TR6 engine swap

[InfinityJon]

Right. Don’t hate me but. I am thinking of putting a Alfa 3.2 V6 into a TR6......

Change if engine orientation, I Need to find a gearbox that will mount to the londitudinal amounted V6. Any ideas?

[anonymous-user]

No no no, that's wrong. It needs a V8 like this one!




https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[Yertis]

Why? The engine in the TR6 is one of the best aspects of the car.

[shirt]

An odd swap and not one i would say goes with the car, but an rx8 box would work

[Nincompoop]

Lovely. There's a fellow on the internet who has done the same with his Scimitar, using an MX5 gearbox. He has a build thread on a well-known Scim owner's site. Googling Scimitar Alfa V6 should take you straight there for the gory details. Please keep us updated!

[shirt]

Rx8 and mx5 gearbox is handily the same unit

[300bhp/ton]

InfinityJon said:

Right. Don’t hate me but. I am thinking of putting a Alfa 3.2 V6 into a TR6......

Change if engine orientation, I Need to find a gearbox that will mount to the londitudinal amounted V6. Any ideas?

No idea about the Alfa, but if it wasn't sold as a longitudinal engine, I expect any conversion setup will be complex, bespoke and expensive.

If you are wanting more power, I guess a BMW Inline 6 would be an engine to consider and plenty of gearbox option already in use. The Jaguar AJ16 would work too, but maybe not such a modern engine overall.

Jaguar V6 from an S-Type also comes with a manual gearbox.

[aeropilot]

Nincompoop said:

Lovely. There's a fellow on the internet who has done the same with his Scimitar, using an MX5 gearbox. He has a build thread on a well-known Scim owner's site. Googling Scimitar Alfa V6 should take you straight there for the gory details.

If that means someone is custom making cast MX5 gearbox to Alfa bellhousings than OP is onto a winner.

But, otherwise, the choice of the Alfa engine is a potential nightmare choice for TR. At least the Scimitar came with a V6 originally. Is the Alfa a narrow angle V6, if so, might not be such an issue in the TR?
With the issues with DVLA now, I wouldn't want to be loosing too many points and having to get into the hassle of BIVA. That LS installation looks OK though, but again, gearbox tunnel fit issues could be a problem with a big modern manual box, and again, mega points loss issues with VHI.

[300bhp/ton]

aeropilot said:

Nincompoop said:

Lovely. There's a fellow on the internet who has done the same with his Scimitar, using an MX5 gearbox. He has a build thread on a well-known Scim owner's site. Googling Scimitar Alfa V6 should take you straight there for the gory details.

If that means someone is custom making cast MX5 gearbox to Alfa bellhousings than OP is onto a winner.

But, otherwise, the choice of the Alfa engine is a potential nightmare choice for TR. At least the Scimitar came with a V6 originally. Is the Alfa a narrow angle V6, if so, might not be such an issue in the TR?
With the issues with DVLA now, I wouldn't want to be loosing too many points and having to get into the hassle of BIVA. That LS installation looks OK though, but again, gearbox tunnel fit issues could be a problem with a big modern manual box, and again, mega points loss issues with VHI.

I don't think anything has changed recently with the DVLA and what needs individual approval has it?

The points system is also a little vague, as it only applies for Radically altered Vehicles and not for Rebuilt Vehicles. But I've never seen a definition of how it is decided if it's Rebuilt or Radically Altered.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/rebuilt-ve...
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-...

[aeropilot]

300bhp/ton said:

aeropilot said:

Nincompoop said:

Lovely. There's a fellow on the internet who has done the same with his Scimitar, using an MX5 gearbox. He has a build thread on a well-known Scim owner's site. Googling Scimitar Alfa V6 should take you straight there for the gory details.

If that means someone is custom making cast MX5 gearbox to Alfa bellhousings than OP is onto a winner.

But, otherwise, the choice of the Alfa engine is a potential nightmare choice for TR. At least the Scimitar came with a V6 originally. Is the Alfa a narrow angle V6, if so, might not be such an issue in the TR?
With the issues with DVLA now, I wouldn't want to be loosing too many points and having to get into the hassle of BIVA. That LS installation looks OK though, but again, gearbox tunnel fit issues could be a problem with a big modern manual box, and again, mega points loss issues with VHI.

I don't think anything has changed recently with the DVLA and what needs individual approval has it?

Only in that they have essentially admitted that they have not really bothered to 'police' their own rules of the past 30 years, but that is now changed and they are now going to.

Points system is quite clear.

Points loss for engine/gearbox swap to a 'modern' type of any config, won't loose VHI, as long as no bodyshell mods required (hence comment about tranny tunnel clearances etc) and no change of axle type, steering etc.,etc is needed.

[Norfolkandchance]

The 3 litre and, I think, 2.5 litre V6 Alfa engines were used in the 75 and GTV6 which were both RWD. But, they also had a transaxle so gearbox not suitable. But at least these engines were designed to face the right way for a TR6!

[Norfolkandchance]

...but, as been said, a 3 litre BMW straight six would be a better fit, more in keeping in my view as it is the same layout, and would go at least as fast as the Alfa, and could come with a manual gearbox.

[OverSteery]

Have you googled "rwd gearboxes for alfa v6". Its a question that has been asked before many times....

[300bhp/ton]

aeropilot said:

Points system is quite clear.

Is it though? Seems as clear as mud to me. And that has always been the trouble with it.

e.g.

aeropilot said:

Points loss for engine/gearbox swap to a 'modern' type of any config, won't loose VHI, as long as no bodyshell mods required (hence comment about tranny tunnel clearances etc) and no change of axle type, steering etc.,etc is needed.

From this link: https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-...

Part	Points
Chassis, monocoque bodyshell (body and chassis as one unit) or frame - original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer)	5

Altering the transmission tunnel on a TR6 wouldn't be an issue.

However..

Follow this link:
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/rebuilt-ve...

No mention of points at all. And no definition to what counts as rebuilt. But clearly an engine swap is allowed.

But the wording is different:

the original unmodified chassis or bodyshell (car or light van)

I suspect the latter probably is meant to mean "monocoque" bodyshell. But as two individual statements they say very different things.


Both pages state:

-Steering assembly - original

But this is part of why it is not clear at all. What counts as the "steering assembly"? Does changing the steering wheel count as part of this for example.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Monday 12th November 14:13

[aeropilot]

300bhp/ton said:

Part	Points
Chassis, monocoque bodyshell (body and chassis as one unit) or frame - original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer)	5

Altering the transmission tunnel on a TR6 wouldn't be an issue.

Aah, yes, forgot the TR still had a seperate chassis, which does make things a little different.

However, technically, modifing that chassis by welding in repositioned engine/gearbox mounts would/could constitute a modified chassis.......seen that been picked up before with a imported 1940's yank.

Its all part of the current game of guesswork/risk now associated with modified classics.

[300bhp/ton]

aeropilot said:

Aah, yes, forgot the TR still had a seperate chassis, which does make things a little different.

However, technically, modifing that chassis by welding in repositioned engine/gearbox mounts would/could constitute a modified chassis.......seen that been picked up before with a imported 1940's yank.

Its all part of the current game of guesswork/risk now associated with modified classics.

I agree it is guesswork. As a rule I think welding in new engine mounts are not normally deemed as a chassis modification. As it would be pretty unreasonable to allow an engine swap, but no way of mounting it safely.

[johnxjsc1985]

Yertis said:

Why? The engine in the TR6 is one of the best aspects of the car.

I wonder why anyone would change the Spec of a TR6 like that what's the point of owning one if you then destroy it.

[300bhp/ton]

johnxjsc1985 said:

Yertis said:

Why? The engine in the TR6 is one of the best aspects of the car.

I wonder why anyone would change the Spec of a TR6 like that what's the point of owning one if you then destroy it.

I don't think it's that hard to see why someone might do something different. They might like the look of the car, but want more modern performance form it, with an every day 250hp+

The old TR engine is a gem, but will require a lot of money and effort to make it perform and then keep it performing. And 250hp is probably a stretch too far.

[aeropilot]

300bhp/ton said:

johnxjsc1985 said:

Yertis said:

Why? The engine in the TR6 is one of the best aspects of the car.

I wonder why anyone would change the Spec of a TR6 like that what's the point of owning one if you then destroy it.

I don't think it's that hard to see why someone might do something different. They might like the look of the car, but want more modern performance form it, with an every day 250hp+

The old TR engine is a gem, but will require a lot of money and effort to make it perform and then keep it performing. And 250hp is probably a stretch too far.

Trouble is, can the Trumpet rear IRS cope with much more than 200-225hp etc., (that LS lump could be interesting in that regard!) and then once you get into the realms of axle swaps, engine swaps, tranny swaps, and everything else, VHI retention now becomes an issue, and BIVA looms its head. That's not to say that BIVA is a huge problem, if you are not bothered too much about keeping period looks and details.

[DonkeyApple]

Plenty of original TR6s about, no harm in butchering one to make it what you want.

Like others I’m struggling with the V6 though. I just think a straight 6 is such a better engine and so right for English sports cars. The V6 always has that whiff of executive airport minicab to it.

BMW still own Triumph so surely it’s best to fit a BMW straight 6?