Importing car from South Africa
Discussion
My search for a classic camper van turned up a VW ‘jurgens autovilla’ which appears to fit my wishes. It’s a little more modern than my usual fare but is quirky and spacious.
The selling dealer has told me they will deal with all of the importing requirements upon my behalf, for a price of course, and I’m content with that. Today I have to make the decision to buy or not, I am still a little nervous as never imported a vehicle before, even though the dealer is ‘holding my hand’. All I need to do when the vehicle lands is register it apparently. Any experiences you may care to share to ease my nerves? or otherwise!!
Dealer seems very honest :
The selling dealer has told me they will deal with all of the importing requirements upon my behalf, for a price of course, and I’m content with that. Today I have to make the decision to buy or not, I am still a little nervous as never imported a vehicle before, even though the dealer is ‘holding my hand’. All I need to do when the vehicle lands is register it apparently. Any experiences you may care to share to ease my nerves? or otherwise!!
Dealer seems very honest :
Edited by crankedup on Tuesday 13th November 19:42
You want to check the SA registration details on paperwork very carefully before agreeing to import, given some of the issues on recent PH threads on import from SA.
There appears to be a few in UK already though, but, again, best check the wording on its current SA registration documentation.
There appears to be a few in UK already though, but, again, best check the wording on its current SA registration documentation.
Edited by aeropilot on Monday 12th November 13:24
aeropilot said:
You want to check the SA registration details on paperwork very carefully before agreeing to import, given some of the issues on recent PH threads on import from SA.
There appears to be a few in UK already though, but, again, best check the wording on its current SA registration documentation.
Thanks for comment. Dealer tells me they have all required papers on the vehicle. TBH what would I be looking for on the SA reg document.There appears to be a few in UK already though, but, again, best check the wording on its current SA registration documentation.
Edited by aeropilot on Monday 12th November 13:24
crankedup said:
aeropilot said:
You want to check the SA registration details on paperwork very carefully before agreeing to import, given some of the issues on recent PH threads on import from SA.
There appears to be a few in UK already though, but, again, best check the wording on its current SA registration documentation.
Thanks for comment. Dealer tells me they have all required papers on the vehicle. TBH what would I be looking for on the SA reg document.There appears to be a few in UK already though, but, again, best check the wording on its current SA registration documentation.
Edited by aeropilot on Monday 12th November 13:24
Hopefully it has a 'continuous registration' history in SA and all will be OK.
aeropilot said:
crankedup said:
aeropilot said:
You want to check the SA registration details on paperwork very carefully before agreeing to import, given some of the issues on recent PH threads on import from SA.
There appears to be a few in UK already though, but, again, best check the wording on its current SA registration documentation.
Thanks for comment. Dealer tells me they have all required papers on the vehicle. TBH what would I be looking for on the SA reg document.There appears to be a few in UK already though, but, again, best check the wording on its current SA registration documentation.
Edited by aeropilot on Monday 12th November 13:24
Hopefully it has a 'continuous registration' history in SA and all will be OK.
Had to look up VW ‘jurgens autovilla' as I'd never heard of them.
Turns out Jurgens is an SA campervan manufacturer, so maybe I may be forgiven. Reassuring, or not? Is a campervan built on an imported chassis "built up"? There's one for sale in the UK: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-T2-Jurgens-camper-19...
f:0
No connection, of course,
John
Turns out Jurgens is an SA campervan manufacturer, so maybe I may be forgiven. Reassuring, or not? Is a campervan built on an imported chassis "built up"? There's one for sale in the UK: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-T2-Jurgens-camper-19...
f:0No connection, of course,
John
tapkaJohnD said:
Had to look up VW ‘jurgens autovilla' as I'd never heard of them.
Turns out Jurgens is an SA campervan manufacturer, so maybe I may be forgiven. Reassuring, or not? Is a campervan built on an imported chassis "built up"? There's one for sale in the UK: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-T2-Jurgens-camper-19...f:0
No connection, of course,
John
Thanks for posting and link, although I was aware of the two ‘Jurgens’ for sale in woodbridge.Turns out Jurgens is an SA campervan manufacturer, so maybe I may be forgiven. Reassuring, or not? Is a campervan built on an imported chassis "built up"? There's one for sale in the UK: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-T2-Jurgens-camper-19...
f:0No connection, of course,
John
Done my homework on jurgens and they are a respected coach builder, although they are still involved in camper business they no longer build the actual camper bodies. Only a 1000 campers were built apparently. They brought in the T2 rolling cab and chassis from VW and built the camper body onto the chassis.
Like you I had not heard of Jurgens prior to my considerations to purchase the van which popped up on my ipad.
As i have said on other similar threads, some of the information may have changed but the principles remain.
South Africa is/was an interesting market in terms of locally produced specials that differed from similar models offered within Europe. South African Alfetta GTV 3.0, Ford Sierra XR8, BMW 333i are but a few. Unfortunately, some of the specials are not recorded on the EU manufacturer database, for example, Alfa Romeo Italy has no records of SA chassis numbers so cant verify and therefore licence discs (road tax discs) need to be cross checked with registration documents, etc - licence discs have chassis and engine numbers on).
Check first with manufacturer/UK club or owners Club, etc to verify actual chassis number - proof of EU manufacture if relevant is vital to avoid car duty.
Check the foreign registration and roadworthy (MOT) equivalents carefully, some of the cars i imported had either a mistake in the chassis number along the lines of a "2" instead of a "z" and the date of manufacture as listed by manufacturer's historical archives post dated the foreign registration in South Africa causing a few NOVA and DVLA issues along the way requiring letters from UK marque and owners club experts to rectify.
This is important as cars have to go through a police check to verify identity and prevent fraudulent export of stolen cars - at this check they are microdotted and my Lancia Beta had to go back and forth 3 times before police could find the engine number (personally i think they still couldn't find it but got bored of the car).
As for proof of payment of annual license fees - again as one of my car's had been off the road for a few years, I had to retrospectively pay several years license fees to bring it up to date prior to export approval.
Re MOTs, SA cars only need a roadworthy (MOT) test on change of ownership and these are typically done at government run operators. This also means if a car has a long term owner, you have no real idea re corrosion, etc.
i made the mistake of having cambelts and other work done in South Africa (much cheaper labour rates) prior to export by well known marque expert in SA only to find when the car arrived in the UK, most of the work had not been done.
Most South African owners are crap at keeping paperwork and as a rule, are not nearly a diligent as British classic car owners in that respect.
When registering in UK, DVLA tend to retain or lose 1/2 the documentation you send them so make colour photocopies of all you send - ask me how I know.
MOT can be done on chassis number and make sure they specify kilometres instead of miles on the MOT and get the chassis number absolutely correct.
Finally, whilst there are some genuine sellers, there are also a number of sharks who have moved in the car export scene in South Africa, especially with the GTV6 3.0 cars as there are some fairly good fakes being touted, money going missing, etc.
Caveat emptor!
South Africa is/was an interesting market in terms of locally produced specials that differed from similar models offered within Europe. South African Alfetta GTV 3.0, Ford Sierra XR8, BMW 333i are but a few. Unfortunately, some of the specials are not recorded on the EU manufacturer database, for example, Alfa Romeo Italy has no records of SA chassis numbers so cant verify and therefore licence discs (road tax discs) need to be cross checked with registration documents, etc - licence discs have chassis and engine numbers on).
Check first with manufacturer/UK club or owners Club, etc to verify actual chassis number - proof of EU manufacture if relevant is vital to avoid car duty.
Check the foreign registration and roadworthy (MOT) equivalents carefully, some of the cars i imported had either a mistake in the chassis number along the lines of a "2" instead of a "z" and the date of manufacture as listed by manufacturer's historical archives post dated the foreign registration in South Africa causing a few NOVA and DVLA issues along the way requiring letters from UK marque and owners club experts to rectify.
This is important as cars have to go through a police check to verify identity and prevent fraudulent export of stolen cars - at this check they are microdotted and my Lancia Beta had to go back and forth 3 times before police could find the engine number (personally i think they still couldn't find it but got bored of the car).
As for proof of payment of annual license fees - again as one of my car's had been off the road for a few years, I had to retrospectively pay several years license fees to bring it up to date prior to export approval.
Re MOTs, SA cars only need a roadworthy (MOT) test on change of ownership and these are typically done at government run operators. This also means if a car has a long term owner, you have no real idea re corrosion, etc.
i made the mistake of having cambelts and other work done in South Africa (much cheaper labour rates) prior to export by well known marque expert in SA only to find when the car arrived in the UK, most of the work had not been done.
Most South African owners are crap at keeping paperwork and as a rule, are not nearly a diligent as British classic car owners in that respect.
When registering in UK, DVLA tend to retain or lose 1/2 the documentation you send them so make colour photocopies of all you send - ask me how I know.
MOT can be done on chassis number and make sure they specify kilometres instead of miles on the MOT and get the chassis number absolutely correct.
Finally, whilst there are some genuine sellers, there are also a number of sharks who have moved in the car export scene in South Africa, especially with the GTV6 3.0 cars as there are some fairly good fakes being touted, money going missing, etc.
Caveat emptor!
Edited by arguti on Wednesday 14th November 09:05
Thank yo arguti for such an informative post, much appreciated.
Sadly or fortunately, I struck upon a problem whilst I was going about my due diligence prior to
making payment for the vehicle. I noticed a discrepancy in the address between the invoice I had been sent and the emails that we had exchanged prior to invoice. Only a small discrepancy but very important for me. The business is based in a business park, the unit number you would think would be the same in emails as invoice.
This prompted me to dig deeper and I Googled the business park address and went onto thier website. The business I was dealing with was not listed within the business parks list of tenants. Final straw came from the road the business was stated to be in did not exist on the business park, although a very close name does exist.
I was convinced that my purchase would have been OK judging by website of business, correspondence and general attitude. Buyer beware!!!!
Sadly or fortunately, I struck upon a problem whilst I was going about my due diligence prior to
making payment for the vehicle. I noticed a discrepancy in the address between the invoice I had been sent and the emails that we had exchanged prior to invoice. Only a small discrepancy but very important for me. The business is based in a business park, the unit number you would think would be the same in emails as invoice.
This prompted me to dig deeper and I Googled the business park address and went onto thier website. The business I was dealing with was not listed within the business parks list of tenants. Final straw came from the road the business was stated to be in did not exist on the business park, although a very close name does exist.
I was convinced that my purchase would have been OK judging by website of business, correspondence and general attitude. Buyer beware!!!!
crankedup said:
craigjm said:
Is VAT and import duty already taken into account in the price?
Yes it was, VAT was at 5%, shipping with import was just over £2k. All academic now sadly, I was really excited about buying the vehicle but just can’t get past the ‘system error’ that I picked up on.crankedup said:
arguti said:
No problem, I have added some extra pointers
Thanks again.Did you read of my troubles with the proposed purchase? Decided to withdraw from the proposed deal.
I was fortunate in that of the 3 cars i moved over from SA, I had inherited 2 and the 3rd was through a friend who knew the seller well ...if I were buying "unseen" from South Africa (unseen referring to car and seller) I would be splitting the payment into deposit, second stage when cleared through customs etc or possibly even use an escrow agent.
As as means of a cautionary tale, i was thinking of purchasing a car from Spain and somebody advised me to use a expatriate DVLA equivalent checking outfit who confirmed the registration details did not correspond to the vehicle I was interested in and walked away.
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