing suggests to me heavyweight claims, possibly involving asset disclosure and/or freezer orders, possibly in several jurisdictions.
2) Quite possibly...but has anyone independent given a realistic % chance of success...or is it another case of the professional service firms hoovering up what's left while they can? I may be wrong here...this may be a genuine prospect of success, and may realise genuine (net of fees) value for the creditors. But I've seen and heard about plenty where it didn't happen...
Forgive me, but I've got 20+ years in practice and industry and I've seen what tends to happen. I was offered a role in a CR team before I left practice and turned it down because I have morals.
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