Time to stop plugging classics as investments?

[anonymous-user]

I think the under-£50k market is still buoyant - a lot more people have that sort of money and are willing to pay for good examples.

What I'm seeing is ridiculous cars being tipped - by the people selling them - as 'investments' such as, and this isn't for artistic licence one I genuinely saw - a Rover 25 1.4 expression with 16,000 miles on the clock...it may be the same colour as fine wine, but it's no investment...

Then there people overpricing tat. I saw a rough Ferrari 360 Modena which was an ex hire car and track car. It was well serviced and mechanically seemed spot on, but the interior was a mess. Everything had tape on it, mismatch tyres, 3 bald, and a cracked windscreen. Nasty scratches and a deep dent. 80k miles. Still wearing a £50k price tag. Whereas the same money would get you into a decent one.

Things are silly out there but I think people want to cash into things that have in the past and they don't want to miss out, again.

[999gsi]

JohnGBUK said:

I wished I had bought a Sierra Cosworth (Sapphire shape) a few years ago when they were going for sub 5K. How did I miss than buying opportunity?

I know exactly what you mean. Back in 1992 I looked at 2,3dr Cosworth with a view to buying one. I was a police officer at time and despite only being 20 the insurance wasn’t too bad. They were both up at £3995 and in immaculate condition. Eventually my head won, the risk of owning one was too high so I bought a 16v Astra gte instead....

I’m now in a position to buy a Cosworth / Lotus Carlton but I’m not prepared to pay £40k and upwards for one. I wonder if the prices will drop down to a more affordable level. I have been watching them for a while and they don’t seem to be selling very quickly,Do you think owners have an unrealistic idea as to how much their cars are actually worth?

[lowdrag]

Most people see some cars selling at inflated figures and in a way naturally think that their's is worth that. But the car that sold may have been subject to a no-expense-spared rebuild, and their's not. And prices are falling, like it or not. Keep an eye on a dealership or two and you'll see the same stock time and again. We are living in interesting times.

Edited by lowdrag on Sunday 29th September 12:37

[Welshbeef]

Chris Evans was a pretty smart cookie then offloading all of his cars a number of years ago. Which at the time seemed an unusual choice to make.

[LotusOmega375D]

Not that smart though: he seriously devalued most of them by bizarrely having them resprayed white.

[ettore]

Welshbeef said:

Chris Evans was a pretty smart cookie then offloading all of his cars a number of years ago. Which at the time seemed an unusual choice to make.

He’s continued to trade since, just moves through cars quickly - suspect has fine very well..

[anonymous-user]

Classic car shows have never been more popular in most cases, a lot you have to be pre-book now. Classic car prices were going up to ridiculous levels, it had to come to an end at some point, add in the uncertainty over Brexit and it's no great shock that prices have dropped off a bit but as my opening line says interest has never been more popular.
It's not the end more like a bit of reality has kicked in.

[Escort3500]

lowdrag said:

In 1989 my car was worth £25,000. In 1991 it was £75,000, and in 1992 £25,000 once again! I really don't care since it has been my car for over 30 years and to hell with the final value when I am no more. Last year I was offered £250,000, this year it is worth, again if I am lucky, half that. I haven't lost a penny myself, because it wasn't for sale then nor is it for sale today. I still love going out to the garage to look at it even if, at my age, I don't drive it as much as before. It has too many memories.

This is exactly what it’s all about for me.

[lowdrag]

ettore said:

Welshbeef said:

Chris Evans was a pretty smart cookie then offloading all of his cars a number of years ago. Which at the time seemed an unusual choice to make.

He’s continued to trade since, just moves through cars quickly - suspect has fine very well..

About eight years back he spent ages looking for an XKSS but couldn't find ones so it was suggested that my Lynx XKSS might be an option but I refused to sell, so he went out and bought another Lynx XKSS for nearly £400,000 at auction. He kept it one year, did less than 250 miles in it, and sold it at a loss.

[ToneyCaroney]

LotusOmega375D said:

aeropilot said:

True.

However, if my example is anything to go by, not the whole story.

When I bought my current place 27 years ago, you had to save for a 20% deposit as 80% mortgage was max you could get, but my property was back then 4 x times what my annual salary was.
Today, I'm just about to put that property up for sale, and if someone was trying to buy now it at the same age as I was then, doing the same job as I was doing back then etc., it would now be about 8 x times their annual salary.

Yes but your monthly mortgage repayments back then would have been almost double what they are today, so it’s swings and roundabouts.

Its not though because the maximum you can borrow is around 5x annual salary and so to the average earner that house is unattainable regardless of interest rate. And yes, the arse is clearly dropping out of the old car market and continued talk of investment opportunities is frankly a bit boring.

[ettore]

lowdrag said:

ettore said:

Welshbeef said:

Chris Evans was a pretty smart cookie then offloading all of his cars a number of years ago. Which at the time seemed an unusual choice to make.

He’s continued to trade since, just moves through cars quickly - suspect has fine very well..

About eight years back he spent ages looking for an XKSS but couldn't find ones so it was suggested that my Lynx XKSS might be an option but I refused to sell, so he went out and bought another Lynx XKSS for nearly £400,000 at auction. He kept it one year, did less than 250 miles in it, and sold it at a loss.

Has done well on ‘big’ Ferrari’s and Aston’s in a rising market. Not sure what he’s holding currently though.

[Welshbeef]

ettore said:

Has done well on ‘big’ Ferrari’s and Aston’s in a rising market. Not sure what he’s holding currently though.

He did so much on R2 with the super 7 and amazing 5 super cars so 8-9m listeners got the joy of hearing these amazing cars.
Arguably it also stirred people emotions to maybe want one themselves.

Oddly it then changed to running marathons.... which whilst I get some people think is great fun doesn’t come close to driving legendary classic cars worth millions and millions.

Did the Beeb force him to change?
He very quickly after R2 stopped doing that sold his entire fleet.




Jay K having what 30-40 vehicles in his fleet must be feeling some theoretic losses, then again I doubt he has any need or desire to sell

[CubanPete]

ToneyCaroney said:

LotusOmega375D said:

aeropilot said:

True.

However, if my example is anything to go by, not the whole story.

When I bought my current place 27 years ago, you had to save for a 20% deposit as 80% mortgage was max you could get, but my property was back then 4 x times what my annual salary was.
Today, I'm just about to put that property up for sale, and if someone was trying to buy now it at the same age as I was then, doing the same job as I was doing back then etc., it would now be about 8 x times their annual salary.

Yes but your monthly mortgage repayments back then would have been almost double what they are today, so it’s swings and roundabouts.

Its not though because the maximum you can borrow is around 5x annual salary and so to the average earner that house is unattainable regardless of interest rate. And yes, the arse is clearly dropping out of the old car market and continued talk of investment opportunities is frankly a bit boring.

Yes and no, a 5x combined salary mortgage, which is what it would be based on today, would make it really quite affordable for a couple in comparible roles.

[CubanPete]

Having driven my mates e-type, it was fun, but wasn't a dream, beautiful cars - though I'd either go pre war or late 80s 90s rally - you can probably guess my age to within a couple of years from this!

[Yertis]

CubanPete said:

Having driven my mates e-type, it was fun, but wasn't a dream, beautiful cars - though I'd either go pre war or late 80s 90s rally - you can probably guess my age to within a couple of years from this!

I own an eighties rally car. Not actually a rally car, like isimmo's but one known for being a rally car. I drive it quite often and while it's a lovely to drive and satisfying in lots of ways, it's certainly not fun in the way the TR6 is. In other words you have to be going quite stupidly fast before it gets exciting. I find even starting the TR is moderately exciting, insofar there's always a will it / won't it dimension. Mind you I have that on the Quattro too, with the added fun of knowing that if it won't start, a) I probably can't fix it, and so b) get it fixed will be expensive, take ages, and be a total ball-ache.

[aeropilot]

CubanPete said:

Having driven my mates e-type, it was fun, but wasn't a dream, beautiful cars - though I'd either go pre war or late 80s 90s rally - you can probably guess my age to within a couple of years from this!

Pre-war would be the sensible choice these days.

Blacksmith engineering, of which there still seems to be enough interest in to keep going into the future, plus as motoring becomes ever more marginalised by the eco-warriors and politicians interest in pre-war cars will still be seen as something madly daft and somewhat harmless......

Hopefully.....

[neutral 3]

999gsi said:

I know exactly what you mean. Back in 1992 I looked at 2,3dr Cosworth with a view to buying one. I was a police officer at time and despite only being 20 the insurance wasn’t too bad. They were both up at £3995 and in immaculate condition. Eventually my head won, the risk of owning one was too high so I bought a 16v Astra gte instead....

I’m now in a position to buy a Cosworth / Lotus Carlton but I’m not prepared to pay £40k and upwards for one. I wonder if the prices will drop down to a more affordable level. I have been watching them for a while and they don’t seem to be selling very quickly,Do you think owners have an unrealistic idea as to how much their cars are actually worth?

Nice story!

Cash is king ATM, so those £40k Lotus Carltons could probably be bought for a lot £ less, so why not make an offer ?

[wl606]

aeropilot said:

CubanPete said:

Having driven my mates e-type, it was fun, but wasn't a dream, beautiful cars - though I'd either go pre war or late 80s 90s rally - you can probably guess my age to within a couple of years from this!

Pre-war would be the sensible choice these days.

Blacksmith engineering, of which there still seems to be enough interest in to keep going into the future, plus as motoring becomes ever more marginalised by the eco-warriors and politicians interest in pre-war cars will still be seen as something madly daft and somewhat harmless......

Hopefully.....

Last VSCC race was cancelled due to lack of interest, and the one at Brands Hatch had a less than inspiring entry list. Can't see buying a pre-war car being a sure-fire way to make money.

[LarJammer]

ettore said:

lowdrag said:

ettore said:

Welshbeef said:

Chris Evans was a pretty smart cookie then offloading all of his cars a number of years ago. Which at the time seemed an unusual choice to make.

He’s continued to trade since, just moves through cars quickly - suspect has fine very well..

About eight years back he spent ages looking for an XKSS but couldn't find ones so it was suggested that my Lynx XKSS might be an option but I refused to sell, so he went out and bought another Lynx XKSS for nearly £400,000 at auction. He kept it one year, did less than 250 miles in it, and sold it at a loss.

Has done well on ‘big’ Ferrari’s and Aston’s in a rising market. Not sure what he’s holding currently though.

He's not really done well, having lost £4.5m on a single car....
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/chris-ev...

[aeropilot]

wl606 said:

aeropilot said:

CubanPete said:

Having driven my mates e-type, it was fun, but wasn't a dream, beautiful cars - though I'd either go pre war or late 80s 90s rally - you can probably guess my age to within a couple of years from this!

Pre-war would be the sensible choice these days.

Blacksmith engineering, of which there still seems to be enough interest in to keep going into the future, plus as motoring becomes ever more marginalised by the eco-warriors and politicians interest in pre-war cars will still be seen as something madly daft and somewhat harmless......

Hopefully.....

Last VSCC race was cancelled due to lack of interest, and the one at Brands Hatch had a less than inspiring entry list. Can't see buying a pre-war car being a sure-fire way to make money.

Where did I write anything about making money, or mention racing?