Electrifying Classic Cars

[bigdog3]

singlecoil said:

Try this link for some info, in the shop section, on the weight of the necessary components for a conversion such as the one I have described.

https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/

And if you read through your own links you will see that the engine only amounts to one point.

Small modern EVs need a minimum of 40 kWh battery capacity to achieve around 160 mile range in good conditions. Greater aero drag of classic cars will reduce that range.

Used Tesla Model S battery module in your link weighs 26 kg and costs £1350 but only has 5.3 kWh energy storage (less when old). You would need eight of these packs to provide usable range. These would weigh 208 kg and cost £10,800 second-hand.

Many EVs have increased energy capacity to 100 kWh to address limited range. These 19 modules would weigh 494 kg (almost half a ton) and cost £25,650.

Of course you could always fit just one battery module and expire after 18 miles.

Kerb weight of a 1963 Morris Minor 1000 is 762 kg

https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/batteries/te...

Edited by bigdog3 on Tuesday 27th August 12:14

[alfaspecial]

singlecoil said:

Try this link for some info, in the shop section, on the weight of the necessary components for a conversion such as the one I have described.

https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/

And if you read through your own links you will see that the engine only amounts to one point.

Edited by singlecoil on Tuesday 27th August 11:15

As I have said -at least twice - I think that on a small scale you can get away with a classic car EV conversion.
But - as soon as the first fatality, as a direct result of a conversion from ICE to EV, is 'proven' through the courts conversions will be subject to legislation. And that will be IVA.
And, as Peter3442 has said, there are other engineering issues. For example fitting regenerative braking requires another 'point'.


I think we need to be pragmatic. EVs might be the thing of the future for mainstream cars but - other than on a very limited scale - have virtually no potential for us classic car fans.

Checking out your link the cheapest motor is best part of £3k. A single battery pack £1.35k Adapter kit £1k charger £3k Total cost £8.35k FOR A SINGLE BATTERY PACK! conversion.

Probably fine if you live on St Mary's (Isles of Scilly) but of not much use elsewhere.


For the record £8.35k buys 1471 gallons of petrol...... enough for 44000 miles @ 30mpg

[bigdog3]

alfaspecial said:

Checking out your link the cheapest motor is best part of £3k. A single battery pack £1.35k Adapter kit £1k charger £3k Total cost £8.35k FOR A SINGLE BATTERY PACK! conversion.

Probably fine if you live on St Mary's (Isles of Scilly) but of not much use elsewhere.

You need rather more than just one battery pack

alfaspecial said:

For the record £8.35k buys 1471 gallons of petrol...... enough for 44000 miles @ 30mpg

How many classic cars travel over 3000 miles/year? So even your underestimated £8.35k gives 15 years of authentic classic motoring

[alfaspecial]

bigdog3 said:

alfaspecial said:

Checking out your link the cheapest motor is best part of £3k. A single battery pack £1.35k Adapter kit £1k charger £3k Total cost £8.35k FOR A SINGLE BATTERY PACK! conversion.

Probably fine if you live on St Mary's (Isles of Scilly) but of not much use elsewhere.

You need rather more than just one battery pack

alfaspecial said:

For the record £8.35k buys 1471 gallons of petrol...... enough for 44000 miles @ 30mpg

How many classic cars travel over 3000 miles/year? So even your underestimated £8.35k gives 15 years of authentic classic motoring

One battery pack should be sufficient:
My example was St Mary's Isles of Scilly. With (according to wikipedia) 4.7 miles of roads!

44000 miles would be getting on for 10,000 times around the island.

[bigdog3]

alfaspecial said:

One battery pack should be sufficient:
My example was St Mary's Isles of Scilly. With (according to wikipedia) 4.7 miles of roads!

44000 miles would be getting on for 10,000 times around the island.

Ok I'll concede that point. One battery pack would get you across that tiny island and back, once

[alfaspecial]

bigdog3 said:

alfaspecial said:

One battery pack should be sufficient:
My example was St Mary's Isles of Scilly. With (according to wikipedia) 4.7 miles of roads!

44000 miles would be getting on for 10,000 times around the island.

Ok I'll concede that point. One battery pack would get you across that tiny island and back, once

HoHo. Unless of course you have the a/c on. Or it was raining and you needed the wipers. Or it was cold. Or it was dark and you needed the lights on. Or you had the radio on.

Edited by alfaspecial on Tuesday 27th August 13:54

[singlecoil]

alfaspecial said:

singlecoil said:

Try this link for some info, in the shop section, on the weight of the necessary components for a conversion such as the one I have described.

https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/

And if you read through your own links you will see that the engine only amounts to one point.

As I have said -at least twice - I think that on a small scale you can get away with a classic car EV conversion.
But - as soon as the first fatality, as a direct result of a conversion from ICE to EV, is 'proven' through the courts conversions will be subject to legislation. And that will be IVA.
And, as Peter3442 has said, there are other engineering issues. For example fitting regenerative braking requires another 'point'.

Why are you so frightened of the IVA? For a while I made my living preparing cars for the IVA and putting them through it. So even if it did turn out to be required, which it won't be, it still isn't a problem and anyone who does good work will welcome it.

alfaspecial said:

I think we need to be pragmatic. EVs might be the thing of the future for mainstream cars but - other than on a very limited scale - have virtually no potential for us classic car fans.

Checking out your link the cheapest motor is best part of £3k. A single battery pack £1.35k Adapter kit £1k charger £3k Total cost £8.35k FOR A SINGLE BATTERY PACK! conversion.

Yes, of course it will cost money, but it isn't all about the money. Car and engineering enthusiasts will only worry about the money if they haven't got enough of it to do what they want to do. Why on earth would you think it was about the money?

[alfaspecial]

singlecoil said:

alfaspecial said:

singlecoil said:

stuff
.

Why are you so frightened of the IVA? For a while I made my living preparing cars for the IVA and putting them through it. So even if it did turn out to be required, which it won't be, it still isn't a problem and anyone who does good work will welcome it.

alfaspecial said:

I think we need to be pragmatic. EVs might be the thing of the future for mainstream cars but - other than on a very limited scale - have virtually no potential for us classic car fans.

Checking out your link the cheapest motor is best part of £3k. A single battery pack £1.35k Adapter kit £1k charger £3k Total cost £8.35k FOR A SINGLE BATTERY PACK! conversion.

Yes, of course it will cost money, but it isn't all about the money. Car and engineering enthusiasts will only worry about the money if they haven't got enough of it to do what they want to do. Why on earth would you think it was about the money?

Frightened of IVA?
Yes, I/ am. If you had to prepare a car to todays standards for say passenger and pedestrian safety, how could (say) a Bugatti T35 ever pass. Or a model T. Or an Austin 7.
No way.
If you prepared cars for IVAs they were presumably kit cars? Manufacturers with budgets and a business model. Not Jo Bloggs modifying their personal car from scratch.
You see, its not JUST engines & emissions. It's the whole package.



Money - well £8.35k might be justifiable for some owners but it represents (as I said) 1000s of gallons of fuel - paid UP FRONT, as opposed to over the lifetime of a car.


If I lived in London and did all my motoring there I might be tempted. But I live in the sticks

[bigdog3]

alfaspecial said:

Money - well £8.35k might be justifiable for some owners...

£8.35k is a fraction of the actual EV conversion cost.

[singlecoil]

alfaspecial said:

Frightened of IVA?
Yes, I/ am. If you had to prepare a car to todays standards for say passenger and pedestrian safety, how could (say) a Bugatti T35 ever pass. Or a model T. Or an Austin 7.
No way.
If you prepared cars for IVAs they were presumably kit cars? Manufacturers with budgets and a business model. Not Jo Bloggs modifying their personal car from scratch.
You see, its not JUST engines & emissions. It's the whole package.

Money - well £8.35k might be justifiable for some owners but it represents (as I said) 1000s of gallons of fuel - paid UP FRONT, as opposed to over the lifetime of a car.

at you trying to school me about the IVA and making assumptions about what I did.

The money aspect I've already tried to explain to you. Read it again without such a negative attitude and maybe you will get it next time. Also, read my post where I explained how a converted car would suit ME perfectly. I get that it wouldn't suit you, but that's of no concern to me.

[alfaspecial]

singlecoil said:

alfaspecial said:

Frightened of IVA?
Yes, I/ am. If you had to prepare a car to todays standards for say passenger and pedestrian safety, how could (say) a Bugatti T35 ever pass. Or a model T. Or an Austin 7.
No way.
If you prepared cars for IVAs they were presumably kit cars? Manufacturers with budgets and a business model. Not Jo Bloggs modifying their personal car from scratch.
You see, its not JUST engines & emissions. It's the whole package.

Money - well £8.35k might be justifiable for some owners but it represents (as I said) 1000s of gallons of fuel - paid UP FRONT, as opposed to over the lifetime of a car.

at you trying to school me about the IVA and making assumptions about what I did.

The money aspect I've already tried to explain to you. Read it again without such a negative attitude and maybe you will get it next time. Also, read my post where I explained how a converted car would suit ME perfectly. I get that it wouldn't suit you, but that's of no concern to me.

re IVAs so what vehicles did you get through IVAs? And were they 'old' vehicles where the basic designs did not meet current standards? eg Bugatti T35 / Austin 7s etc.
I doubt my 'classic' would meet current IVA standards - see my profile.

The money aspect IS relevant. As Bigdog3 said even the £8.35k quoted (single battery pack) is just a fraction of the cost involved.
OK one might be able to justify say a more realistic £50k to convert (say) a multi battery pack 'E' Type Jaguar..... and there might be a few who would pay (say) £25k to convert a mini - After all there is(?) a market for those David Brown remastered minis.
But not many.

And as I have said, wait until AFTER the first case when a EV converted classic car (owner) is held legally liable for a fire or whatever.
There is a strong and growing anti-car body. They want to end all personal mobility vehicles.

With regard to this consider
Quote " Also, read my post where I explained how a converted car would suit ME perfectly. I get that it wouldn't suit you, but that's of no concern to me."

A converted EV would suit you. But what car is it. A converted Range Rover maybe would pass IVA but not more period (older) vehicles with seperate mudguards etc

[singlecoil]

alfaspecial said:

stuff, including irrelevant stuff about cars that could not pass an IVA

I knew you hadn't read it

singlecoil said:

Electric cars, classics or otherwise, are all about matching the vehicle to the owner's requirements. I commute to work and go home for lunch, 4 journeys, total mileage approx 11 miles. An electric car would be ideal for me. Something like the aforementioned Triumph Dolomite with say a 60bhp motor attached to the existing gearbox would do me nicely. For my mileage only a relatively small battery pack would be needed.

[Peter3442]

Classic cars is all about us enjoying ourselves, having fun. It has little to do with economics (apart from some speculators). On that basis, it's up to the individual. We can talk about 'drawing a line', but it's a line for ourselves, not others, to protect us from doing something that we may regret later. If EV conversion helps to support the movement and keeps cars alive that might otherwise be lost, though it may not be my cup of tea, I'll not condemn it.

In ideal world, I'd like to be able to modify a classic car, in what I consider a reasonable way, without fear of it losing its identity or historic status. However, the DVLA change their rules every so long and as, as we've seen in another thread, sometimes apply them arbitrarily and retrospectively.

[singlecoil]

Peter3442 said:

Classic cars is all about us enjoying ourselves, having fun. It has little to do with economics (apart from some speculators). On that basis, it's up to the individual. We can talk about 'drawing a line', but it's a line for ourselves, not others, to protect us from doing something that we may regret later. If EV conversion helps to support the movement and keeps cars alive that might otherwise be lost, though it may not be my cup of tea, I'll not condemn it.

Well, it's good to see that somebody else gets it

[alfaspecial]

singlecoil said:

alfaspecial said:

stuff, including irrelevant stuff about cars that could not pass an IVA

I knew you hadn't read it

singlecoil said:

Electric cars, classics or otherwise, are all about matching the vehicle to the owner's requirements. I commute to work and go home for lunch, 4 journeys, total mileage approx 11 miles. An electric car would be ideal for me. Something like the aforementioned Triumph Dolomite with say a 60bhp motor attached to the existing gearbox would do me nicely. For my mileage only a relatively small battery pack would be needed.

Ahhh now I see where you are coming from. I was arguing from a more generalist perspective, rather than
"This is what I want, sod the rest of you I'm alright, Jack" Only joking.


At the weekend we went the Classic Retro Festival at Gloucester, 120 miles round trip possibly one half of one tank of fuel. Over 10 times your range requirement.


Out of interest, from the link you posted https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/shop/ how much would it cost to convert 'your' Triumph Dolomite? 60hp 11miles.
Using the 'cheapest' options from each page (and there are one hell of a lot of 'incidental' expenses), I recon it would cost you £10k? Thats a lot of petrol.
IVA alone can cost £450.

And I've got repeat. Convert a car now and you'll get away with not having a IVA. After the first court case of a 'homebuilt' converted EV classic those costs are only going one way. UP!

[singlecoil]

alfaspecial said:

Ahhh now I see where you are coming from. I was arguing from a more generalist perspective, rather than
"This is what I want, sod the rest of you I'm alright, Jack" Only joking.


At the weekend we went the Classic Retro Festival at Gloucester, 120 miles round trip possibly one half of one tank of fuel. Over 10 times your range requirement.


Out of interest, from the link you posted https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/shop/ how much would it cost to convert 'your' Triumph Dolomite? 60hp 11miles.
Using the 'cheapest' options from each page (and there are one hell of a lot of 'incidental' expenses), I recon it would cost you £10k? Thats a lot of petrol.
IVA alone can cost £450.

And I've got repeat. Convert a car now and you'll get away with not having a IVA. After the first court case of a 'homebuilt' converted EV classic those costs are only going one way. UP!

You seem obsessed with the cost. I'm not. I have therefore nothing to say to you on the subject of the cost because of our different attitudes, it would be like you trying to explain to me why it's ok to have a tattoo.

You also keep objecting to my pipe dream (which it will have to remain for the time being, I'm far too busy with my business) on the basis of crashes and court cases. Stop worrying about it, it isn't going to happen. If there's a crash it will be dealt with by the insurance companies and possibly the NHS.

[alfaspecial]

singlecoil said:

You seem obsessed with the cost. I'm not. I have therefore nothing to say to you on the subject of the cost because of our different attitudes, it would be like you trying to explain to me why it's ok to have a tattoo.

You also keep objecting to my pipe dream (which it will have to remain for the time being, I'm far too busy with my business) on the basis of crashes and court cases. Stop worrying about it, it isn't going to happen. If there's a crash it will be dealt with by the insurance companies and possibly the NHS.

Well, we've been wasting each others time. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
You are arguing in favour of a (your) mere pipe dream. And I presume you are not (given your business commitments) in any position to do anything about it. (even provide a costing).
My 'pipe dream' has been already realised. And I'm not over happy that the direction of travel of legislation would make it impossible to construct my car now - let alone convert it to EV. I do just a couple of thousand miles a year, so emissions considerations etc are pretty irrelevant.


I've been arguing the more general point that it isn't easy / affordable / viable realistic to convert classic cars to EV power. And that legislation will inevitably make such conversions even harder.

[bigdog3]

Tesla has suffered several "thermal events" which dropped their share prices. What chance has the home modifier?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czW495NMFPw

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/868374/T...

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/tesla-fires-weeks-...

[nickphuket]

I suppose it all depends on your planned use and desire for originality. I personally don't like the idea of my TR4 sounding like a milk float, but if thats the only way to keep the shape/ dynamics of the original, apart from just parking it and looking at it, then I suppose thats the way it will have to be.
I think I will keep the original petrol and overdrive and hope I expire before things get to that point and my car becomes a mere shadow replica of the original.

[singlecoil]

alfaspecial said:

singlecoil said:

You seem obsessed with the cost. I'm not. I have therefore nothing to say to you on the subject of the cost because of our different attitudes, it would be like you trying to explain to me why it's ok to have a tattoo.

You also keep objecting to my pipe dream (which it will have to remain for the time being, I'm far too busy with my business) on the basis of crashes and court cases. Stop worrying about it, it isn't going to happen. If there's a crash it will be dealt with by the insurance companies and possibly the NHS.

Well, we've been wasting each others time. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
You are arguing in favour of a (your) mere pipe dream. And I presume you are not (given your business commitments) in any position to do anything about it. (even provide a costing)...

I don't think my time has been wasted.

I haven't ruled out getting someone else to do the conversion for me, years ago I always thought in terms of doing everything myself but I've got more sense now (and more money).

I've been looking to see if there's any suitable cars on the market but haven't found anything yet. Then I would have to solve the garaging problem, my own garage is too full of stuff that's too valuable (to me) to get rid of but which I don't have room for anywhere else. Still, if I find the right car I could probably sort something out.