Was there ever a manual Citroen SM?
Discussion
Scotty2 said:
How many RHD ones were converted do we know? Did they retain air con if fitted as I seem to think there was an issue from something I read...somewhere...
Officially only handful in Australia and the three in Slough as mentioned up the thread, but when I spoke to an owner of one at the NEC restoration show earlier this year he told me that two, possibly three more have been done in the UK by private owners or workshops.RDMcG said:
I have always had a hankering for one of these beautiful but wallet-clearing cars. I assume they are all auto but wanted to check. Grateful for any info.
I have owned mine for just over a year. Yes to manual. Lovely noise and bewitching looks. It is a tricky car to look after but it is worth the worry. Go for originality - original leather always better than a retrim - can’t ever quite reproduce it quite right. The Continental Edison radio is worth a lot of fitted. They are well put together but rust is always a concern. I am not sure prices are on the rise. I think they have hit a plateau. If you love the car, the shape, the noise and what it stands for (a time when Citroen said what the hell and designed what they thought was right) and have the money then really seriously consider it. I adore mine. It is worth going into the garage to look at it sitting still. On a sunny day with everything humming along it is rock star like. Also the Citroen Club have been brilliant and are a great resource. Happy to chat it through it you people want something better than these rambling. Dave
Bustedmattress said:
I have owned mine for just over a year. Yes to manual. Lovely noise and bewitching looks. It is a tricky car to look after but it is worth the worry. Go for originality - original leather always better than a retrim - can’t ever quite reproduce it quite right. The Continental Edison radio is worth a lot of fitted. They are well put together but rust is always a concern. I am not sure prices are on the rise. I think they have hit a plateau. If you love the car, the shape, the noise and what it stands for (a time when Citroen said what the hell and designed what they thought was right) and have the money then really seriously consider it. I adore mine. It is worth going into the garage to look at it sitting still. On a sunny day with everything humming along it is rock star like. Also the Citroen Club have been brilliant and are a great resource. Happy to chat it through it you people want something better than these rambling.
Dave
That is very helpful . I am not a car investor at all..just someone who admits the SM greatly. If values go up or down makes no difference. I will take your advice on originality I need to check out how to service the car in Canada, as that is where it would live. They are not unknown here but are very rare. Rust is always a worry, no doubt. I will PM you when I get closer. Many thanks!Dave
P5BNij said:
Encouraging post Dave - thanks for that. A couple of quick questions off the bat - do you keep yours in a 'standard' sized garage and how long did it take to get used to the sensitive steering and mushroom like brake button...?
It’s a double depth garage to accommodate four cars - 2 plus 2 as it were. The car is 5 meters long - big fella - so you are dead right to factor that in to your reckoning. I have a Citroen GS and the braking system is the same. Although that has a a pedal rather than the button the feel is the same. This is a long way of saying not very long really. It is quite intuitive after the first go. The dealer that sold me the car said that some punters just couldn’t cope (with the brake that is). He imports SMs ( mine had come from Italy) and had had one prospective customer crash the car on a test drive so was a bit sensitive about it. He said he could tell in a few mins of the test drive if someone had an issue with the brake. Honestly if you are a normal sort of person, used to old cars it isn’t a problem.
The steering does catch me out now and again. It is two and a half turns lock to lock and self centering. It is also totally neutral steering where the power comes off the faster you go. The effect is that the car feels the same at 10 mph as it does at 70mph and beyond. I do sometimes over turn into corners when I forget how sensitive the turn is. Part of the charm of the car and more down to me being a bit crap more than anything else.
If I can work out how to post a picture I will put them up. I have one of me looking like a dick, but very happy just after it was delivered that makes me smile still.
RDMcG said:
That is very helpful . I am not a car investor at all..just someone who admits the SM greatly. If values go up or down makes no difference. I will take your advice on originality I need to check out how to service the car in Canada, as that is where it would live. They are not unknown here but are very rare. Rust is always a worry, no doubt. I will PM you when I get closer. Many thanks!
Very happy to talk and good luck with the search. It is part of the journey as it were, and hope you enjoy it. Sorry final one from me - I deliberately went for a carburetor car and not a fuel injected one. The latter have a bad rep for catching on fire due to (I think) a combo of pressure of fuel, leaky hoses and position of where stray fuel would spray. I think a good number of SMs in the US at least were fuel injected. Not sure if that plays the same way in Canada. Also the carburetor has triple Weber’s which adds to the sound experience .
Bustedmattress said:
It’s a double depth garage to accommodate four cars - 2 plus 2 as it were. The car is 5 meters long - big fella - so you are dead right to factor that in to your reckoning.
I have a Citroen GS and the braking system is the same. Although that has a a pedal rather than the button the feel is the same. This is a long way of saying not very long really. It is quite intuitive after the first go. The dealer that sold me the car said that some punters just couldn’t cope (with the brake that is). He imports SMs ( mine had come from Italy) and had had one prospective customer crash the car on a test drive so was a bit sensitive about it. He said he could tell in a few mins of the test drive if someone had an issue with the brake. Honestly if you are a normal sort of person, used to old cars it isn’t a problem.
The steering does catch me out now and again. It is two and a half turns lock to lock and self centering. It is also totally neutral steering where the power comes off the faster you go. The effect is that the car feels the same at 10 mph as it does at 70mph and beyond. I do sometimes over turn into corners when I forget how sensitive the turn is. Part of the charm of the car and more down to me being a bit crap more than anything else.
If I can work out how to post a picture I will put them up. I have one of me looking like a dick, but very happy just after it was delivered that makes me smile still.
I have a Citroen GS and the braking system is the same. Although that has a a pedal rather than the button the feel is the same. This is a long way of saying not very long really. It is quite intuitive after the first go. The dealer that sold me the car said that some punters just couldn’t cope (with the brake that is). He imports SMs ( mine had come from Italy) and had had one prospective customer crash the car on a test drive so was a bit sensitive about it. He said he could tell in a few mins of the test drive if someone had an issue with the brake. Honestly if you are a normal sort of person, used to old cars it isn’t a problem.
The steering does catch me out now and again. It is two and a half turns lock to lock and self centering. It is also totally neutral steering where the power comes off the faster you go. The effect is that the car feels the same at 10 mph as it does at 70mph and beyond. I do sometimes over turn into corners when I forget how sensitive the turn is. Part of the charm of the car and more down to me being a bit crap more than anything else.
If I can work out how to post a picture I will put them up. I have one of me looking like a dick, but very happy just after it was delivered that makes me smile still.
A dick in a crap t shirt with his new car
Bustedmattress said:
Very happy to talk and good luck with the search. It is part of the journey as it were, and hope you enjoy it.
Sorry final one from me - I deliberately went for a carburetor car and not a fuel injected one. The latter have a bad rep for catching on fire due to (I think) a combo of pressure of fuel, leaky hoses and position of where stray fuel would spray. I think a good number of SMs in the US at least were fuel injected. Not sure if that plays the same way in Canada. Also the carburetor has triple Weber’s which adds to the sound experience .
I will source the car in Europe- Legal to import them here and will take you advice on the Carb.Good advice!Sorry final one from me - I deliberately went for a carburetor car and not a fuel injected one. The latter have a bad rep for catching on fire due to (I think) a combo of pressure of fuel, leaky hoses and position of where stray fuel would spray. I think a good number of SMs in the US at least were fuel injected. Not sure if that plays the same way in Canada. Also the carburetor has triple Weber’s which adds to the sound experience .
A former colleague who retired 20 years ago was on the test driver team for the SM. He was on exchange from Rolls Royce of all places. Also worked on the Alfa Romeo 105 GTA programme.
Interesting guy, still has the fastest moving bog standard Focus Zetec 1.6 you will ever witness, in the office we had a former touring car driver and an international touring driver and old Alex kicked their arse and mine at the works Go-Karting day despite claiming he was only an engineer not a racer....
Interesting guy, still has the fastest moving bog standard Focus Zetec 1.6 you will ever witness, in the office we had a former touring car driver and an international touring driver and old Alex kicked their arse and mine at the works Go-Karting day despite claiming he was only an engineer not a racer....
Bustedmattress said:
Bustedmattress said:
It’s a double depth garage to accommodate four cars - 2 plus 2 as it were. The car is 5 meters long - big fella - so you are dead right to factor that in to your reckoning.
I have a Citroen GS and the braking system is the same. Although that has a a pedal rather than the button the feel is the same. This is a long way of saying not very long really. It is quite intuitive after the first go. The dealer that sold me the car said that some punters just couldn’t cope (with the brake that is). He imports SMs ( mine had come from Italy) and had had one prospective customer crash the car on a test drive so was a bit sensitive about it. He said he could tell in a few mins of the test drive if someone had an issue with the brake. Honestly if you are a normal sort of person, used to old cars it isn’t a problem.
The steering does catch me out now and again. It is two and a half turns lock to lock and self centering. It is also totally neutral steering where the power comes off the faster you go. The effect is that the car feels the same at 10 mph as it does at 70mph and beyond. I do sometimes over turn into corners when I forget how sensitive the turn is. Part of the charm of the car and more down to me being a bit crap more than anything else.
If I can work out how to post a picture I will put them up. I have one of me looking like a dick, but very happy just after it was delivered that makes me smile still.
I have a Citroen GS and the braking system is the same. Although that has a a pedal rather than the button the feel is the same. This is a long way of saying not very long really. It is quite intuitive after the first go. The dealer that sold me the car said that some punters just couldn’t cope (with the brake that is). He imports SMs ( mine had come from Italy) and had had one prospective customer crash the car on a test drive so was a bit sensitive about it. He said he could tell in a few mins of the test drive if someone had an issue with the brake. Honestly if you are a normal sort of person, used to old cars it isn’t a problem.
The steering does catch me out now and again. It is two and a half turns lock to lock and self centering. It is also totally neutral steering where the power comes off the faster you go. The effect is that the car feels the same at 10 mph as it does at 70mph and beyond. I do sometimes over turn into corners when I forget how sensitive the turn is. Part of the charm of the car and more down to me being a bit crap more than anything else.
If I can work out how to post a picture I will put them up. I have one of me looking like a dick, but very happy just after it was delivered that makes me smile still.
A dick in a crap t shirt with his new car
How often do you use yours...?
Edited by P5BNij on Saturday 16th November 10:12
Edited by P5BNij on Saturday 16th November 10:13
P5BNij said:
Thanks again and what a beautiful car, the colour really suits it!! I've read the print off the Brooklands road test SM book and taken into consideration the length of just over 16ft bumper to bumper, luckily my garage is just deep enough. The SM is about 6'' longer than the Series 2 XJ6 I had which is fine. The first time I ever sat in one was at the NEC a few years ago, a gorgeous metallic gold one with tan interior, sitting in it and closing the door I thought for a minute that I was in an episode of Gerry Anderson's 'UFO'... it was utterly otherworldy.
How often do you use yours...?
Thank you that is very kind. I have done about 700 miles in it this year which is about every other weekend in the summer. Highlights were the Citroen centenary event in Coventry, the Citroen SM meet in the south where there were 8 together and a local classic car meet where the car was voted Car I Would Most Like To Take Home. I will try to upload the picture I took of the 8 cars together. If it works mine is fourth from the left. They did look good lined up. How often do you use yours...?
Edited by P5BNij on Saturday 16th November 10:12
Edited by P5BNij on Saturday 16th November 10:13
The car had a badly chipped windscreen - I think at some point the glass covering the headlight had exploded against it (known issue which is why many owners put a Perspex guard over it) and the fragments hit the windscreen at speed. When I found a crack as well I decided to get a replacement. That was a bespoke 12 week order from Pilkington and then finding and fitter took a bit of work but the guy who did it did do a great job. I have a failed electric window which is being sorted together with upgrading the alternator and replacing the a/c compressor so I can reinstate the air conditioning. There is a really interesting history as to the original a/c compressors (which are monsters) and engines lunching themselves. There is also a decent list of other things like worn bump stops and things like that. Nothing too awful
I have two other proper old cars - another Citroen (GS) and an Austin Healey 3000 - and each is a v different drive to the other. The SM is very lovely ad cultured compared to the other two. I want to take it abroad next year (I used this year to flush out the faults and worn out bits) and does have the feel of a car you can drive and drive for hours. Much though I love the Healey after 1.5 hours at speed you are always ready for a break.
Bustedmattress said:
Thank you that is very kind. I have done about 700 miles in it this year which is about every other weekend in the summer. Highlights were the Citroen centenary event in Coventry, the Citroen SM meet in the south where there were 8 together and a local classic car meet where the car was voted Car I Would Most Like To Take Home. I will try to upload the picture I took of the 8 cars together. If it works mine is fourth from the left. They did look good lined up.
The car had a badly chipped windscreen - I think at some point the glass covering the headlight had exploded against it (known issue which is why many owners put a Perspex guard over it) and the fragments hit the windscreen at speed. When I found a crack as well I decided to get a replacement. That was a bespoke 12 week order from Pilkington and then finding and fitter took a bit of work but the guy who did it did do a great job. I have a failed electric window which is being sorted together with upgrading the alternator and replacing the a/c compressor so I can reinstate the air conditioning. There is a really interesting history as to the original a/c compressors (which are monsters) and engines lunching themselves. There is also a decent list of other things like worn bump stops and things like that. Nothing too awful
I have two other proper old cars - another Citroen (GS) and an Austin Healey 3000 - and each is a v different drive to the other. The SM is very lovely ad cultured compared to the other two. I want to take it abroad next year (I used this year to flush out the faults and worn out bits) and does have the feel of a car you can drive and drive for hours. Much though I love the Healey after 1.5 hours at speed you are always ready for a break.
The car had a badly chipped windscreen - I think at some point the glass covering the headlight had exploded against it (known issue which is why many owners put a Perspex guard over it) and the fragments hit the windscreen at speed. When I found a crack as well I decided to get a replacement. That was a bespoke 12 week order from Pilkington and then finding and fitter took a bit of work but the guy who did it did do a great job. I have a failed electric window which is being sorted together with upgrading the alternator and replacing the a/c compressor so I can reinstate the air conditioning. There is a really interesting history as to the original a/c compressors (which are monsters) and engines lunching themselves. There is also a decent list of other things like worn bump stops and things like that. Nothing too awful
I have two other proper old cars - another Citroen (GS) and an Austin Healey 3000 - and each is a v different drive to the other. The SM is very lovely ad cultured compared to the other two. I want to take it abroad next year (I used this year to flush out the faults and worn out bits) and does have the feel of a car you can drive and drive for hours. Much though I love the Healey after 1.5 hours at speed you are always ready for a break.
Bustedmattress said:
Thank you that is very kind. I have done about 700 miles in it this year which is about every other weekend in the summer. Highlights were the Citroen centenary event in Coventry, the Citroen SM meet in the south where there were 8 together and a local classic car meet where the car was voted Car I Would Most Like To Take Home. I will try to upload the picture I took of the 8 cars together. If it works mine is fourth from the left. They did look good lined up.
The car had a badly chipped windscreen - I think at some point the glass covering the headlight had exploded against it (known issue which is why many owners put a Perspex guard over it) and the fragments hit the windscreen at speed. When I found a crack as well I decided to get a replacement. That was a bespoke 12 week order from Pilkington and then finding and fitter took a bit of work but the guy who did it did do a great job. I have a failed electric window which is being sorted together with upgrading the alternator and replacing the a/c compressor so I can reinstate the air conditioning. There is a really interesting history as to the original a/c compressors (which are monsters) and engines lunching themselves. There is also a decent list of other things like worn bump stops and things like that. Nothing too awful
I have two other proper old cars - another Citroen (GS) and an Austin Healey 3000 - and each is a v different drive to the other. The SM is very lovely ad cultured compared to the other two. I want to take it abroad next year (I used this year to flush out the faults and worn out bits) and does have the feel of a car you can drive and drive for hours. Much though I love the Healey after 1.5 hours at speed you are always ready for a break.
If I'd known about the centenary thing in Coventry I'd have gone along, I live in Rugby. One of the owners I spoke to at the NEC show said they need using as often as possible rather than being left sat in the garage, true of most classics really but I guess with the SM it likes all the hydraulics to be kept working properly. The more I spoke to him the less worried I became about the prospect of owning one some day.The car had a badly chipped windscreen - I think at some point the glass covering the headlight had exploded against it (known issue which is why many owners put a Perspex guard over it) and the fragments hit the windscreen at speed. When I found a crack as well I decided to get a replacement. That was a bespoke 12 week order from Pilkington and then finding and fitter took a bit of work but the guy who did it did do a great job. I have a failed electric window which is being sorted together with upgrading the alternator and replacing the a/c compressor so I can reinstate the air conditioning. There is a really interesting history as to the original a/c compressors (which are monsters) and engines lunching themselves. There is also a decent list of other things like worn bump stops and things like that. Nothing too awful
I have two other proper old cars - another Citroen (GS) and an Austin Healey 3000 - and each is a v different drive to the other. The SM is very lovely ad cultured compared to the other two. I want to take it abroad next year (I used this year to flush out the faults and worn out bits) and does have the feel of a car you can drive and drive for hours. Much though I love the Healey after 1.5 hours at speed you are always ready for a break.
Some folk think the rear end treatment is a little fussy but I think it's bang on - I spotted this one in the main car park at Goodwood Revival a few weeks ago...
Johan Cruijff's SM...
I've had my SM for some 6 years or so. Bought from the Netherlands where old Citroens are really valued and generally well cared for - and there are several specialists!
An investment? Well it has appreciated by about 60% odd so maybe.
Some mis-information regarding the fuel injection versions. When introduced into France they were amongst a very small number of cars with flexible fuel pipes and of course a high pressure fuel supply - the inevitable happened. Given virtually everything now has that combination the rumour is just that.
Having said that the fuel injection is quite primitive. Mine now has a modern ECU and smaller CX injectors - instant 35% decrease in fuel consumption and cleaner running all the time. Allied to the Rospellier ignition conversion it fires first time every time.
The hydraulics are complicated, but follow the factory manual and it is straight forward - if time consuming. All the parts, apart from the DIRAVI regulator, are available. A good LED headlight conversion transforms night driving.
On the move it is addictive, great noise and looks and surprisingly good road holding so long as you load the suspension gently on the entry. Somewhat noisier than a modern car, but it gets happier and happier as it speeds up.....
But it is a car that you need to understand and address issues as they occur. And yes I sometimes go into the garage and just look.
An investment? Well it has appreciated by about 60% odd so maybe.
Some mis-information regarding the fuel injection versions. When introduced into France they were amongst a very small number of cars with flexible fuel pipes and of course a high pressure fuel supply - the inevitable happened. Given virtually everything now has that combination the rumour is just that.
Having said that the fuel injection is quite primitive. Mine now has a modern ECU and smaller CX injectors - instant 35% decrease in fuel consumption and cleaner running all the time. Allied to the Rospellier ignition conversion it fires first time every time.
The hydraulics are complicated, but follow the factory manual and it is straight forward - if time consuming. All the parts, apart from the DIRAVI regulator, are available. A good LED headlight conversion transforms night driving.
On the move it is addictive, great noise and looks and surprisingly good road holding so long as you load the suspension gently on the entry. Somewhat noisier than a modern car, but it gets happier and happier as it speeds up.....
But it is a car that you need to understand and address issues as they occur. And yes I sometimes go into the garage and just look.
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