JD Classics, what have they been up to?
Discussion
v8250 said:
I thought a quick company search would prove interesting. For your evening's entertainment
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0378819...
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/document-api-im...
https://hellopages.co.uk/directors/city-of-london/...
http://www.charmecapitalpartners.com/news/charme-c...
I sense all is not well with this structure. It's only going to take a small market shift, the current £9M claim and prospective buyers to start tightening the purse strings [or move to other markets] before Calme III the controlling owners of JDC move elsewhere. And liquidating high end classic cars in a downward market will be far from easy.
I had a quick read through the report and accounts. I claim no expertise but my views are -Quite profitable on paper though the valuation of stock is a significant item and will fluctuate with the market. As the market rose i expect the trend would be a requirement for more funding as a general principle though perhaps you can find that from profits. https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0378819...
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/document-api-im...
https://hellopages.co.uk/directors/city-of-london/...
http://www.charmecapitalpartners.com/news/charme-c...
I sense all is not well with this structure. It's only going to take a small market shift, the current £9M claim and prospective buyers to start tightening the purse strings [or move to other markets] before Calme III the controlling owners of JDC move elsewhere. And liquidating high end classic cars in a downward market will be far from easy.
If the case settles or the claimant gets judgement then it will be interesting to see whether the investors are reimbursed by the seller of the shares (i assume Mr Hood) as this claim pre dates the purchase.
The above is all just my own opinion and as mentioned above I have no knowledge or expertise
lowdrag said:
I was discussing that with someone only an hour ago. The feeling is that the matter will be settled out of court and perhaps Derek Hood will leave. Calme (isn't Tata himself a shareholder in that?) is opening two JD emporia in the USA I believe and rocking the boat is not a financial option. Another large dealer did comment that it would be in "everybody's interest" if the matter were dealt with privately.
How do you think it will be worked out between the current owners and Derek Hood ? Would they also be entitled to some sort of compensation ?I assume most of the alleged fraud took place before they bought into the company and one also assumes that they wouldn't have been aware of it, or of a pending court case.
There is another elephant possibly waiting in the corridor.....
If this was Hood's usual m o (and let's be honest the court papers show a very clear pattern and not a one off) you can be sure that Tuke was not the only person who was subject to this practise.
The publicity at this stage has the prospect for other purchasers/sellers to at least review their position
If this was Hood's usual m o (and let's be honest the court papers show a very clear pattern and not a one off) you can be sure that Tuke was not the only person who was subject to this practise.
The publicity at this stage has the prospect for other purchasers/sellers to at least review their position
Willhire89 said:
...The publicity at this stage has the prospect for other purchasers/sellers to at least review their position
Meetings between editorial and advertising at the higher end classic car magazines will be interesting. Question on table. Do we throw J D Classics under a bus now (on basis of nothing proved), or in future (if it goes the wrong way for JDC), or pretend it never happened in order that we continue to get a supply of feature cars and the most important bit being advertising revenue?mph said:
lowdrag said:
I was discussing that with someone only an hour ago. The feeling is that the matter will be settled out of court and perhaps Derek Hood will leave. Calme (isn't Tata himself a shareholder in that?) is opening two JD emporia in the USA I believe and rocking the boat is not a financial option. Another large dealer did comment that it would be in "everybody's interest" if the matter were dealt with privately.
How do you think it will be worked out between the current owners and Derek Hood ? Would they also be entitled to some sort of compensation ?I assume most of the alleged fraud took place before they bought into the company and one also assumes that they wouldn't have been aware of it, or of a pending court case.
Elephants: they are, as has been said, in waiting, but how many? Are we now saying that this type of fraud was limited to one specific company or are we now casting our eyes around to spot more? Is it just the clients of JD Classics or are there other dealers hiding their elephants? And what about auction houses that also are dealers? I witnessed a rather controversial car (in my opinion) at Silverstone and a bid was picked off the wall at £200,000 followed by a deathly silence. The car went unsold, not reaching the reserve. OK, that culture has been part of the auction scene since time immemorial but if it was a ring then that is illegal now, and has been for years. Then you can't hide behind caveat emptor. Which in itrself, if this grows, might lead to a new phrase of "cave empty".
We are speculating on what might just die a death and be swept under the carpet or might be just the tip of an iceberg. But it is going to be fun watching from the sidelines.
Nor would I laugh either. I've had one of my cars over 30 years and I was offered £75,000 in 1991 at the top of the market. I refused, and a year later it was worth £20,000. I missed a car at auction in 1992, chassis #21 E-type roadster, with £60,000 of restoration in it and that sold at £21,000. I now find myself the owner of one car that is worth more than my house. But I love the car, so no matter what the market brings she'll still be here. I have never been in it for the money. But there many gullible people out there who have been misled, and some of them badly so as we see here. It won't be just the rich who get burned.
Let's hope the bubble does burst.
The sooner we get rid of the speculators and everything associated with them, the better.
The only positive has been the boost to the restoration business, the remanufacture of obsolete spares and the fact that some previously unviable cars have been saved.
And I'm not saying this as some bitter old sod who has missed the boat. I made a few quid out of the present bubble when I decided to sell my old Lotus and I still have a vested financial interest in prices remaining firm.
I just preferred it when people asked me what my old car was like, rather than what it was worth.
The sooner we get rid of the speculators and everything associated with them, the better.
The only positive has been the boost to the restoration business, the remanufacture of obsolete spares and the fact that some previously unviable cars have been saved.
And I'm not saying this as some bitter old sod who has missed the boat. I made a few quid out of the present bubble when I decided to sell my old Lotus and I still have a vested financial interest in prices remaining firm.
I just preferred it when people asked me what my old car was like, rather than what it was worth.
Pat H said:
Let's hope the bubble does burst.
The sooner we get rid of the speculators and everything associated with them, the better.
The only positive has been the boost to the restoration business, the remanufacture of obsolete spares and the fact that some previously unviable cars have been saved.
And I'm not saying this as some bitter old sod who has missed the boat. I made a few quid out of the present bubble when I decided to sell my old Lotus and I still have a vested financial interest in prices remaining firm.
I just preferred it when people asked me what my old car was like, rather than what it was worth.
Brilliant and well said, i couldn't agree with you more !
The sooner we get rid of the speculators and everything associated with them, the better.
The only positive has been the boost to the restoration business, the remanufacture of obsolete spares and the fact that some previously unviable cars have been saved.
And I'm not saying this as some bitter old sod who has missed the boat. I made a few quid out of the present bubble when I decided to sell my old Lotus and I still have a vested financial interest in prices remaining firm.
I just preferred it when people asked me what my old car was like, rather than what it was worth.
Brilliant and well said, i couldn't agree with you more !
I was lucky enough to win a place to have a tour around JD Classics last year and we all had a great look around the cars and bikes which looked in immaculate condition.
We also went around the workshops and were told about restoration.
At the members meeting the other week I saw Derek Hood standing by the 4 cars they had on display so I asked one of the guys to introduce me to Derek which he did and we had quite a lengthy chat about the cars he had there and why they would not be going out on track (track had been salted)
Chatted about a number plate that was on one of th3 cars (D2) which was owned by my friend many Years ago.
Overall I found him a very ameanable man.
We also went around the workshops and were told about restoration.
At the members meeting the other week I saw Derek Hood standing by the 4 cars they had on display so I asked one of the guys to introduce me to Derek which he did and we had quite a lengthy chat about the cars he had there and why they would not be going out on track (track had been salted)
Chatted about a number plate that was on one of th3 cars (D2) which was owned by my friend many Years ago.
Overall I found him a very ameanable man.
EXKAY120 said:
Pat H said:
Let's hope the bubble does burst.
The sooner we get rid of the speculators and everything associated with them, the better.
The only positive has been the boost to the restoration business, the remanufacture of obsolete spares and the fact that some previously unviable cars have been saved.
And I'm not saying this as some bitter old sod who has missed the boat. I made a few quid out of the present bubble when I decided to sell my old Lotus and I still have a vested financial interest in prices remaining firm.
I just preferred it when people asked me what my old car was like, rather than what it was worth.
Brilliant and well said, i couldn't agree with you more !
The sooner we get rid of the speculators and everything associated with them, the better.
The only positive has been the boost to the restoration business, the remanufacture of obsolete spares and the fact that some previously unviable cars have been saved.
And I'm not saying this as some bitter old sod who has missed the boat. I made a few quid out of the present bubble when I decided to sell my old Lotus and I still have a vested financial interest in prices remaining firm.
I just preferred it when people asked me what my old car was like, rather than what it was worth.
Brilliant and well said, i couldn't agree with you more !
Also a bursting bubble will hit the businesses that service the classic car industry, how is this good news?
I get your sentiments but for me the benefits of a rising market significantly outweigh the prospect of a crash
Can the problems of one of the bigger companies cause a knock on effect on the others though?
Id say there are some out there potentially rubbing their hands at the chance of bagging some wealthy clients off the outcome of this.
As for values taking a hit, possibly but I doubt it. Ive only been in this corner of the market a short while but have seen the costs and the lengths the owners of these cars will go to to ensure they are kept as they were 50/60 years ago. One of our customers has a very well known Etype having the entire body stripped and put back to its original panel finish working from period photos only. Probably 1000 hours of work.
To some its owning a great part of history, where the cost or value is almost irrelevent and not being concerned that this year it didnt increase £100k....
Id say there are some out there potentially rubbing their hands at the chance of bagging some wealthy clients off the outcome of this.
As for values taking a hit, possibly but I doubt it. Ive only been in this corner of the market a short while but have seen the costs and the lengths the owners of these cars will go to to ensure they are kept as they were 50/60 years ago. One of our customers has a very well known Etype having the entire body stripped and put back to its original panel finish working from period photos only. Probably 1000 hours of work.
To some its owning a great part of history, where the cost or value is almost irrelevent and not being concerned that this year it didnt increase £100k....
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