JD Classics, what have they been up to?

JD Classics, what have they been up to?

Author
Discussion

jaisharma

1,019 posts

184 months

Tuesday 27th March 2018
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v8250 said:
I thought a quick company search would prove interesting. For your evening's entertainment

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0378819...

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/document-api-im...

https://hellopages.co.uk/directors/city-of-london/...

http://www.charmecapitalpartners.com/news/charme-c...

I sense all is not well with this structure. It's only going to take a small market shift, the current £9M claim and prospective buyers to start tightening the purse strings [or move to other markets] before Calme III the controlling owners of JDC move elsewhere. And liquidating high end classic cars in a downward market will be far from easy.
I had a quick read through the report and accounts. I claim no expertise but my views are -Quite profitable on paper though the valuation of stock is a significant item and will fluctuate with the market. As the market rose i expect the trend would be a requirement for more funding as a general principle though perhaps you can find that from profits.
If the case settles or the claimant gets judgement then it will be interesting to see whether the investors are reimbursed by the seller of the shares (i assume Mr Hood) as this claim pre dates the purchase.
The above is all just my own opinion and as mentioned above I have no knowledge or expertise

mph

2,338 posts

283 months

Wednesday 28th March 2018
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lowdrag said:
I was discussing that with someone only an hour ago. The feeling is that the matter will be settled out of court and perhaps Derek Hood will leave. Calme (isn't Tata himself a shareholder in that?) is opening two JD emporia in the USA I believe and rocking the boat is not a financial option. Another large dealer did comment that it would be in "everybody's interest" if the matter were dealt with privately.
How do you think it will be worked out between the current owners and Derek Hood ? Would they also be entitled to some sort of compensation ?

I assume most of the alleged fraud took place before they bought into the company and one also assumes that they wouldn't have been aware of it, or of a pending court case.



Willhire89

1,329 posts

206 months

Wednesday 28th March 2018
quotequote all
There is another elephant possibly waiting in the corridor.....

If this was Hood's usual m o (and let's be honest the court papers show a very clear pattern and not a one off) you can be sure that Tuke was not the only person who was subject to this practise.

The publicity at this stage has the prospect for other purchasers/sellers to at least review their position

_Sorted_

331 posts

78 months

Wednesday 28th March 2018
quotequote all
Willhire89 said:
...The publicity at this stage has the prospect for other purchasers/sellers to at least review their position
Meetings between editorial and advertising at the higher end classic car magazines will be interesting. Question on table. Do we throw J D Classics under a bus now (on basis of nothing proved), or in future (if it goes the wrong way for JDC), or pretend it never happened in order that we continue to get a supply of feature cars and the most important bit being advertising revenue?

Willhire89

1,329 posts

206 months

Wednesday 28th March 2018
quotequote all
_Sorted_ said:
or pretend it never happened
https://goodwoodmediacentre.com/4GCC-84P4-221J2TU973/cr.aspx

lowdrag

12,902 posts

214 months

Wednesday 28th March 2018
quotequote all
mph said:
lowdrag said:
I was discussing that with someone only an hour ago. The feeling is that the matter will be settled out of court and perhaps Derek Hood will leave. Calme (isn't Tata himself a shareholder in that?) is opening two JD emporia in the USA I believe and rocking the boat is not a financial option. Another large dealer did comment that it would be in "everybody's interest" if the matter were dealt with privately.
How do you think it will be worked out between the current owners and Derek Hood ? Would they also be entitled to some sort of compensation ?

I assume most of the alleged fraud took place before they bought into the company and one also assumes that they wouldn't have been aware of it, or of a pending court case.
Again the phone has been hot this morning. Has the matter gone too far and too public for them to back down now? Would an out of court settlement be viewed as an admission of guilt? Or do you look at it the other way round and limit the problem - at a price? I don't see that it matters that JD bought the controlling interest in 2016 really - I mean, where was their due diligence? It would depend on the sale agreement as to whether they bought the company warts and all with all the potential liabilities or whether, like buying a bankruptcy, acquiring the assets and leaving the liabilities behind, creating in effect JD Classics (2016) Ltd. We have people here who are far more intelligent than I and can quote chapter and verse on the law so just take my input as you would that of a barrack room lawyer.

Elephants: they are, as has been said, in waiting, but how many? Are we now saying that this type of fraud was limited to one specific company or are we now casting our eyes around to spot more? Is it just the clients of JD Classics or are there other dealers hiding their elephants? And what about auction houses that also are dealers? I witnessed a rather controversial car (in my opinion) at Silverstone and a bid was picked off the wall at £200,000 followed by a deathly silence. The car went unsold, not reaching the reserve. OK, that culture has been part of the auction scene since time immemorial but if it was a ring then that is illegal now, and has been for years. Then you can't hide behind caveat emptor. Which in itrself, if this grows, might lead to a new phrase of "cave empty".

We are speculating on what might just die a death and be swept under the carpet or might be just the tip of an iceberg. But it is going to be fun watching from the sidelines.

LaurasOtherHalf

21,429 posts

197 months

Wednesday 28th March 2018
quotequote all
Smarter people than me have been wondering what the Black Swan Event would be that caused the bubble to burst, I wondered if that shonky Bently might have been something to get the ball rolling but it seemed to be upheld in court. Maybe this is it?

Stephanie Plum

2,782 posts

212 months

Wednesday 28th March 2018
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I wouldn't describe it as a black swan event. Goings on in the classic car business are commonplace. The only surprise is that it's taken this long for stuff to make the news.

iSore

4,011 posts

145 months

Wednesday 28th March 2018
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LaurasOtherHalf said:
Smarter people than me have been wondering what the Black Swan Event would be that caused the bubble to burst,
What, where owners of high end stuff get nervous and decide to offload? laugh

I wouldn't laugh, much.

lowdrag

12,902 posts

214 months

Wednesday 28th March 2018
quotequote all
Nor would I laugh either. I've had one of my cars over 30 years and I was offered £75,000 in 1991 at the top of the market. I refused, and a year later it was worth £20,000. I missed a car at auction in 1992, chassis #21 E-type roadster, with £60,000 of restoration in it and that sold at £21,000. I now find myself the owner of one car that is worth more than my house. But I love the car, so no matter what the market brings she'll still be here. I have never been in it for the money. But there many gullible people out there who have been misled, and some of them badly so as we see here. It won't be just the rich who get burned.

Pat H

8,056 posts

257 months

Wednesday 28th March 2018
quotequote all
Let's hope the bubble does burst.

The sooner we get rid of the speculators and everything associated with them, the better.

The only positive has been the boost to the restoration business, the remanufacture of obsolete spares and the fact that some previously unviable cars have been saved.

And I'm not saying this as some bitter old sod who has missed the boat. I made a few quid out of the present bubble when I decided to sell my old Lotus and I still have a vested financial interest in prices remaining firm.

I just preferred it when people asked me what my old car was like, rather than what it was worth.



aeropilot

34,682 posts

228 months

Wednesday 28th March 2018
quotequote all
Pat H said:
I just preferred it when people asked me what my old car was like, rather than what it was worth.
yes

Answering the 'What'll she do mister"

rather than "What's the projected return on your investment"

was a much more fun period.......



iSore

4,011 posts

145 months

Wednesday 28th March 2018
quotequote all
AND THEY'RE OFF! JUST LOOK AT THOSE INVESTMENTS GO!!



lowdrag

12,902 posts

214 months

Wednesday 28th March 2018
quotequote all
Nice photo of Chris Lunn in the lead in his Knobbly. He owned my XKSS before me.

ETA: to avoid confusion, a Lynx replica XKSSwink





Edited by lowdrag on Wednesday 28th March 17:13

iSore

4,011 posts

145 months

Wednesday 28th March 2018
quotequote all
Ugly as sin!

No appeal to me at all, this era - it's the short tail 917's and 512 Ferraris that I'd like to see racing again.

A nice real/replica XKSS though......cool

EXKAY120

503 posts

118 months

Wednesday 28th March 2018
quotequote all
Pat H said:
Let's hope the bubble does burst.

The sooner we get rid of the speculators and everything associated with them, the better.

The only positive has been the boost to the restoration business, the remanufacture of obsolete spares and the fact that some previously unviable cars have been saved.

And I'm not saying this as some bitter old sod who has missed the boat. I made a few quid out of the present bubble when I decided to sell my old Lotus and I still have a vested financial interest in prices remaining firm.

I just preferred it when people asked me what my old car was like, rather than what it was worth.

Brilliant and well said, i couldn't agree with you more !

steve2

1,773 posts

219 months

Wednesday 28th March 2018
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I was lucky enough to win a place to have a tour around JD Classics last year and we all had a great look around the cars and bikes which looked in immaculate condition.
We also went around the workshops and were told about restoration.
At the members meeting the other week I saw Derek Hood standing by the 4 cars they had on display so I asked one of the guys to introduce me to Derek which he did and we had quite a lengthy chat about the cars he had there and why they would not be going out on track (track had been salted)
Chatted about a number plate that was on one of th3 cars (D2) which was owned by my friend many Years ago.
Overall I found him a very ameanable man.

Legacywr

12,151 posts

189 months

Wednesday 28th March 2018
quotequote all
steve2 said:
Overall I found him a very ameanable man.
They always are smile

Bobo W

765 posts

253 months

Wednesday 28th March 2018
quotequote all
EXKAY120 said:
Pat H said:
Let's hope the bubble does burst.

The sooner we get rid of the speculators and everything associated with them, the better.

The only positive has been the boost to the restoration business, the remanufacture of obsolete spares and the fact that some previously unviable cars have been saved.

And I'm not saying this as some bitter old sod who has missed the boat. I made a few quid out of the present bubble when I decided to sell my old Lotus and I still have a vested financial interest in prices remaining firm.

I just preferred it when people asked me what my old car was like, rather than what it was worth.

Brilliant and well said, i couldn't agree with you more !
I guess I'm in a minority here but why would you be pleased to see people who could be genuine enthusiasts lose money in the event of the bubble bursting. Not everyone in this market is a speculator.

Also a bursting bubble will hit the businesses that service the classic car industry, how is this good news?

I get your sentiments but for me the benefits of a rising market significantly outweigh the prospect of a crash

ExVantagemech..

5,728 posts

216 months

Wednesday 28th March 2018
quotequote all
Can the problems of one of the bigger companies cause a knock on effect on the others though?
Id say there are some out there potentially rubbing their hands at the chance of bagging some wealthy clients off the outcome of this.

As for values taking a hit, possibly but I doubt it. Ive only been in this corner of the market a short while but have seen the costs and the lengths the owners of these cars will go to to ensure they are kept as they were 50/60 years ago. One of our customers has a very well known Etype having the entire body stripped and put back to its original panel finish working from period photos only. Probably 1000 hours of work.
To some its owning a great part of history, where the cost or value is almost irrelevent and not being concerned that this year it didnt increase £100k....