Morris Marina - was it really that bad?
Discussion
Ok, so a scenario for you:
Its 1975. You are a fleet manager, needing to get half a dozen cars for your sales reps, selling thingymajigs from the boot.
You have sales managers.
You have senior staff.
What do you go for? Resale, dependabilty is important, but so it aceess (no, you cant wait 6 months for a new alfasud), and the BMW 02 range is too expensive and flash. They need to last for full 3 years, so cant rust. BL are offering "supercover" as a warranty.
Your buyers are a bit suspicious of the new japanese cars, and "buy british" is a strong, bot not overarching influence.
What do you buy??
Marina, Marina TC and Princess or???
Its 1975. You are a fleet manager, needing to get half a dozen cars for your sales reps, selling thingymajigs from the boot.
You have sales managers.
You have senior staff.
What do you go for? Resale, dependabilty is important, but so it aceess (no, you cant wait 6 months for a new alfasud), and the BMW 02 range is too expensive and flash. They need to last for full 3 years, so cant rust. BL are offering "supercover" as a warranty.
Your buyers are a bit suspicious of the new japanese cars, and "buy british" is a strong, bot not overarching influence.
What do you buy??
Marina, Marina TC and Princess or???
williamp said:
Ok, so a scenario for you:
Its 1975. You are a fleet manager, needing to get half a dozen cars for your sales reps, selling thingymajigs from the boot.
You have sales managers.
You have senior staff.
What do you go for? Resale, dependabilty is important, but so it aceess (no, you cant wait 6 months for a new alfasud), and the BMW 02 range is too expensive and flash. They need to last for full 3 years, so cant rust. BL are offering "supercover" as a warranty.
Your buyers are a bit suspicious of the new japanese cars, and "buy british" is a strong, bot not overarching influence.
What do you buy??
Marina, Marina TC and Princess or???
A mixture of MK2 Escorts and MK3 Cortinas, or maybe a MK2 Capri for the mavericks - which is what most of them did!Its 1975. You are a fleet manager, needing to get half a dozen cars for your sales reps, selling thingymajigs from the boot.
You have sales managers.
You have senior staff.
What do you go for? Resale, dependabilty is important, but so it aceess (no, you cant wait 6 months for a new alfasud), and the BMW 02 range is too expensive and flash. They need to last for full 3 years, so cant rust. BL are offering "supercover" as a warranty.
Your buyers are a bit suspicious of the new japanese cars, and "buy british" is a strong, bot not overarching influence.
What do you buy??
Marina, Marina TC and Princess or???
Sticks. said:
LuS1fer said:
People often forget that the 70s was only 25-30 years after the war and there were still massive swathes of people who refused to buy German, Italian or Japanese cars.
It wasn't even an option for many people.
Our street in the 70s was full of British cars and the odd Renault and a Moskvich.
That's true. I can't imagine my Grandfather ever buying something by Bosch lol. Iirc spares prices were higher too, and even I was able to set up the points, timing and carb on an A Series with very little kit. It wasn't even an option for many people.
Our street in the 70s was full of British cars and the odd Renault and a Moskvich.
Which was very embarrassing for a senior SS officer.
(Jack Dee).
No offence meant, it's just such a perfectly crafted joke. My grandfather actually had a succession of Triumphs, the yellow Dolomite was my favourite.
underwhelmist said:
Sticks. said:
LuS1fer said:
People often forget that the 70s was only 25-30 years after the war and there were still massive swathes of people who refused to buy German, Italian or Japanese cars.
It wasn't even an option for many people.
Our street in the 70s was full of British cars and the odd Renault and a Moskvich.
That's true. I can't imagine my Grandfather ever buying something by Bosch lol. Iirc spares prices were higher too, and even I was able to set up the points, timing and carb on an A Series with very little kit. It wasn't even an option for many people.
Our street in the 70s was full of British cars and the odd Renault and a Moskvich.
Which was very embarrassing for a senior SS officer.
(Jack Dee).
No offence meant, it's just such a perfectly crafted joke. My grandfather actually had a succession of Triumphs, the yellow Dolomite was my favourite.
He fell out of a tower and the Jews kicked him to death
Mr Tidy said:
A mixture of MK2 Escorts and MK3 Cortinas, or maybe a MK2 Capri for the mavericks - which is what most of them did!
Or Chevettes and Victors - both better to drive , and better made than the BL equivalents. Cortina was fine too - what always impressed me about them was the cabin was a pretty nice place to be , nice dashboard lighting and the heating and ventilation in Fords of that era was always better than most of the rest. As an.undergraduate trainee, my mate had one, his uncle had given him.
I used to occassionally share lifts with him.
In his 1.3 automatic beige coupe. Or mustard, or caramac.
One evening at the M42, A45 Junction, in a slight drizzle, he lost the back end leaving the slip road.
Tried to correct and then suddenly we were heading towards a pedestrian on the pavement.
We were doing about 45 In a 60, we got him.straight in the middle of the bonnet, he hit the screen and was going into the ditch, where the back end of if the marina hut the lamp post and ended up in.the ditch upside down.
Bloke died 4 days later, from.multiple injuries.
I was the only witness.
Both of us were 19, sober, and just goingnhime from.work.
He was late 50s had been dropped off by his mate at the roundabout where he was walking up to the bus stop, to get a bus home to Meriden, which he had done for 15 years.
In the coroner's court the Police crash investigator said, the car was mechanically sound, the couldn't find oil on the road, but that make of car was known to up unpredictable in the wet.
Accidental death was recorded.
At Solihull magistrates court, my mate was found not guilty of driving without due care and attention.
Maybe the magistrates had inside knowledge of how s
t they were.
So thread over. Was the marina really that bad.
Yes.
I used to occassionally share lifts with him.
In his 1.3 automatic beige coupe. Or mustard, or caramac.
One evening at the M42, A45 Junction, in a slight drizzle, he lost the back end leaving the slip road.
Tried to correct and then suddenly we were heading towards a pedestrian on the pavement.
We were doing about 45 In a 60, we got him.straight in the middle of the bonnet, he hit the screen and was going into the ditch, where the back end of if the marina hut the lamp post and ended up in.the ditch upside down.
Bloke died 4 days later, from.multiple injuries.
I was the only witness.
Both of us were 19, sober, and just goingnhime from.work.
He was late 50s had been dropped off by his mate at the roundabout where he was walking up to the bus stop, to get a bus home to Meriden, which he had done for 15 years.
In the coroner's court the Police crash investigator said, the car was mechanically sound, the couldn't find oil on the road, but that make of car was known to up unpredictable in the wet.
Accidental death was recorded.
At Solihull magistrates court, my mate was found not guilty of driving without due care and attention.
Maybe the magistrates had inside knowledge of how s
t they were.So thread over. Was the marina really that bad.
Yes.
coppice said:
Or Chevettes and Victors - both better to drive , and better made than the BL equivalents. Cortina was fine too - what always impressed me about them was the cabin was a pretty nice place to be , nice dashboard lighting and the heating and ventilation in Fords of that era was always better than most of the rest.
The default was pretty much the Cortina Mk III estate and Granada estate. My friend's father was a market trader and the volume of leeks you could fit in the Cortina was enormous.Vauxhalls had two issues - their estates were semi-fastback in Viva and Victor firm, compromising capacity and Vauxhall were still fighting a bad rust reputation they gained in the 50s.
Companies generally bought British and cheap. The Allegro and Chevette estates were generally too small and reps wanted the "prestige" of a bigger car.
People, oddly, didn't trust foreign cars so things like the Citroen DS and Peugeot 504 estates were usually private purchases.
Indeed -my car mad late uncle , a decorated glider pilot on D Day and at Arnhem , put many family noses out of joint by buying European cars exclusively. A Beetle(ten years after he'd been exchanging fire with Germans ) , a lovely Fiat 1500 (or Millecinquecento as it said on the badge) , a Fiat 125 (which made a Marina look like a product out of the dark ages ) and a Renault 16TX ( so far ahead of what we were making it was embarrassing ) . But our dads kept buying mediocre st from BL , often out of a misplaced sense of patriotism .
t from BL , often out of a misplaced sense of patriotism . With advertising like this, how could they fail? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=265yh7UmF0w
coppice said:
Indeed -my car mad late uncle , a decorated glider pilot on D Day and at Arnhem , put many family noses out of joint by buying European cars exclusively. A Beetle(ten years after he'd been exchanging fire with Germans ) , a lovely Fiat 1500 (or Millecinquecento as it said on the badge) , a Fiat 125 (which made a Marina look like a product out of the dark ages ) and a Renault 16TX ( so far ahead of what we were making it was embarrassing ) . But our dads kept buying mediocre st from BL , often out of a misplaced sense of patriotism .
An uncle of mine who'd been in the Desert Rats was very keen on his Mercedes. He had no issue buying other German goods quite soon after the war either.t from BL , often out of a misplaced sense of patriotism . My grandfather in the first world war had nothing against the Germans.
They saw the Germans as other soldiers.
I have heard a few things said about the Japanese being wicked though.
StuntmanMike said:
underwhelmist said:
Sticks. said:
LuS1fer said:
People often forget that the 70s was only 25-30 years after the war and there were still massive swathes of people who refused to buy German, Italian or Japanese cars.
It wasn't even an option for many people.
Our street in the 70s was full of British cars and the odd Renault and a Moskvich.
That's true. I can't imagine my Grandfather ever buying something by Bosch lol. Iirc spares prices were higher too, and even I was able to set up the points, timing and carb on an A Series with very little kit. It wasn't even an option for many people.
Our street in the 70s was full of British cars and the odd Renault and a Moskvich.
Which was very embarrassing for a senior SS officer.
(Jack Dee).
No offence meant, it's just such a perfectly crafted joke. My grandfather actually had a succession of Triumphs, the yellow Dolomite was my favourite.
He fell out of a tower and the Jews kicked him to death
The only Marina I recall being a passenger in was bloody awful, at barely two years old it was a death trap and my Uncle couldn't wait to get shot of it, replacing it with a Triumph 2000.
Edited by P5BNij on Sunday 7th February 12:26
coppice said:
Cortina was fine too - what always impressed me about them was the cabin was a pretty nice place to be , nice dashboard lighting and the heating and ventilation in Fords of that era was always better than most of the rest.
Ford spent a lot getting the cabins right. Plus the model heirarchy was perfect aligned with fleet buyers.Escort => Cortina => Granada.
L => GL = > GXL etc
When I was a kid I used to collect brochures the Ford ones were great - Expensively produced and set up in hierarchical order.
Plus you were never far from a main dealer.
Basically, Ford in that era were great at sales & marketing in the UK. Head and shoulders above the competition.
coppice said:
Mr Tidy said:
A mixture of MK2 Escorts and MK3 Cortinas, or maybe a MK2 Capri for the mavericks - which is what most of them did!
Or Chevettes and Victors - both better to drive , and better made than the BL equivalents" the best ever year for the Marina, with 201,724 being manufactured in the 1972/73 financial year ending 30 September 1973. The Marina finished the year in second place behind the Ford Cortina in the UK sales chart "
https://www.aronline.co.uk/opinion/essay-morris-ma...
williamp said:
Ok, so a scenario for you:
Its 1975. You are a fleet manager, needing to get half a dozen cars for your sales reps, selling thingymajigs from the boot.
You have sales managers.
You have senior staff.
What do you go for?
Best-selling cars 1975Its 1975. You are a fleet manager, needing to get half a dozen cars for your sales reps, selling thingymajigs from the boot.
You have sales managers.
You have senior staff.
What do you go for?
1 Ford Cortina 106,787
2 Ford Escort 103,817
3 BMC Mini 84,688
4 Morris Marina 78,632
5 Austin Allegro 63,339
6 Vauxhall Viva 54,731
7 Hillman Avenger 38,377
8 Triumph Dolomite 30,199
9 Leyland Princess 29,067
10 Hillman Hunter 28,966
Morris Marina - was it really that bad?
Probably, but it outsold a lot of other cars a lot of the time.
CDP said:
I have heard a few things said about the Japanese being wicked though.
Extremely sadistic. They saw POWs as weak, given their kamikazi mentality and death before surrender. Inhuman conditions and forced labour saw thousands die of exhaustion or dysentry.They used torture. One of our teachers, in school, spoke with a pronounced whistle, apparently because the Japanese stuck a red hot poker in the roof of his mouth.
MuscleSedan said:
Best-selling cars 1975
1 Ford Cortina 106,787
2 Ford Escort 103,817
3 BMC Mini 84,688
4 Morris Marina 78,632
5 Austin Allegro 63,339
6 Vauxhall Viva 54,731
7 Hillman Avenger 38,377
8 Triumph Dolomite 30,199
9 Leyland Princess 29,067
10 Hillman Hunter 28,966
Morris Marina - was it really that bad?
Probably, but it outsold a lot of other cars a lot of the time.
This just another case where - in cars as with any number of other things - having the better product doesn't mean you'll top the sales charts. Price, availability, sales network, financial packages, running costs, image, familiarity etc. will all play their part. 1 Ford Cortina 106,787
2 Ford Escort 103,817
3 BMC Mini 84,688
4 Morris Marina 78,632
5 Austin Allegro 63,339
6 Vauxhall Viva 54,731
7 Hillman Avenger 38,377
8 Triumph Dolomite 30,199
9 Leyland Princess 29,067
10 Hillman Hunter 28,966
Morris Marina - was it really that bad?
Probably, but it outsold a lot of other cars a lot of the time.
As a 'sensible conventionally-engineered RWD mid-size fleet/family saloon' the Avenger is probably the best in the engineering and driving stakes. But I don't think Rootes would have been able to build, let alone sell, 100,000 Avengers for the UK market and it didn't have the range of engines and trim levels that Ford did and the Avenger didn't slot into a cohesive model structure like the Escort/Cortina/Granada tree. The Honda Civic or 100A Cherry are much better cars in almost every way than the Mk3 Mini but they didn't have the dealer network or the export volume to sell enough to make it into the top-ten, even if there had been legions of people wanting to buy them over the domestic equivalents.
As I said in my very first post in the this thread, the Marina was a car designed to be 'good enough' in a market segment with incredibly low standards and it (just about) acheived that goal, while going on to live far longer (and make more money) than BL ever intended it to. It's not surprising that lots of people bought a straightforward, spacious, simple car made from familar building blocks with parts available from every high-street motor factor's with a familiar British badge and a decent range of engine and body options.
Still doesn't make a good car though.
MuscleSedan said:
williamp said:
Ok, so a scenario for you:
Its 1975. You are a fleet manager, needing to get half a dozen cars for your sales reps, selling thingymajigs from the boot.
You have sales managers.
You have senior staff.
What do you go for?
Best-selling cars 1975Its 1975. You are a fleet manager, needing to get half a dozen cars for your sales reps, selling thingymajigs from the boot.
You have sales managers.
You have senior staff.
What do you go for?
1 Ford Cortina 106,787
2 Ford Escort 103,817
3 BMC Mini 84,688
4 Morris Marina 78,632
5 Austin Allegro 63,339
6 Vauxhall Viva 54,731
7 Hillman Avenger 38,377
8 Triumph Dolomite 30,199
9 Leyland Princess 29,067
10 Hillman Hunter 28,966
Morris Marina - was it really that bad?
Probably, but it outsold a lot of other cars a lot of the time.
The problem that Rootes had was the Avenger only had a 1600 as biggest engine, and even the next size up Hunter, only had a 1725 as its biggest engine, and that was a problem for the upwardly mobile reps etc., that were looking up the ladder to the middle management Cortina 2000E from their 1600XL etc.
As said, Ford played the fleet progression game very well, and made Ford the default easy choice for fleet managers.
LuS1fer said:
Extremely sadistic. They saw POWs as weak, given their kamikazi mentality and death before surrender. Inhuman conditions and forced labour saw thousands die of exhaustion or dysentry.
They used torture. One of our teachers, in school, spoke with a pronounced whistle, apparently because the Japanese stuck a red hot poker in the roof of his mouth.
I don't think we need any needless 'comments' from the past - on a car forum?They used torture. One of our teachers, in school, spoke with a pronounced whistle, apparently because the Japanese stuck a red hot poker in the roof of his mouth.
Shezbo said:
LuS1fer said:
Extremely sadistic. They saw POWs as weak, given their kamikazi mentality and death before surrender. Inhuman conditions and forced labour saw thousands die of exhaustion or dysentry.
They used torture. One of our teachers, in school, spoke with a pronounced whistle, apparently because the Japanese stuck a red hot poker in the roof of his mouth.
I don't think we need any needless 'comments' from the past - on a car forum?They used torture. One of our teachers, in school, spoke with a pronounced whistle, apparently because the Japanese stuck a red hot poker in the roof of his mouth.
You should learn to show some respect to those people that suffered. Your comment certainly is needless.
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