JD Classics, what have they been up to?
Discussion
I have plenty of experience in high end car sales and broking from back in the day, mainly historic race and rally stuff.
Many, many, many of the people involved are just as scummy as the under arches dealer doing cut and shuts, and often considerably more so.
The only time I'd ever put money into car retail would be if I controlled every single thing from the ground up.
Many, many, many of the people involved are just as scummy as the under arches dealer doing cut and shuts, and often considerably more so.
The only time I'd ever put money into car retail would be if I controlled every single thing from the ground up.
a8hex said:
It tends to be the interiors I'm not so keen on though, which is a problem for owners generally. When you get to the stage where the interior needs replacing, new leather in an old car always looks wrong to me.
There are ways around if you really want to go in that direction.I know someone that, much to the trimmers horror, had the new new hide for his car 'tumbled' in a concrete mixer with some stones and rocks to distress it enough that, while new and replaced, didn't look shockingly out of place with the rest of the largely original interior.
Apologies to any Jaguar, Aston Martin owners or other marque enthusiasts (and no disrespect intended) but vehicles that are now regarded as 'classic' when new would never had been sold (or bought) on the premise that they would eventually become high value 'investments'. They were ordinary (albeit considered as high quality back in the day) cars simply bought by many owners (just as cars now are) as fun, high performance vehicles - life expectancy of vehicle? 6, 8, 10 years? many cars irrespective of make would have been considered an old 'banger' if 10 years old or more. Who would have ever thought that prices would escalate the way they have? - will that always continue? There is a golden rule for any self starting business entrepreneur who has built-up a profitable, highly marketable business over a number of years - sell, get-out while the going is good - maximise the attention the media/trade/profession that your business has received, cash-in on a 'high' and walk away before others have had a chance to react, come in to your area of business, copy what you are doing, erode your market share and then become a threat to your businesses very existence. The gentleman in question should have stuck with an area of business he understood and was experienced with if he wanted to invest. Not all trades/businesses/products/concepts etc (including 'classic cars') will continue to escalate in value/interest etc. It doesn't take too much to 'pull the rugs from under the feet' of any established business or pastime in these turbulent times..........
Edited by roscobbc on Saturday 24th March 16:43
Edited by roscobbc on Saturday 24th March 16:45
aeropilot said:
a8hex said:
It tends to be the interiors I'm not so keen on though, which is a problem for owners generally. When you get to the stage where the interior needs replacing, new leather in an old car always looks wrong to me.
There are ways around if you really want to go in that direction.I know someone that, much to the trimmers horror, had the new new hide for his car 'tumbled' in a concrete mixer with some stones and rocks to distress it enough that, while new and replaced, didn't look shockingly out of place with the rest of the largely original interior.
I'd thought of trying to find someone who'd interior was salvageable but who wanted a new one and seeing if I could buy the old bits.
Otherwise it's a question of using the car as much as possible for a few years till it looks lived in. Which would be a real hardship
loose cannon said:
grumpy52 said:
Many in jag circles that are not particularly hands on with their cars think that JDC are the dogs danglies .
Others won't touch them with a sterile barge pole wearing gloves .
I have worked on a couple of cars that had been through their hands and sold at premium prices , I soon became unimpressed.
I shall watch with interest but fear that the winner will be the one with the best legal team .
Which restoration shop would you suggest ? Others won't touch them with a sterile barge pole wearing gloves .
I have worked on a couple of cars that had been through their hands and sold at premium prices , I soon became unimpressed.
I shall watch with interest but fear that the winner will be the one with the best legal team .
I’m planning on a series 3 build soon when I have the spare funds, do you not think there work is up to scratch and who do you think would do a better job for me
Those that are any good are swamped with work .
grumpy52 said:
The guy that I used to work for has closed his bookings until at least 2020 and has even postponed indefinitely a couple of his own projects .
Those that are any good are swamped with work .
Unknowingly you have recounted a (bubble?) scenario that happened in the last boom in classic cars that as we all know ended in tears. Have been told a similar story, by two leading UK body makers, that in the late eighties they both had years worth of work on the books, to the extent that no more work was being quoted for. Then one person cancelled. No problem, ring the next on the list. They cancelled and so it continued. Both said that virtually zero to none of the work booked in was ever done. One went into making things for aircraft and the other into furniture. Back in classic car scene now and well known, but you could tell they were still scarred by previous experience.Those that are any good are swamped with work .
Back on topic. http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2018/531.ht...
Above is a long read, but if you scroll down to point 40 it gets interesting from a PH perspective.
a8hex said:
Happy Jim said:
Ouch, so it’s already cost JD £45K +VAT to try and get the case thrown out...and failed.
A lot of expensive people stand around in a court expecting to get paid.https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0378819...
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/document-api-im...
https://hellopages.co.uk/directors/city-of-london/...
http://www.charmecapitalpartners.com/news/charme-c...
I sense all is not well with this structure. It's only going to take a small market shift, the current £9M claim and prospective buyers to start tightening the purse strings [or move to other markets] before Calme III the controlling owners of JDC move elsewhere. And liquidating high end classic cars in a downward market will be far from easy.
I was discussing that with someone only an hour ago. The feeling is that the matter will be settled out of court and perhaps Derek Hood will leave. Calme (isn't Tata himself a shareholder in that?) is opening two JD emporia in the USA I believe and rocking the boat is not a financial option. Another large dealer did comment that it would be in "everybody's interest" if the matter were dealt with privately.
Willhire89 said:
It's gone a bit far forward for a quiet settlement now - if that was in the minds of the JD investors then you would imagine it would have happened by now.
The court doc reads like a disaster for Hood and real momentum with Tuke
I agree, the transcript does seem to support Tuke's case.The court doc reads like a disaster for Hood and real momentum with Tuke
Even at this stage though, an out of court settlement will generate far less adverse publicity than a full-blown court case. Unless of course they imagine they can win.
_Sorted_ said:
grumpy52 said:
The guy that I used to work for has closed his bookings until at least 2020 and has even postponed indefinitely a couple of his own projects .
Those that are any good are swamped with work .
Unknowingly you have recounted a (bubble?) scenario that happened in the last boom in classic cars that as we all know ended in tears. Have been told a similar story, by two leading UK body makers, that in the late eighties they both had years worth of work on the books, to the extent that no more work was being quoted for. Then one person cancelled. No problem, ring the next on the list. They cancelled and so it continued. Both said that virtually zero to none of the work booked in was ever done. One went into making things for aircraft and the other into furniture. Back in classic car scene now and well known, but you could tell they were still scarred by previous experience.Those that are any good are swamped with work .
Back on topic. http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2018/531.ht...
Above is a long read, but if you scroll down to point 40 it gets interesting from a PH perspective.
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