Morris Marina - was it really that bad?

[coppice]

The Minor was actually a far better drive than the Marina , and got sideways easy enough . But so did everything else then, as grip levels were endearingly low. My first RWD car , a tired 69 Midget , could be induced to oversteer anywhere , any time on its skinny and rubbish tyres and as for dad's Vitesse 2 Litre , the side windows were more use for navigation than the windscreen . And what did the sainted Marina do? Understeer like a pig.

[Gary C]

coppice said:

And what did the sainted Marina do? Understeer like a pig.

Up until it suddenly decided to oversteer totally unpredictably.

It was the thing I hated most was the lack of consistency of the handling.

[otolith]

Gary C said:

Up until it suddenly decided to oversteer totally unpredictably.

It was the thing I hated most was the lack of consistency of the handling.

Ital was the same.

[Gary C]

otolith said:

Gary C said:

Up until it suddenly decided to oversteer totally unpredictably.

It was the thing I hated most was the lack of consistency of the handling.

Ital was the same.

Yes, another apprentice had an Ital and it was the same.

It also had a curved slot for the radio so that you couldn't change the head unit without lots of hacksawing.

[Watcher of the skies]

coppice said:

Tell you what - they drive and ride light years better than any Marina ever did .

I should think so. They are separated by 50 years.

[lowdrag]

Gary C said:

It also had a curved slot for the radio so that you couldn't change the head unit without lots of hacksawing.

It wasn't a head unit, it was a 5W radio, and you missed out that the dash curved away from you if it was RHD. Mine came in puke beige with the same colour plastic interior.

[Gary C]

lowdrag said:

Gary C said:

It also had a curved slot for the radio so that you couldn't change the head unit without lots of hacksawing.

It wasn't a head unit, it was a 5W radio, and you missed out that the dash curved away from you if it was RHD. Mine came in puke beige with the same colour plastic interior.

FFS, I know what it was.

Just a simple visual description.

[Touring442]

Mr lestat said:

Touring442 said:

The Minor 1000 was a superb wee thing to hoon around in. Tiff Needell learned to drive in one. In the end, very little was carried over from the Minor but it was a case of damned with faint praise - X Type Jag/posh Mondeo etc. There is bugger all wrong with torsion bars or lever arm dampers for that matter. For all that, the Marina was somewhat ill conceived and could have been a lot better.

But you know what? A lot of new cars sold today are quite frankly utter garbage. Horrid, ugly, cheaply made, bad riding stboxes like the Craptur, Juke, Mokka and junk like that. Folk don't know any better.

Front suspension was carried over as per the rear set up from the minor. It handled badly according to most reviews at the time and most people hate it. However go fill yer boots

[Mr lestat]

Gary C said:

Yes, another apprentice had an Ital and it was the same.

It also had a curved slot for the radio so that you couldn't change the head unit without lots of hacksawing.

Yes my dad had an Ital in the 80’s from new and I recall him complaining about the radio facing away from you. I wonder if the left hand drive versions had the same dash bottom part and it faced you, or was it mirrored and again it faced away. Assume BL wanted you to buy their curved tape player to fit the odd shaped slot.

[tr7v8]

Gary C said:

Yes, another apprentice had an Ital and it was the same.

It also had a curved slot for the radio so that you couldn't change the head unit without lots of hacksawing.

The radio was a standard Radiomobile. My second Ital, a 2L HLS Auto Estate had the standard fit ripped out & a Pioneer KEH-5300, adapter plate & Motorola amp & equaliser in with speakers in all 4 doors. I used to do around 1-3 Itals a week as a radio fitter so remember them well. Dad also worked for a BL dealer at the time.

[Gary C]

tr7v8 said:

Gary C said:

Yes, another apprentice had an Ital and it was the same.

It also had a curved slot for the radio so that you couldn't change the head unit without lots of hacksawing.

The radio was a standard Radiomobile. My second Ital, a 2L HLS Auto Estate had the standard fit ripped out & a Pioneer KEH-5300, adapter plate & Motorola amp & equaliser in with speakers in all 4 doors. I used to do around 1-3 Itals a week as a radio fitter so remember them well. Dad also worked for a BL dealer at the time.

My colleague hacked his dashboard to bits

[2xChevrons]

Mr lestat said:

Yes my dad had an Ital in the 80’s from new and I recall him complaining about the radio facing away from you. I wonder if the left hand drive versions had the same dash bottom part and it faced you, or was it mirrored and again it faced away. Assume BL wanted you to buy their curved tape player to fit the odd shaped slot.

The radio on the Marina 2/Ital with the curved dash always faced away from the driver, regardless of which hand-drive it was. The dash moulding was reversed. Same with the windscreen wipers - they always parked to the wrong side (in front of the driver, arcing towards the passenger) regardless of which side the steering wheel was on.

BL said that the radio position was a safety thing, providing a 'driver focussed' instrument panel and reducing distractions. This absolutely smacks of hindsight BS like the Allegro's Quartic wheel being so you could see the dials better. I don't think making the radio hard to see is exactly good for keeping the driver focused on the road...

CDP said:

When the Minor came out in 1948 how taut were the German saloons it was up against? From all accounts the suspension was good for its time, just not good enough for 1971 under a much heavier body...

I've said before - maybe earlier in this very thread - that people do the Minor a great disservice by saying that the Marina is 'just a rebodied Moggy Minor'. Minors drive way, way better than any Marina, even an Ital with all the suspension improvements.

Frankly, BL could have produced a perfectly decent Escort/Viva rival if they had just stuck a new body on the Minor floorpan and given it some telescopic dampers, front disc brakes and 1098 and 1275cc A-Series engines. Or put the Minor drivetrain in the Triumph Toledo platform with a restyled body on top.

That they went to all the expense and effort of designing a bespoke shell (of a weird in-between size) and retooling and redesigning a 1940s suspension system and ended up with something that drive worse than a car launched in 1948 speaks volumes.

Edited by 2xChevrons on Tuesday 4th January 22:32

[AW111]

2xChevrons said:

I've said before - maybe earlier in this very thread - that people do the Minor a great disservice by saying that the Marina is 'just a rebodied Moggy Minor'. Minors drive way, way better than any Marina, even an Ital with all the suspension improvements.

Frankly, BL could have produced a perfectly decent Escort/Viva rival if they had just stuck a new body on the Minor floorpan and given it some telescopic dampers, front disc brakes and 1098 and 1275cc A-Series engines. Or put the Minor drivetrain in the Triumph Toledo platform with a restyled body on top.

That they went to all the expense and effort of designing a bespoke shell (of a weird in-between size) and retooling and redesigning a 1940s suspension system and ended up with something that drive worse than a car launched in 1948 speaks volumes.

Edited by 2xChevrons on Tuesday 4th January 22:32

Common mistake. "We'll base the new model on X, that way we have parts commonality".
Then every loan part is re-designed and changed just a bit... you end up with a compromised design and no cost saving.

[Dastardly Dick]

Sad but true. I modified mine to have the ital dash and ital headlights.
It was bloody awful.

I apologise for any distress caused.

[LuS1fer]

2xChevrons said:

I've said before - maybe earlier in this very thread - that people do the Minor a great disservice by saying that the Marina is 'just a rebodied Moggy Minor'. Minors drive way, way better than any Marina, even an Ital with all the suspension improvements.

Frankly, BL could have produced a perfectly decent Escort/Viva rival if they had just stuck a new body on the Minor floorpan and given it some telescopic dampers, front disc brakes and 1098 and 1275cc A-Series engines. Or put the Minor drivetrain in the Triumph Toledo platform with a restyled body on top.

That they went to all the expense and effort of designing a bespoke shell (of a weird in-between size) and retooling and redesigning a 1940s suspension system and ended up with something that drive worse than a car launched in 1948 speaks volumes.

I suppose you have to blame the popularity of the Cortina.

BL could have used the money to perhaps develop the Maxi, maybe designed a booted version. It's not like the Brits were averse to front wheel drive, the BL 1100/1300 was the country's best selling car for many years and the maxi had a 5 speed box, the main tghing it lacked was any sort of marketing inspiration.

I recall in the late 80s, my snobby mother-in-law had a Rover 213SE, the little blocky Honda one, in French Blue and though a bit ugly, it was a decent car. In a bid to outdo my R5 GT Turbo, the following year she bought a Rover 216 GTi, in burgundy and quite a snazzy little looker it was and the Press gave it a big thumbs up, even against the 3-series.

Then the following year she turned up, all smug, in a silver Ital HLS with a tobacco vinyl roof and brown interior. I think it was a 2.0 auto. She was unable to comprehend the look of befuddlement on my disappointed face as I asked "Why did you do that!".

Interestingly, I found this road test of the 1.3HLS which mentions the bad handling but good steering and tries to excuse a rear axle failure.... https://www.flickr.com/photos/triggerscarstuff/934...

[Dastardly Dick]

Go on. You know you want it.

[lowdrag]

What engine is that?

[Dastardly Dick]

lowdrag said:

What engine is that?

Ecotec from a vauxhall thing.
Turbo charged iirc.

Edited by Dastardly Dick on Thursday 6th January 08:37

[2xChevrons]

LuS1fer said:

I suppose you have to blame the popularity of the Cortina.

BL could have used the money to perhaps develop the Maxi, maybe designed a booted version. It's not like the Brits were averse to front wheel drive, the BL 1100/1300 was the country's best selling car for many years and the maxi had a 5 speed box, the main tghing it lacked was any sort of marketing inspiration.

They did develop a booted version - the original plan was for the hatchback to be an Austin and the four-door saloon to be a Morris. The Maxi was supposed to be BMC's Cortina rival but the intransigence of Alec Issigonis and various production and business snafus on the way (such as having to use the ADO17's doors, which fixed the wheelbase and the overall size at something virtually the same as the ADO17) led to it being anything but. Eventually BMC were astute enough to realise that there was no market for a four-door, three-box Cortina-look-alike saloon that also had FWD and Hydrolastic suspension, and that anyone who did want such a machine would already be a 'Landcrab' customer. So, as implied by the name, the Maxi was to do for family saloon what the Mini had done for economy cars - be a radical new blueprint packed full of innovative design features. The sort of person who'd buy a big five-door hatchback in 1969 would be the sort of person not deterred by Hydrolastic suspension or an OHC engine with a five-speed gearbox in the sump. Or bland, function-driven looks.

Meanwhile the fleet market, wary of technical complexity and high service costs, kept buying Cortinas and Escorts with OHV engines, rear-wheel drive, live axles and ruthlessly simple and interchangeable mechanical bits clothed in a modern and stylish body offered in loads of subtly-graded trim levels. The fleet market was largely hostile to FWD and other clever features - the ADO16 sold incredibly well to the private buyer but did very poorly in the company car/fleet market, which was an increasingly crucial part of the British domestic market (especially once BMC realised that its dreams of being a key player in the EEC were not going to happen) in the late 1960s.

That was what the Marina was supposed to be - a parts-bin stopgap to shore up Austin-Morris' declining market share and hold the fort until a proper Cortina-beater (ADO77) could be produced and it fulfilled that brief well enough. But the replacement never arrived, so the stopgap made from bits of Morris Minor and Triumph Toledo, which was acceptably average in the early 1970s, had to soldier on into the early 80s, three times longer than it was ever supposed to be in production.

[Gary C]

Best thing about the Marina/ Ital was the door handles

Even ended up on the Espirt