Morris Marina - was it really that bad?

[aeropilot]

2xChevrons said:

I suspect your friend's mum was yanking your chain via judicious and subtle use of the foot-operated dipper switch. Or the electric system was (literally) on the blink!

Yep, either the former or the latter due to infamous use of Lucas Prince of Darkness electrical system

[otolith]

I think the opacity of the rose tint needed not to see these things as unmitigated crap must make driving challenging.

[CDP]

2xChevrons said:

That brand new body just needed better running gear. As I've pondered previously, just opting to re-use the coils/struts suspension from the Triumph Toledo rather than the Minor's torsion bars/lever arms would have been a big help. Even fitting telescopic dampers to the front and mounting the rear dampers vertically in proper hard-points built into the rear arches would have improved things.

Essentially there's nothing wrong with torsion bars, proper dampers correctly located would have made the big difference. Apparently the vans/pickups and last Itals had telescopic dampers. Maybe they couldn't get the lever arms by then?

[2xChevrons]

CDP said:

Essentially there's nothing wrong with torsion bars, proper dampers correctly located would have made the big difference. Apparently the vans/pickups and last Itals had telescopic dampers. Maybe they couldn't get the lever arms by then?

Indeed there is nothing wrong conceptually with torsion bars - the Marina's dynamic problems stemmed mostly from the poor-quality damping provided by the lever arms units at the front, and the inward-inclined telescopics at the back, which when combined with the live rear axle which relied on the leaf springs for the rest of its location, led to some nasty bump-steer effects. The steering geometry was just plain wrong in the early examples. Despite using its front suspension and steering almost wholesale, the Marina didn't handle or grip as nicely as the Morris Minor it replaced.

I don't know about the commercial Marinas, but the late Itals do indeed have telescopic dampers and the one I drove did indeed drive noticeably better than the Marinas - still wildly off the pace for an early 1980s car but had the Marina had a such a system in 1971, plus the sorted suspension geometry and the anti-roll bars that came along with the Marina 2 it would have been fine for a cheap mass-market RWD saloon of the time. Had they gone slightly further and also given the Marina rear damper mounts in the tops of the wheel arches which allowed the dampers to be mounted vertically (as per the Special Tuning upgrade kit) then it would have the potential to be pretty decent for what it was.

So by 1983 they'd just got around to turning the Ital into a car that would have been acceptable in 1971. Very typical British Leyland that by the time a car had been in production for nearly twice as long as had been initially planned it had developed into the car it should have been in the first place. The BL back catalogue is littered with other such examples.

And yes, I wouldn't be surprised if the impetus to finally standardise telescopic dampers on the Ital was that, with the MGB and MG Midget no longer in production, lever arm damper units were now prohibitively expensive to source in the volumes required for just the Ital. A bit like how it became unviable to retain Hydragas on the MGF in the long term once the Rover Metro/100 bit the dust.

[Touring442]

I used to service a 1983 Ital 1.3SL in that pale metallic blue - Zircon iirc. That was a telescopic damped example and I have to say, it was quite alright. You could really hustle it along. It has very sharp steering and just enough grip - it certainly wasn't an understeering deathtrap. Those later ones were quite well finished as well. If they'd launched it in that form in 1971 it would have received praise in the press, faint or otherwise. Ditto the last Ital vans - a decent pilot could make good B road progress.

[kimducati]

2xChevrons said:

I'm not sure you could even buy auto-dipping systems as an aftermarket accessory in the 60s and 70s.

I don't know who made it, but you could definitely get an aftermarket 'self dip' system in the very early '70's. I remember helping my dad fit one to a customers MG Midget at his garage back in probably 71 or 2.
The sensor was mounted on the drivers side front wing and looked like a small chrome bullet shaped thing, which obviously had a light sensor pointing forwards.
Honestly couldn't say if they worked or not though.
Kim

[Mr lestat]

kimducati said:

2xChevrons said:

I'm not sure you could even buy auto-dipping systems as an aftermarket accessory in the 60s and 70s.

I don't know who made it, but you could definitely get an aftermarket 'self dip' system in the very early '70's. I remember helping my dad fit one to a customers MG Midget at his garage back in probably 71 or 2.
The sensor was mounted on the drivers side front wing and looked like a small chrome bullet shaped thing, which obviously had a light sensor pointing forwards.
Honestly couldn't say if they worked or not though.
Kim

Could you ? Didn’t know that, I’ll have a google at it

[aeropilot]

Mr lestat said:

kimducati said:

2xChevrons said:

I'm not sure you could even buy auto-dipping systems as an aftermarket accessory in the 60s and 70s.

I don't know who made it, but you could definitely get an aftermarket 'self dip' system in the very early '70's. I remember helping my dad fit one to a customers MG Midget at his garage back in probably 71 or 2.
The sensor was mounted on the drivers side front wing and looked like a small chrome bullet shaped thing, which obviously had a light sensor pointing forwards.
Honestly couldn't say if they worked or not though.
Kim

Could you ? Didn’t know that, I’ll have a google at it

Sounds a bit like an aftermarket version of the Autronic Eye introduced by GM in 1952.

[coppice]

It must be false memory syndrome - I was old enough and keen on cars enough not to be duped by foot switches(which were still the norm in many cars ) , there was no aftermarket stuff (the car's owners were not remotely the type ) but I do clearly recall - or am convinced that I do - the car dipping by itself and all of us commenting when it got it wrong. Maybe the drugs were just kicking in ... the 1800 was owned by a GP after all ...