MOT Exemption - Thoughts
Discussion
As with all things this is really about money. I costs to create manuals and training for testers to follow and historic vehicles need to be tested to the limits at their time of manufacture. It's easier and more importantly cheaper to train them for modren vehicles only. Those of us with older cars know we have to do the work to find a sympathic tester who won't try and apply modern car testing values to our cars or they would fail.
HealeyV8 said:
As with all things this is really about money. I costs to create manuals and training for testers to follow and historic vehicles need to be tested to the limits at their time of manufacture. It's easier and more importantly cheaper to train them for modren vehicles only. Those of us with older cars know we have to do the work to find a sympathic tester who won't try and apply modern car testing values to our cars or they would fail.
I think you hit the nail on the head regarding money. 'Old' rules, to which 'old' cars are subject to, are easily open to misinterpretation.Couple of examples;
On one occasion the tester asked me to start and warm up the car for an emissions test...... my car's 'emissions testing' is limited to visible smoke. Still, it was interesting to see that it was - just about - legal, even for a more modern car.
And once, I was given an advisory re slight play in a rear wheel bearing. Nothing wrong with the bearing - but the splines on the rear axle / wire wheel was a little worn. I could (possibly) have resolved this just by hitting the spinner on harder - although I had a spare wheel (spare to the spare, if that makes sense) painted, newly tyred and ready for fitting. Problem solved.
But the tester 'missed' the possibility of something other than the obvious. Not a criticism - but a tester can only s
t with the arse that he's got. (If you'll pardon the expression!).It's a bit of an ask for MOT testers to know 'old' cars, with all their foibles - were an MOT tester to miss something obvious to the owners then the value of an MOT (in the event of a subsequent accident) might be bought into question.
I would imagine that every club has knowledge of an MOT station near them that is fully conversant with classic cars. Check with the local branch of your marque club. Here in France I had to have an MOT done for the 1989 LynxXKSS. It is based on a 1967 E-type. But - and a big but - the powers that be say the car is a 1989 one and as such subject to 1989 emissions. So the MOT man scratched his head, brought in his new Citroen, and put the probe in his exhaust. My car passed 
300bhp/ton said:
t.boydy said:
If your 'historic' vehicle is modified, you will need to present it for an MOT.
Not according to The Government. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Checking back on my MOTs for 30 years..... my only failure(s) have been handbrake related (twice since 2005). And to be honest, I know that - it's a simple enough check. Possibly it is better (as in safer) for ME to take responsibility, rather than rely on a once yearly test.
I would rather have a cheaper MOT test - for older vehicles, not needing emissions etc But MOT stations would need to be 'old car sympathetic'* and these getting somewhat more difficult to find.
- By 'sympathetic' I mean aware of rules being applied based on age of vehicle and not a blanket approach
Edited by alfaspecial on Wednesday 20th November 07:43
300bhp/ton said:
t.boydy said:
If your 'historic' vehicle is modified, you will need to present it for an MOT.
Not according to The Government. lowdrag said:
300bhp/ton said:
t.boydy said:
If your 'historic' vehicle is modified, you will need to present it for an MOT.
Not according to The Government. i.e. You can have an MGB with alloys wheels and a sports exhaust and it will still be MoT exempt.
lowdrag said:
300bhp/ton said:
t.boydy said:
If your 'historic' vehicle is modified, you will need to present it for an MOT.
Not according to The Government. Sorry to hear of your problem with the DVLA.
Might I ask which car? Was it your E-type or (D-type) / XKSS replica ?
Reason I ask is that whilst (obviously) the XKSS was a Lynx or RAM (or whatever) was a replica but you have, from previous postings, rebuilt the E-type at least a couple of times. So possibly that might have fallen foul of the substantially modified rules?
What was the issue?
And when was the problem - critically, was it since the MOT exemption changes?
Or was it perhaps to do with the 'name' on the on the registration document?
The kit car boys had fun and games a decade or so ago.
Particularly 'replicas' eg Cobras.
Many were constructed, MOT'd, taxed etc for decades but the registration document had been left 'unchanged' ie Assuming they used - say - Jaguar running gear, the registration document was unchanged so that the car was registered on the road as a Jaguar (XJ6 or whatever). Clearly this was erroneous. But equally, they could not describe the car as a AC Cobra ('coz that might be deemed to be pretending the car was something when it wasn't).
The 'correct' way of dealing with the registration would be to register the car as (say) a Gardiner Douglas / Southern Roadcraft or even a Jaguar 'sports'.
I think quite a few people were caught out this way.
The authorities 'said' that they gave plenty of notice for owners to correctly re-register their car but those that missed the deadline would have to re-register the car AFTER obtaining an IVA.
You do occasionally see kit cars for sale, taxed and on the road, but with (technically) incorrect documentation. The value of these is far, far less than a correctly registered car because (technically) on taxing the vehicle the document is saying it is something other than what it is.
eg On the road looking like a 'Seven', registered as a Ford Sierra
You've probably discussed this on site many, many times - if so please could you direct me to the thread. Or possibly PM me if you don't want to discuss it in the open.
Once again. Very sorry for you. An IVA is impossible for many older kits/specials/ re-constituted classics.
Try getting a Pur Sang Bugatti through an IVA: you'd have a failure list so long that it would involve cutting down the entire
Oh, don't worry yourself too much. I've been living in France for 20 years now (but with a pied-a terre in the UK) but kept my UK plates for reasons one might understand. After the changes last year I telephoned the DVLA and asked, since the car conformed, if they would change the V5 from E-type to XKSS. "No problem" was the answer, so I sent it in with copies of the Lynx brochures, proof that the car was modified over 30 years ago and so on. I heard nothing for three months, so I rang and asked what the problem was. They said that the affair had been passed on to their new specialist department and a bit later I had a letter saying, with no reasons given, that my V5 was withdrawn and that I would have to reregister the car as a replica under IVA rules. They were obdurate, not replying to correspondence and refusing to change their decision, despite me pointing out that Lynx qualified under the rules providing for low volume manufacturers etc. So, I know the president of the Classic Car Register here, had a chat, and in a month had the car on French plates. But not everyone is as lucky as I am. Keep your heads under the parapet, don't make waves, and leave your V5 as is. Not many replicas, most built on the basis of an old V5, qualify as over 30 years old and would be in the same position. But all's well that ends well. Here's a photo of my car from a magazine published this month. In France, if you can prove the car was built over 25 years ago, all is straightforward. The only difference is that an MOT is required every five years. And to cap it all the value of the car has increased because so few good replicas can get registered in France. With my conversion (and Lynx did the same) there are still less than a dozen around the world (if you exclude the new LHD ones built in Czechoslovakia that is)
The plates I had them made by Tippers in the UK, and are slightly off-limits, but I wanted to keep the English style.
The plates I had them made by Tippers in the UK, and are slightly off-limits, but I wanted to keep the English style.
Edited by lowdrag on Wednesday 20th November 12:33
Thanks for the prompt reply, Lowdrag
So it seems you were 'caught' with the bureaucratic registration nightmare I referred to.........
My car is 50 years old but was modified over 30 years ago. According to the back of the V112 leaflet it qualifies as category R: A vehicle.... registered or manufactured 40 years ago and which has not been substantially changed in the last 30 years.
Interestingly all the other cars of my 'make', about 20 were made, are seemingly all registered as 'Austin Healey'.
eg https://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/lenham/healey... reg 272 YMC is a registered as an Austin
I think mine is technically the only car registered correctly (although the 'How Many Left' site does not recognise the name)
I was passing the Post Office this morning and went in and asked for a V112 (thought I'd impress them by my knowledge of the paperwork!). They'd never heard of a V112 but did know of a Declaration of Exemption from MOT......... (A V112)
I'm only considering my options - the MOT runs out in February, is (free) road taxed until July - but the PO didn't know whether or not I could change to Exempt straight away, whether I'd have to wait until the MOT expired, or whether I'd have to wait until I next came to (free) tax it and make a declaration then - in which case theoretically I could be (illegally) un-MOT'd between Feb & July next year.
I think you implied it's best to avoid trouble with bureaucracy by just keeping quiet.
The authorities usually only hang people who hand them their own rope!
Your XKSS looks great btw.
So it seems you were 'caught' with the bureaucratic registration nightmare I referred to.........
My car is 50 years old but was modified over 30 years ago. According to the back of the V112 leaflet it qualifies as category R: A vehicle.... registered or manufactured 40 years ago and which has not been substantially changed in the last 30 years.
Interestingly all the other cars of my 'make', about 20 were made, are seemingly all registered as 'Austin Healey'.
eg https://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/lenham/healey... reg 272 YMC is a registered as an Austin
I think mine is technically the only car registered correctly (although the 'How Many Left' site does not recognise the name)
I was passing the Post Office this morning and went in and asked for a V112 (thought I'd impress them by my knowledge of the paperwork!). They'd never heard of a V112 but did know of a Declaration of Exemption from MOT......... (A V112)
I'm only considering my options - the MOT runs out in February, is (free) road taxed until July - but the PO didn't know whether or not I could change to Exempt straight away, whether I'd have to wait until the MOT expired, or whether I'd have to wait until I next came to (free) tax it and make a declaration then - in which case theoretically I could be (illegally) un-MOT'd between Feb & July next year.
I think you implied it's best to avoid trouble with bureaucracy by just keeping quiet.
The authorities usually only hang people who hand them their own rope!
Your XKSS looks great btw.
I am pleased you managed to find an alternative resolution. But yes, total bummer over all 
I suspect the mistake was contacting the DVLA in the first place. I know of story of someone who rebuilt a Land Rover with a new galv chassis and a Tdi in place of the 19J 2.5TD. All legit, but decided to let the DVLA know.... much money and time later it ended up on a Q plate
Sadly I doubt most people working in the administration side of the DVLA have any passion or knowledge about vehicles. They simply don't know and have no interesting in knowing what things really are and how they are built. They are just ticking boxes.
I suspect the mistake was contacting the DVLA in the first place. I know of story of someone who rebuilt a Land Rover with a new galv chassis and a Tdi in place of the 19J 2.5TD. All legit, but decided to let the DVLA know.... much money and time later it ended up on a Q plate
Sadly I doubt most people working in the administration side of the DVLA have any passion or knowledge about vehicles. They simply don't know and have no interesting in knowing what things really are and how they are built. They are just ticking boxes.
lowdrag said:
After the changes last year I telephoned the DVLA and asked, since the car conformed, if they would change the V5 from E-type to XKSS. "No problem" was the answer, so I sent it in with copies of the Lynx brochures, proof that the car was modified over 30 years ago and so on. I heard nothing for three months, so I rang and asked what the problem was. They said that the affair had been passed on to their new specialist department and a bit later I had a letter saying, with no reasons given, that my V5 was withdrawn and that I would have to reregister the car as a replica under IVA rules.
On the DVLA and registration issues, I agree that the good advice for individuals is generally keep your head down. Or choose your moment. For example, now may be a good time to re-register a 40-year old car that has been stored for years, isn't MoT worthy and has a lost or out of date (wrong address) V5.
It would be good to see the old car movement as a whole doing a better job on this. The Federation of Historic Motor Clubs (if I've got their name correct) don't seem particularly interested in anything modified. Individual clubs don't have the influence. And my impression is that the custom/hot rod world has given up.
Perhaps, when some of 'Le Mans' Bentleys that WO didn't build hit the DVLA buffers, something will happen?
It would be good to see the old car movement as a whole doing a better job on this. The Federation of Historic Motor Clubs (if I've got their name correct) don't seem particularly interested in anything modified. Individual clubs don't have the influence. And my impression is that the custom/hot rod world has given up.
Perhaps, when some of 'Le Mans' Bentleys that WO didn't build hit the DVLA buffers, something will happen?
My E-type I awaited the tax renewal and just ticked the box. No problems there. As far as your MOT is concerned - you are not driving illegally between the MOT running out and the next tax date. The car is over 40 years old and doesn't need one. But, and this you might need to clear up, some say it is the year after it becomes 40, (so registered 1/4/1979 is the 1/1/20 for example) but this article states exactly what I was told by the DVLA:-
https://www.admiral.com/magazine/guides/motor/clas...
That is, that it is a rolling date and not the year after. It's curious, but apparently the DVLA have reset the computer on a rolling date so your car is automatically recognized as being MOT free the day it hits 40.
https://www.admiral.com/magazine/guides/motor/clas...
That is, that it is a rolling date and not the year after. It's curious, but apparently the DVLA have reset the computer on a rolling date so your car is automatically recognized as being MOT free the day it hits 40.
lowdrag said:
My E-type I awaited the tax renewal and just ticked the box. No problems there. As far as your MOT is concerned - you are not driving illegally between the MOT running out and the next tax date. The car is over 40 years old and doesn't need one. But, and this you might need to clear up, some say it is the year after it becomes 40, (so registered 1/4/1979 is the 1/1/20 for example) but this article states exactly what I was told by the DVLA:-
https://www.admiral.com/magazine/guides/motor/clas...
That is, that it is a rolling date and not the year after. It's curious, but apparently the DVLA have reset the computer on a rolling date so your car is automatically recognized as being MOT free the day it hits 40.
MoT and Tax exemption aren't the same thing, so you are correct. And the dates are slightly different, thus it is possible to have a vehicle that is MoT exempt, but still needs to pay road tax.https://www.admiral.com/magazine/guides/motor/clas...
That is, that it is a rolling date and not the year after. It's curious, but apparently the DVLA have reset the computer on a rolling date so your car is automatically recognized as being MOT free the day it hits 40.
300bhp/ton said:
MoT and Tax exemption aren't the same thing, so you are correct. And the dates are slightly different, thus it is possible to have a vehicle that is MoT exempt, but still needs to pay road tax.
Well, yes and no, because here we are discussing 40+ year-old cars which while not tax exempt are free road tax. If the car is "taxed" that is all it needs when the MOT expires, and the declaration can take place the next time you tax it. Oh, and I forgot to mention earlier, the stupidest part is that here in France the "V5" is for a Lynx XKSS.lowdrag said:
300bhp/ton said:
MoT and Tax exemption aren't the same thing, so you are correct. And the dates are slightly different, thus it is possible to have a vehicle that is MoT exempt, but still needs to pay road tax.
Well, yes and no, because here we are discussing 40+ year-old cars which while not tax exempt are free road tax. If the car is "taxed" that is all it needs when the MOT expires, and the declaration can take place the next time you tax it. Oh, and I forgot to mention earlier, the stupidest part is that here in France the "V5" is for a Lynx XKSS.300bhp/ton My car is MOT'd until Feb and taxed (exempt) to July. It qualifies I believe, as MOT exempt (over 40+ years old & no substantial mods for 30+ years).
I just want to (if I decide to go down the MOT exempt route) make sure I don't make a rod for my own back. As, unfortunately, Lowdrag did when, as I understand it, he tried to change the V5 name from something that was obviously inaccurate (E-type) to the correct name (Lynx XKSS).
How about this. As I don't use the car over winter perhaps I could SORN it in January and re-tax it (free) in February, ticking the MOT exemption declaration ..... any possible gaps in my logic?
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