Morris Marina - was it really that bad?
Discussion
2xChevrons said:
All Japanese cars prior to approx. the mid-80s were champions in the rusting stakes. Datsuns frequently rusted out before their first MoT and the original Honda Civic was the first car to be recalled for rust problems by the US DoT. Even by the low standards of the time they were appalling.
Frankly it's amazing the Japanese makers (Datsun especially) survived in the UK. It's probably only because our factories were on strike most of the time so British cars had waiting lists that they got away with it. Oh, and that Russian "steel" that infected much of European production - except Volvo who ironically used British or Swedish steel and cared for the quality of ingredients.I don't think the 70's was a good time to buy a car but at least we weren't American...
CDP said:
Frankly it's amazing the Japanese makers (Datsun especially) survived in the UK. It's probably only because our factories were on strike most of the time so British cars had waiting lists that they got away with it.
I think it's more that apart from the fact they fizzed away into nothing within three years (that minor quirk...) they were resolutely reliable and, as has been recounted already, almost universally blessed with sweet-running and durable engines, slick and accurate gearchanges, light and smooth clutches and low-effort, accurate, well-judged steering. Even if a 100A Cherry, a MK1 Civic or a Mazda 616 weren't sporty or exciting in any way, they were easy and pleasant to drive. And they were metronomically reliable and tender to be well equipped for their price. And they were available with little to no waiting list. And the dealers (often ex-BL ones after there was a big thin-out following nationalisation) tended to go the extra mile, partly because they had to since they were fighting from outside the established players but also they actually believed in the worth of what they were selling. The Datsun Cherry - which was an awkward-looking hunchback of a car with serious ferrous oxide tendencies, had the highest customer satisfaction rating of any car on sale in the UK in the mid-70s - 73% IIRC. We liked it so much in the UK that when Nissan began making the F-II Cherry they held off introducing it here for several years because the original was still so popular.
If I just wanted family transport in the 70s I would probably have gone for a reliable, refined and well-equipped 120Y Sunny over a Marina with a clanky B-Series, lever arm dampers, a rattly dashboard, a juddery clutch, a crunchy gearbox with chattering idler gears, heavy steering with insufficient self-centring effect, wipers fitted the wrong way round and without a heated rear window or a cigarette lighter.
The 120Y was an ugly car and I had the misfortune to be ferried 75 miles in the back of one, which nearly crippled me. I was not looking forward to the return journey. My father's 1967 Cortina GT was far better.
My father did make the leap to a Japanese car in 1976 and bought a 1975 Corolla 30 Estate. Now that really was a revelation, a huge advance on the Cortina in terms of driving comfort, instruments and quality. He swopped that for a new 1978 Cressida in banana yellow, the following year before buying a Princess 2200 HLS which was a pretty good car, in fairness.
My father did make the leap to a Japanese car in 1976 and bought a 1975 Corolla 30 Estate. Now that really was a revelation, a huge advance on the Cortina in terms of driving comfort, instruments and quality. He swopped that for a new 1978 Cressida in banana yellow, the following year before buying a Princess 2200 HLS which was a pretty good car, in fairness.
2xChevrons said:
CDP said:
Frankly it's amazing the Japanese makers (Datsun especially) survived in the UK. It's probably only because our factories were on strike most of the time so British cars had waiting lists that they got away with it.
I think it's more that apart from the fact they fizzed away into nothing within three years (that minor quirk...) they were resolutely reliable and, as has been recounted already, almost universally blessed with sweet-running and durable engines, slick and accurate gearchanges, light and smooth clutches and low-effort, accurate, well-judged steering. Even if a 100A Cherry, a MK1 Civic or a Mazda 616 weren't sporty or exciting in any way, they were easy and pleasant to drive. And they were metronomically reliable and tender to be well equipped for their price. And they were available with little to no waiting list. And the dealers (often ex-BL ones after there was a big thin-out following nationalisation) tended to go the extra mile, partly because they had to since they were fighting from outside the established players but also they actually believed in the worth of what they were selling. The Datsun Cherry - which was an awkward-looking hunchback of a car with serious ferrous oxide tendencies, had the highest customer satisfaction rating of any car on sale in the UK in the mid-70s - 73% IIRC. We liked it so much in the UK that when Nissan began making the F-II Cherry they held off introducing it here for several years because the original was still so popular.
If I just wanted family transport in the 70s I would probably have gone for a reliable, refined and well-equipped 120Y Sunny over a Marina with a clanky B-Series, lever arm dampers, a rattly dashboard, a juddery clutch, a crunchy gearbox with chattering idler gears, heavy steering with insufficient self-centring effect, wipers fitted the wrong way round and without a heated rear window or a cigarette lighter.
CDP said:
Yes but when your three year old 120Y is nothing but a pile of glass, plastics and brown powder would you have ever wanted to buy another?
Clearly lots of people did. And I can see appeal in something that is reliable, well-equipped and well-made that will last three years over something unreliable, badly-equipped and shoddily made that would last seven. Buying a new Datsun on HP every three years would probably be less of a chore. It's like the adage about how Land Rovers are durable but unreliable, so they go on not working properly for decades, while a Hilux or an L200 will put in seven years of arduous graft without missing a beat then something expensive will break so you throw it away and buy another one. A lot of people - especially commercial operators - prefer the predictability of the latter over the mechanical Chinese Water Torture of the former.
It's not as if a non-Japanese mainstream car of the time was some hewn-from-solid masterpiece of durability. They all rusted, but only the Japanese were reliable while they did it.
2xChevrons said:
If I just wanted family transport in the 70s I would probably have gone for a reliable, refined and well-equipped 120Y Sunny over a Marina with a clanky B-Series, lever arm dampers, a rattly dashboard, a juddery clutch, a crunchy gearbox with chattering idler gears, heavy steering with insufficient self-centring effect, wipers fitted the wrong way round and without a heated rear window or a cigarette lighter.
Did you actually have one? As I said, my dad bout a 73 1.8 Marina exactly because it would be a reliable low cost family car. His then my 78 Marina was a 1.3, so A Series. The clutch was a bit awkward when reversing, that's all, steering was fine, certainly no issues with it centering, gearchange was a long throw, but not difficult. Lots of cars had the wipers like that, and my cigarette lighter and rear screen heater worked fine. It was more solidly built than a friend's Escort - doors closed with a clunk not a clang. Slow and old fashioned, but I spent little on it in nearly 3 years, sold it at 6.5 years, still in good condition. One of the differences with 70s cars compared to now is the need for maintenance. And if you didn't do it, they deteriorated much more than they would today. Rust was a given, but for some the rate was so bad the impact on resale values was a big issue. Remember then inflation had a much bigger impact on buying a new(er) car. I don't think Datsun would've been considered a possible until they changed to Nissan in the 80s and earned themselves a name for reliability and longevity.
Oh and why get in the back of a Marina on 'evenings out' when there was so much room in the front?
Sticks. said:
2xChevrons said:
If I just wanted family transport in the 70s I would probably have gone for a reliable, refined and well-equipped 120Y Sunny over a Marina with a clanky B-Series, lever arm dampers, a rattly dashboard, a juddery clutch, a crunchy gearbox with chattering idler gears, heavy steering with insufficient self-centring effect, wipers fitted the wrong way round and without a heated rear window or a cigarette lighter.
Did you actually have one? As I said, my dad bout a 73 1.8 Marina exactly because it would be a reliable low cost family car. His then my 78 Marina was a 1.3, so A Series. The clutch was a bit awkward when reversing, that's all, steering was fine, certainly no issues with it centering, gearchange was a long throw, but not difficult. Lots of cars had the wipers like that, and my cigarette lighter and rear screen heater worked fine. It was more solidly built than a friend's Escort - doors closed with a clunk not a clang. Slow and old fashioned, but I spent little on it in nearly 3 years, sold it at 6.5 years, still in good condition. One of the differences with 70s cars compared to now is the need for maintenance. And if you didn't do it, they deteriorated much more than they would today. Rust was a given, but for some the rate was so bad the impact on resale values was a big issue. Remember then inflation had a much bigger impact on buying a new(er) car. I don't think Datsun would've been considered a possible until they changed to Nissan in the 80s and earned themselves a name for reliability and longevity.
Oh and why get in the back of a Marina on 'evenings out' when there was so much room in the front?
People often forget that the 70s was only 25-30 years after the war and there were still massive swathes of people who refused to buy German, Italian or Japanese cars.
It wasn't even an option for many people.
Our street in the 70s was full of British cars and the odd Renault and a Moskvich.
It wasn't even an option for many people.
Our street in the 70s was full of British cars and the odd Renault and a Moskvich.
LuS1fer said:
People often forget that the 70s was only 25-30 years after the war and there were still massive swathes of people who refused to buy German, Italian or Japanese cars.
Indeed.One of my uncles fought the Japanese as a 19 year old in the PTO, and utterly refused to buy anything made in Japan for the rest of his life. All through the 60's and into the 80's and beyond during the mass invasion of Japanese cars, audio and camera, and other tech products, he would insist on buying the alternatives from the rest of the world, even if that meant paying more or waiting longer for it.
LuS1fer said:
People often forget that the 70s was only 25-30 years after the war and there were still massive swathes of people who refused to buy German, Italian or Japanese cars.
It wasn't even an option for many people.
Our street in the 70s was full of British cars and the odd Renault and a Moskvich.
That's true. I can't imagine my Grandfather ever buying something by Bosch lol. Iirc spares prices were higher too, and even I was able to set up the points, timing and carb on an A Series with very little kit. It wasn't even an option for many people.
Our street in the 70s was full of British cars and the odd Renault and a Moskvich.
CDP said:
Worse than 2001 Mercedes, at least they managed to fend off the decay until after the first MOT and most owners had probably traded up by then.
Nah, I'm sure we'd had a new tail gate before then.The difference was that there was no quibbling. The local dealer just "owned the problem", we never had to fight for any replacements.
a8hex said:
CDP said:
Worse than 2001 Mercedes, at least they managed to fend off the decay until after the first MOT and most owners had probably traded up by then.
Nah, I'm sure we'd had a new tail gate before then.The difference was that there was no quibbling. The local dealer just "owned the problem", we never had to fight for any replacements.
I very seriously considered a C220D on the basis of that warranty thinking it made the price worth it. The way the foot operated parking brake didn't really work with manual transmission is what put me off.
Looking back through all the cars I've owned, reflecting on my foolish younger days when I could afford virtually anything - and did buy it - I now, in my mellow years think that one of my best ever cars was a Honda Accord 2.2 4wheel steering. Everything worked as it should, the air conditioning (standard) was amazing, the stereo (built in so theft-proof) and like all Japanese cars it was reliable, more so than any other car that I had owned up to then. I bought it because of its anonymity, having replaced three sets of badges. two side windows and two stereos on the 325i, and admit to a stupid moment selling it on and buying something German - again. But it was a car that probably would have gone round the clock twice and never complained. The other car I didn't buy and should have, offered second hand at a ridiculous price, was a Honda Legend. Now there was a car for Golf money.
CDP said:
I didn't think it was quite that fast. I'm glad you had a good dealer, some had to fight for repairs despite the 30 year warranty.
I very seriously considered a C220D on the basis of that warranty thinking it made the price worth it. The way the foot operated parking brake didn't really work with manual transmission is what put me off.
SWMBO had a 320CDi which was an auto, I can't imagine how the foot operated parking brake would work on a manual either, but it was fine on an auto and I don't think I ever hit it looking for the headlight dip which should be there on a real car.I very seriously considered a C220D on the basis of that warranty thinking it made the price worth it. The way the foot operated parking brake didn't really work with manual transmission is what put me off.
We never had any hassle over body work repairs, eventually the dealer farmed the work out to another company, we'd ring the dealer and they'd just say take it to ... can't remember their name. We'd take it up there and their bod would come and look over the car and go "that panel's shot, and that door skin, and that..." I think we had three new tail gates over the 10 or so years we had the car. It would have been due for another round of new panels when we decided it was time to move on. It was traded for another Merc although not new this time. This one hasn't rusted in the body work dept. but the rear subframe has just been replaced, again on warrantee, it was in for a service when they spotted the issue. The dealer phoned to let us let us know, but it was a case of "there's a problem with the car, ...., but you've got the extended warrantee so don't worry that's covered". You can forgive a lot more when it's handled right and the problem doesn't land in your own lap.
Here in France every taxi was a Mercedes in 2000. Then the new C-Class came out and in quite a quick time all the taxis were Skodas. And still are. But in 28 years I am on my fourth Mercedes, starting with a W124 230E, 4-yrs old and 12,000, then selling it in 2001 when I moved to France, then a LHD S203 C220CDi for 12 years, bought new in 2001, an old model remaindered for £17,000 and which cost me £2,000 in repairs in 300,000 kms, then a used C200 S200 CDi, a Mercedes fleet car, which madam still has with 157,000 kms on the clock, and I bought an identical 2014 car from Germany (much cheaper than France) which has done few miles in 18 months due to Covid. But these last two S204 cars have not cost one cent in repairs. and in 28 years I have spent less than £5,000 on my Mercedes. Well, excluding dinged wheels and a new grill that a dive-bombing seagull took out. Even that grille was only £150 and I replace it myself. The Accord is no more here in Europe or I might have gone for that if it was in my price range.
When I was a young lad the company that I worked for paid for my driving lessons and when I passed my test they let me take a van to take home at night, it was a brand new Marina 1.3 and as a small van it was as good as any. One journey that stands out was on Christmas Eve after leaving the pub with a load of mates in the back and all full of Christmas spirit. I was at some trafiic lights in a queue waiting to turn right and I went through just as they turned to red not noticing that a police car was nearby, a few hundred yards later I was pulled over and the officer came over as I wound down the window to let the fumes out he then had a look inside shaking his head he asked how far I was going and I replied just a mile his response was "get off home then, it's Christmas".
Within a year I was able to order my first company car, all of our fleet came from BL and I had to have a vehicle that could by used to make light deliveries so had to be an estate or similar and the only choices in my budget were either a Maxi 1750 or a Marina 1.8 Estate, I chose the Marina it was mid blue with cream seats and tan carpets and being my first new car it has good place in my memory and I still remember the reg HJH 908N. The good thing about having the only estate in my branch office was that my branch manager who had Stag would sometimes swap cars at the weekend when he needed a load lugger.
Marinas weren't bad cars and from memory were more stable at motorway speeds and handled better than equivalent Mk3 Cortinas.
Within a year I was able to order my first company car, all of our fleet came from BL and I had to have a vehicle that could by used to make light deliveries so had to be an estate or similar and the only choices in my budget were either a Maxi 1750 or a Marina 1.8 Estate, I chose the Marina it was mid blue with cream seats and tan carpets and being my first new car it has good place in my memory and I still remember the reg HJH 908N. The good thing about having the only estate in my branch office was that my branch manager who had Stag would sometimes swap cars at the weekend when he needed a load lugger.
Marinas weren't bad cars and from memory were more stable at motorway speeds and handled better than equivalent Mk3 Cortinas.
a8hex said:
SWMBO had a 320CDi which was an auto, I can't imagine how the foot operated parking brake would work on a manual either, but it was fine on an auto and I don't think I ever hit it looking for the headlight dip which should be there on a real car.
It would have been fine on the automatic but with the manual it really wasn't good. Especially if you had to stop briefly at uphill traffic lights.Such a shame as with the smallest (steel) wheels and standard suspension the ride was excellent and it cornered nicely. The interior was comfortable if a little cheaply finished. The engine very economical and reasonably quiet.
CDP said:
a8hex said:
SWMBO had a 320CDi which was an auto, I can't imagine how the foot operated parking brake would work on a manual either, but it was fine on an auto and I don't think I ever hit it looking for the headlight dip which should be there on a real car.
It would have been fine on the automatic but with the manual it really wasn't good. Especially if you had to stop briefly at uphill traffic lights.CDP said:
Such a shame as with the smallest (steel) wheels and standard suspension the ride was excellent and it cornered nicely. The interior was comfortable if a little cheaply finished. The engine very economical and reasonably quiet.
Hers was in Elegance trim with the standard sized wheel that entailed, so it rode well, much better than a friend's who had one with bigger wheels. The interior was quite nice, the "comfort seats" were pretty good. The cornering was good, it didn't really encourage you to throw it around but it was extremely competent. Sort of like saying "I don't do that" but once you committed to the corner "of course I can do that - if you insist". I liked it on the whole, it just wasn't as well accomplished as my X300 
and contrary to what everyone says, the Merc was nowhere near as reliable as the Jag either. But it was bought for a different job and it was very good at that.Lowdrag was commenting on French taxis being Merc prior to 2000. I seem to remember the German taxis drivers organised a big protest rally outside the MB's plant about the quality issues with the W210. They weren't happy.
But while we had loads of issues (I hardly ever washed it in the first three years as the dealer would valet it on every visit), the dealer kept on top of everything and we were happy to replace it with a later model when the time came.
I was given a marina once. 1300 saloon 4 door. It had been rear ended and written off and cluttering up someones garage. Dragged it home and got it running (only a stuck float). Beat out the rear and threw some hammerite on the back end. From the c pillar forward if was tidy. Still had some mot left on it so I thrashed it around for 6 months or so, including taking the rear seats out and using it to transport a rockery. Used nearly as much oil as petrol. Quite fun on single track roads not slowing down for tourists and diving into the hedge at the last minute .
Mot'd it and sold it for enough to cover all my costs.
Fond memories really.
.Mot'd it and sold it for enough to cover all my costs.
Fond memories really.
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