Electrifying Classic Cars

[HustleRussell]

T-195 said:

HustleRussell said:

singlecoil said:

HustleRussell said:

T-195 said:

Deciding to put an Electric motor in a classic is a bit like deciding to have a sex change.

No going back and most people will be wondering why the hell you did it in the first.

Not a great analogy as it turns out- and a bit of an unnecessary dig at transgender people to boot.

No that you point it out, that was a rather unpleasant thing to say. I realise he was hunting around for something nasty to say about people converting classics but to choose that was a bit OTT.

Prepare to be accused of being a snowflake, or 'professionally offended' (whatever that means? I design process plant facilities for a living and have no part-time job).

Big yawn!

I love how you are more offended at my post than Dave Hedgehog's one about "Comrade Corbyn' s Alt Left Nutjobs".

I did wonder if exactly predicting your reaction would discourage you from expressing it but apparently not.

Being that the thread is about 'electrifying classic cars', your transphobic comment and Dave Hedgehog's comment about politics are equally off-topic.

[HealeyV8]

I believe for originality re-selling the idea is to store the original drive train and offer the car for sale with this.

[LordBretSinclair]

This Aston DB6 was at a recent AMOC meeting - really neat conversion and apparently easily reversible - make of it as you wish

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/aston-martin/105412/...

[The Surveyor]

Dave Hedgehog said:

MikeyC said:

Classic cars will always survive without this type of 'open heart surgery' being applied to them

that i would seriously doubt on a long enough time line, it seams probable to me that at some point that ICE engines will be banned from the road over a long enough time line

the EV may not be the final death nail for ICE cars but the next technology may well be

I'm not sure they will ever be banned off the road, their use may be restricted but never banned IMHO.

If you look at the parallels with all other motoring 'developments', regardless of what becomes compulsory or banned off modern vehicles its never applied retrospectively. Even the most significant safety improvements such as seatbelts and airbags hasn't resulted in a ban for older cars without such equipment, this is primarily because everybody knows that the effected numbers are an ever-reducing tiny percentage.

They may ban ICE engine production, or the sale of new ICE cars over the next 10- 20 years, but that doesn't automatically mean older cars will ever be banned off the road.

[Escapegoat]

The Surveyor said:

I'm not sure they will ever be banned off the road, their use may be restricted but never banned IMHO.

If you look at the parallels with all other motoring 'developments', regardless of what becomes compulsory or banned off modern vehicles its never applied retrospectively. Even the most significant safety improvements such as seatbelts and airbags hasn't resulted in a ban for older cars without such equipment, this is primarily because everybody knows that the effected numbers are an ever-reducing tiny percentage.

They may ban ICE engine production, or the sale of new ICE cars over the next 10- 20 years, but that doesn't automatically mean older cars will ever be banned off the road.

Once EVs get to a critical size of the market, the petrol distributors will lose their economies of scale, though. So petrol will become a niche/hobby product and the cost to buy will go up significantly.

(Might even need to get it delivered if/when filling stations change their business models.)

[Allan L]

Escapegoat said:

(Might even need to get it delivered if/when filling stations change their business models.)

or get it in 2 gallon tins from the chemist.

[DonkeyApple]

HealeyV8 said:

If you love your classic and have owned it, cared for it etc. for some time and more importantly drive it as much as you can.
You will like me keep an eye on this EV convertion for the future.
I'm pessimistic and can see a time before I die that my car could be legislated off the road so unless I want to watch it degenerate in it's garage I would probably go down this route to keep using it.
You can go on about a car not being THE car because the engine is now electric as much as you want but if you can't legally drive it, it's just a mettalic sculpture and the engine is meaningless.

I'm a step closer because I've already ditched the original engine for something more reliable (and better in my opinion).

Bring on graphene battery tech and other advances!

The conversion is something that I keep mulling over as an interesting project for a Range Rover Classic.

The diesel model is an immensely uninspiring vehicle and a Nissan Leaf drivetrain has more power and makes a much more pleasant noise. At the same time the Rangie has plenty of bonnet space to fit the kit and some of the batteries and plenty of space at the back for the remaining batteries.

It would make for a much more pleasant local potterer and the cost of replacing the diesel lump with an electric motor isn’t going to be a huge amount more than replacing it with a Rover V8.

[a8hex]

DonkeyApple said:

The conversion is something that I keep mulling over as an interesting project for a Range Rover Classic.

The diesel model is an immensely uninspiring vehicle and a Nissan Leaf drivetrain has more power and makes a much more pleasant noise. At the same time the Rangie has plenty of bonnet space to fit the kit and some of the batteries and plenty of space at the back for the remaining batteries.

It would make for a much more pleasant local potterer and the cost of replacing the diesel lump with an electric motor isn’t going to be a huge amount more than replacing it with a Rover V8.

I'd had similar thoughts about my X300 Jag except that has a good engine, but it isn't in anyway key to the overall experience of the car. Something like the XK150 or even X150 is so much about the engine there wouldn't be any point in swapping it out. But for this other car, the over all experience is about everything else to do with the car, its quiet smooth ride, its comfort, the looks inside and out etc. An electric one, even with a limited range might be quite fun. I'd probably not be taking the car when going on longer trips anyway so 100miles would be OK. As long as there's plenty of torque available, why not.
I'm not intending to actual do anything about it, but its an interesting thought.

[The Surveyor]

Allan L said:

Escapegoat said:

(Might even need to get it delivered if/when filling stations change their business models.)

or get it in 2 gallon tins from the chemist.

Maybe, it'll be similar to the lead replacement additive that plenty of people still use some 20 years after leaded fuel was banned, real-world progress is incredibly slow. Regardless, even if they make petrol increasingly difficult to buy, that's not the same as banning petrol cars off the road.

[//j17]

The Surveyor said:

Allan L said:

Escapegoat said:

(Might even need to get it delivered if/when filling stations change their business models.)

or get it in 2 gallon tins from the chemist.

Maybe, it'll be similar to the lead replacement additive that plenty of people still use some 20 years after leaded fuel was banned, real-world progress is incredibly slow. Regardless, even if they make petrol increasingly difficult to buy, that's not the same as banning petrol cars off the road.

It's not really similar to an additive though. In that case petrol was still the same group of hydrocarbons, coming out of the same pump, on the same petrol station forecourt. The only change was what was also mixed in with those hydrocarbons and the addatives let you add that, or something that did the same job, back in.

In this case people fewer and fewer people will be stopping at filling stations to buy hydrocarbons but may be stopping wanting to use ultra-fast charging plugs, and from the station owners point of view it that will mean those old hydrocarbon pumps are just taking up space that could be used for another car/ultra-fast charging plug... Either that or an ultra-fast charging system won't be developed and selling petrol will hit the point where it doesn't make money and the stations will close.

Of course you'll still be able to find petrol stations or buy your own, as you can with leaded 4-star even now. Just. (The FBHVC list 13 filling stations in the UK still selling leaded petrol and an 19 litre drum of leaded 4-star will set you back £90, or £4.74/litre).

Personally I can't see myself driving to Le Mans and back with a drum or two of petrol strapped to the boot of my Spitfire. I can see myself driving my electric Spitfire to Le Mans though (with a load more battery/charging development of course).

[Escapegoat]

//j17 said:

It's not really similar to an additive though. In that case petrol was still the same group of hydrocarbons, coming out of the same pump, on the same petrol station forecourt. The only change was what was also mixed in with those hydrocarbons and the addatives let you add that, or something that did the same job, back in.

In this case people fewer and fewer people will be stopping at filling stations to buy hydrocarbons but may be stopping wanting to use ultra-fast charging plugs, and from the station owners point of view it that will mean those old hydrocarbon pumps are just taking up space that could be used for another car/ultra-fast charging plug... Either that or an ultra-fast charging system won't be developed and selling petrol will hit the point where it doesn't make money and the stations will close.

Of course you'll still be able to find petrol stations or buy your own, as you can with leaded 4-star even now. Just. (The FBHVC list 13 filling stations in the UK still selling leaded petrol and an 19 litre drum of leaded 4-star will set you back £90, or £4.74/litre).

Personally I can't see myself driving to Le Mans and back with a drum or two of petrol strapped to the boot of my Spitfire. I can see myself driving my electric Spitfire to Le Mans though (with a load more battery/charging development of course).

Exactly.

I need to think a bit. My two oldies are both light and mid-engined and I'm not at all sure that EV conversion is a good idea, even if the £20k (likely) cost was bearable.

[The Surveyor]

//j17 said:

The Surveyor said:

Allan L said:

Escapegoat said:

(Might even need to get it delivered if/when filling stations change their business models.)

or get it in 2 gallon tins from the chemist.

Maybe, it'll be similar to the lead replacement additive that plenty of people still use some 20 years after leaded fuel was banned, real-world progress is incredibly slow. Regardless, even if they make petrol increasingly difficult to buy, that's not the same as banning petrol cars off the road.

It's not really similar to an additive though. In that case petrol was still the same group of hydrocarbons, coming out of the same pump, on the same petrol station forecourt. The only change was what was also mixed in with those hydrocarbons and the addatives let you add that, or something that did the same job, back in.

In this case people fewer and fewer people will be stopping at filling stations to buy hydrocarbons but may be stopping wanting to use ultra-fast charging plugs, and from the station owners point of view it that will mean those old hydrocarbon pumps are just taking up space that could be used for another car/ultra-fast charging plug... Either that or an ultra-fast charging system won't be developed and selling petrol will hit the point where it doesn't make money and the stations will close.

Of course you'll still be able to find petrol stations or buy your own, as you can with leaded 4-star even now. Just. (The FBHVC list 13 filling stations in the UK still selling leaded petrol and an 19 litre drum of leaded 4-star will set you back £90, or £4.74/litre).
...).

I was using the 'petrol additive' as an example of the way we get around legislation changes to ensure we can still enjoy our old cars.

We're talking about changes that are not going to impact on the small percentage of classic car users for decades, and rest assured there will be many alternative EV power supplies in that time beyond the crude and basic EV conversions which are being touted around now. What I'm saying is don't ruin your classic with a rubbish EV conversion until you have too, if that day ever actually occurs the technology will be so much better than it is today.

//j17 said:

Personally I can't see myself driving to Le Mans and back with a drum or two of petrol strapped to the boot of my Spitfire. I can see myself driving my electric Spitfire to Le Mans though (with a load more battery/charging development of course).

Lol, I agree 100%, although by then I'd be very surprised if there was a Le Mans to actually visit.

[The Motorist]

Electric motors have their benefits and their place.
But I don’t think that place is in a historic vehicle.

[Blib]

I investigated electrifying Mrs B's 1970, Fiat 500. A suitable system would cost about £20k.

I'll look again when there's more players in the market.

[DonkeyApple]

a8hex said:

DonkeyApple said:

The conversion is something that I keep mulling over as an interesting project for a Range Rover Classic.

The diesel model is an immensely uninspiring vehicle and a Nissan Leaf drivetrain has more power and makes a much more pleasant noise. At the same time the Rangie has plenty of bonnet space to fit the kit and some of the batteries and plenty of space at the back for the remaining batteries.

It would make for a much more pleasant local potterer and the cost of replacing the diesel lump with an electric motor isn’t going to be a huge amount more than replacing it with a Rover V8.

I'd had similar thoughts about my X300 Jag except that has a good engine, but it isn't in anyway key to the overall experience of the car. Something like the XK150 or even X150 is so much about the engine there wouldn't be any point in swapping it out. But for this other car, the over all experience is about everything else to do with the car, its quiet smooth ride, its comfort, the looks inside and out etc. An electric one, even with a limited range might be quite fun. I'd probably not be taking the car when going on longer trips anyway so 100miles would be OK. As long as there's plenty of torque available, why not.
I'm not intending to actual do anything about it, but its an interesting thought.

I think that’s the key observation, of the engine is a key part of the experience then it has far less appeal.

From the political perspective, the only worry is that the more people that do it and publicise it then the more the loonies who want power will think everyone should do it.

[lowdrag]

Here's a thought for you all:-

[EXKAY120]

I suppose it would end all this "matching numbers" rubbish ! the cars been rebuilt with all new panels, new interior, new wheels, new paint, but oh, its MATCHING NUMBERS ! in the old days it would have be called a ringer !

[Dave Hedgehog]

Blib said:

I investigated electrifying Mrs B's 1970, Fiat 500. A suitable system would cost about £20k.

I'll look again when there's more players in the market.

A lot of conversions are done to cars with the engine missing or needing expensive repairs, one of the EV 308s had an engine bay fire

[DonkeyApple]

EXKAY120 said:

I suppose it would end all this "matching numbers" rubbish ! the cars been rebuilt with all new panels, new interior, new wheels, new paint, but oh, its MATCHING NUMBERS ! in the old days it would have be called a ringer !

Shouldn’t do. The chaps who currently create matching numbers just stamp the outside of the electric motor.

[Escapegoat]

lowdrag said:

Here's a thought for you all:-

Um... what am I looking at?