Morris Marina - was it really that bad?

Morris Marina - was it really that bad?

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Discussion

LuS1fer

37,492 posts

209 months

Tuesday 9th February
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
In terms of BHP, what was the difference between the twin SU 1275cc engine in say an Austin 1300GT, and the 1275cc twin SU engine in a Cooper S?
And what went into the Mini 1275GT?
According to my 1970 Observers Book of Cars -

Cooper S Mk II was 76bhp
Mini 1275GT was 59bhp (single carb)
1300GT/MG 1300 Mk II - 70bhp
Austin Healey/MG Midget 65bhp

For contrast, an Escort 1300GT with a single Weber -75bhp

AC43

8,759 posts

172 months

Tuesday 9th February
quotequote all
LuS1fer said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
In terms of BHP, what was the difference between the twin SU 1275cc engine in say an Austin 1300GT, and the 1275cc twin SU engine in a Cooper S?
And what went into the Mini 1275GT?
According to my 1970 Observers Book of Cars -

Cooper S Mk II was 76bhp
Mini 1275GT was 59bhp (single carb)
1300GT/MG 1300 Mk II - 70bhp
Austin Healey/MG Midget 65bhp

For contrast, an Escort 1300GT with a single Weber -75bhp
The standard 1275GT engine was a real damp squib. I built up a hotter version using a Cooper cam & dizzy, double valve springs & an LCB exhaust. I started with twin SU's and ended up with a single Dellorto.

I've no idea why the factory didn't do something similar (minus the Dellorto) as it was all factory stuff.

For some bizarre reason they want backwards not forwards.

CDP

6,736 posts

218 months

Tuesday 9th February
quotequote all
LuS1fer said:
According to my 1970 Observers Book of Cars -

Cooper S Mk II was 76bhp
Mini 1275GT was 59bhp (single carb)
1300GT/MG 1300 Mk II - 70bhp
Austin Healey/MG Midget 65bhp

For contrast, an Escort 1300GT with a single Weber -75bhp
I suspect on a slightly damp twisty road the 1300GT would have left the Escort for dead.

The engine in my 750MC Locost had was in effect a GT cam, single twin choke downdraft carb. It was fully blueprinted, gas-flowed (within the rules) running oversized pistons (+40 IIRC).

The work was done by Scholar Engineering who are one of the best in the business. On their dyno it made 78.5bhp which is apparently good for this spec so I'd take the 75 for a standard car with a pinch of salt.

Touring442

2,109 posts

173 months

Tuesday 9th February
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
In terms of BHP, what was the difference between the twin SU 1275cc engine in say an Austin 1300GT, and the 1275cc twin SU engine in a Cooper S?
And what went into the Mini 1275GT?
BMC power figures were very random. For example, both the 997 Cooper and 998 Cooper were rated at 55 bhp. The 998 Cooper was markedly faster than the 997 on the same final drive.

1300GT units were 70 bhp and the S was 76, both with the same compression, carbs etc but the S cam (the 510) had a bit more inlet duration. The 1275GT used a standard single carb 1300 unit on a Cooper S close ratio box. Early ones with hydrolastic used the 1300 3.65 final drive, dry ones from mid '71 used the 3.44 'S' diff.

The S engine shared very little with any other 1275 - crank, rods, block, flywheel etc were all different.

Touring442

2,109 posts

173 months

Tuesday 9th February
quotequote all
MXRod said:
I may have got the head configuration mixed up ,but my Kestral definitely had twin SUs ,when I bought it I was told it was a "run out " model ,I seem to remember paying around £750 for it ,ah those were the days
You bought the last of them in 1969 though, by which time the Riley 1300 had the 70 bhp unit.

Touring442

2,109 posts

173 months

Tuesday 9th February
quotequote all
AC43 said:
The standard 1275GT engine was a real damp squib. I built up a hotter version using a Cooper cam & dizzy, double valve springs & an LCB exhaust. I started with twin SU's and ended up with a single Dellorto.

I've no idea why the factory didn't do something similar (minus the Dellorto) as it was all factory stuff.

For some bizarre reason they want backwards not forwards.
Insurance. Bear in mind that the S was almost uninsurable for young drivers because so many were badly driven by reckless youths. They were also easy to steal with a ready market for the parts.

BL Special Tuning did a neat twin carbs/head/exhaust conversion for the GT. The GT also replaced the 998 Cooper, not the 'S'.

AC43

8,759 posts

172 months

Tuesday 9th February
quotequote all
Touring442 said:
AC43 said:
The standard 1275GT engine was a real damp squib. I built up a hotter version using a Cooper cam & dizzy, double valve springs & an LCB exhaust. I started with twin SU's and ended up with a single Dellorto.

I've no idea why the factory didn't do something similar (minus the Dellorto) as it was all factory stuff.

For some bizarre reason they want backwards not forwards.
Insurance. Bear in mind that the S was almost uninsurable for young drivers because so many were badly driven by reckless youths. They were also easy to steal with a ready market for the parts.

BL Special Tuning did a neat twin carbs/head/exhaust conversion for the GT. The GT also replaced the 998 Cooper, not the 'S'.
Fair enough. When mine was done it's straight-line performance was pretty good (for a Mini) and it was pretty easy to max it out But stopping it (on the piddly Cooper discs that came with the 10 inch wheels) was a different manner entirely......

Touring442

2,109 posts

173 months

Tuesday 9th February
quotequote all
The GT had the 7.5 inch S discs with a servo and should have been ok. These went up to 8.4 inches (without a servo) mid 1974 with the 12 inch wheels.

The 7 inch Cooper discs were a bit marginal however.

spanner10

166 posts

11 months

Tuesday 9th February
quotequote all
Touring442 said:
Insurance. Bear in mind that the S was almost uninsurable for young drivers because so many were badly driven by reckless youths. They were also easy to steal with a ready market for the parts.
In 1980 when insurance groups only went up to 8, the 1275 S was group 7 the 1071S and 970S were group 6 and 997/998 group 4 ( same as Midget/Sprite/Spitfire 1300 ) with one large motor insurer.

Insurance Underwriters have long memories it seemed . The 1275 GT was group 4, later 3.

spanner10

166 posts

11 months

Tuesday 9th February
quotequote all
coppice said:
Au contraire , I suggest that something much more nuanced was at work . An Escort GT was a sporty version of the near identical , but slightly slower 1300XL and a less sybaritically appointed GXL - but it was still a Ford Escort. There was a hierarchy of Escorts but something rather weirder at BL , which flogged near identical cars aimed at entirely different markets , sometimes via different dealers .

So , a Riley 1300 - a sporty, well appointed car for the middle class gent who remembered when Rileys were something , if a something his budget wouldn't run to. Damned inflation - my war bonds don't keep up. . But I got the grille which makes my car look completely different from a mere, sniff, Morris.

MG 1300 - check out the stripes , the bright yellow and orange paint options, the racy steering wheel and - sigh - that gurning great MG front end . It's practically a racing car, and I can wave at owners of MG TCs , while listening to Radio 1. I might even subscribe to Safety Fast.

Wolseley 1300 - the epitome of understated luxury , with none of that sporty nonsense . A car for the man who stood ramrod straight for the National Anthem and whose car showed its owner's status and breeding by - gosh !- displaying a little light in the radiator.

Van den Plas 1300 - hard to pigeonhole the ownership demographic other than its monumental levels of self delusion .

Morris/Austin 1300 - to quote the Ronnie Barker /John Cleese sketch - 'I know my place '..
Vanden Plas 1100/1300 - Surrey based wife of Jaguar/Bentley/Rolls driving company chairman I would think

AC43

8,759 posts

172 months

Tuesday 9th February
quotequote all
Touring442 said:
The GT had the 7.5 inch S discs with a servo and should have been ok. These went up to 8.4 inches (without a servo) mid 1974 with the 12 inch wheels.

The 7 inch Cooper discs were a bit marginal however.
My base car was a Clubman with drums all round.

I picked up some discs from Tam the Pole's scrapyard near Dunfermline.

They were miniscule and IIRC they came off a Cooper.

They were better than the drums but still pretty poor.

I suppose by then I was jumping in and out of my mates' Suds so they were bound to feel crap in comparison.



LuS1fer

37,492 posts

209 months

Tuesday 9th February
quotequote all
The Observers Book of Cars shows that both the Cooper S Mk II and the 1300GT had a 9.75:1 compression ratio compared to the 1275GT which had a lowly 8.8:1 compression ratio.

MPG is quoted as 28-29mpg which looks terrible nowadays.

Also of note is that the BMC cars had service intervals of 3000 miles whereas Ford cars were 6000 miles.

a8hex

5,416 posts

187 months

Tuesday 9th February
quotequote all
spanner10 said:
coppice said:
Van den Plas 1300 - hard to pigeonhole the ownership demographic other than its monumental levels of self delusion .
Vanden Plas 1100/1300 - Surrey based wife of Jaguar/Bentley/Rolls driving company chairman I would think
Not necessarily Surrey, there were other places in the home counties where the Jaguar/VDP DoubleSix driving directors would live with their wife.

coppice said:
So , a Riley 1300 - a sporty, well appointed car for the middle class gent who remembered when Rileys were something ...
Of course the Jaguar/VDP DoubleSix driving director might have recalled their Riley or yesteryear and have lamented that there were no real Riley cars available to compete with the DoubleSix.

Pit Pony

4,169 posts

85 months

Tuesday 9th February
quotequote all
LuS1fer said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
In terms of BHP, what was the difference between the twin SU 1275cc engine in say an Austin 1300GT, and the 1275cc twin SU engine in a Cooper S?
And what went into the Mini 1275GT?
According to my 1970 Observers Book of Cars -

Cooper S Mk II was 76bhp
Mini 1275GT was 59bhp (single carb)
1300GT/MG 1300 Mk II - 70bhp
Austin Healey/MG Midget 65bhp

For contrast, an Escort 1300GT with a single Weber -75bhp
Mg metro. Same engine as 1275 sport metro were both 75 BHp. And the metro turd...o was 93 BHP.

The BRM mini turbo was 93 BHP, but prototypes had the boost wound up to 120 bhp. And declared lethal.

LuS1fer

37,492 posts

209 months

Tuesday 9th February
quotequote all
I recall a road test of a Downton Mini, must have been the 80s. It was a dusky rose metallic colour.

I think it hit 60 in 10 seconds and I really wanted one. Not sure what that put out.

AW111

6,520 posts

97 months

Wednesday 10th February
quotequote all
LuS1fer said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
In terms of BHP, what was the difference between the twin SU 1275cc engine in say an Austin 1300GT, and the 1275cc twin SU engine in a Cooper S?
And what went into the Mini 1275GT?
According to my 1970 Observers Book of Cars -

Cooper S Mk II was 76bhp
Mini 1275GT was 59bhp (single carb)
1300GT/MG 1300 Mk II - 70bhp
Austin Healey/MG Midget 65bhp

For contrast, an Escort 1300GT with a single Weber -75bhp
Comparing it to Nissan's revised A-Series (1970) :

Wiki said:
The A12 engine (1171cc) produced 70 PS (51 kW) and 70 ft⋅lb (95 N⋅m) torque.

A special version of the A12 called the "A12 GX" engine was offered in Japanese Domestic Market Nissan Sunny 1200 GX sedans and coupes.

With twin Hitachi sidedraft carburetors, a longer duration camshaft and 10:1 compression ratio, it delivered 83 PS (61 kW) at 6400 rpm.

neutral 3

5,256 posts

134 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all


Saw this earlier. Said to be the only TC Coupe survivor in this colour.

neutral 3

5,256 posts

134 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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john2443

5,358 posts

175 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
Job lot of 8 Marinas - seller has 40 (yes, forty!) and needs to get rid of some!

They're also listed individually if you don't want the full set smile

I would quite like the camper, but don't have space to put it or any justifyable reason to use it!

aeropilot

23,777 posts

191 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
neutral 3 said:
Crikey.....that brings back memories....(or nighmares!) laugh

I'd almost forgotten what the inside of a TC Coupe looked like. Mine was a bluey-purple colour with similar colour brushed nylon seat facings - lovely hehe