Jaguar Land Rover goes after replica community
Discussion
craigjm said:
DonkeyApple said:
But no one has said that Jaguars heritage isn't important! Isn't clamping down on copies, in fact, an argument that even JLR now appreciate that importance?
Indeed. Surely if you value your heritage then you are very protective of it craigjm said:
The vast majority of new cars buyers, especially in markets like China, don’t give one fig about the history of the company and all that. It’s just a consumer product and for those vast majority of buyers they will have already forgotten about this story.
Which is it to be ? “All JLR are really doing is calling time on people sticking Jaguar badges and bodies on cars that aren't Jaguars or that model of Jaguar. “
My understanding was that a lot of these replicas utilise Jaguar mechanicals. If I take an Austin seven chassis and engine block and rebuild with a sports body then I feel entitled to put an Austin badge on it. Do any C or D type reps use modded XK or even e type underpinnings ? I know they use the engine blocks.
My understanding was that a lot of these replicas utilise Jaguar mechanicals. If I take an Austin seven chassis and engine block and rebuild with a sports body then I feel entitled to put an Austin badge on it. Do any C or D type reps use modded XK or even e type underpinnings ? I know they use the engine blocks.
GoodOlBoy said:
craigjm said:
DonkeyApple said:
But no one has said that Jaguars heritage isn't important! Isn't clamping down on copies, in fact, an argument that even JLR now appreciate that importance?
Indeed. Surely if you value your heritage then you are very protective of it craigjm said:
The vast majority of new cars buyers, especially in markets like China, don’t give one fig about the history of the company and all that. It’s just a consumer product and for those vast majority of buyers they will have already forgotten about this story.
Which is it to be ?We appear to attach some kind of meaning, some kind of feeling etc towards metal boxes because we are car enthusiasts but we have to recognise that the vast majority of people are not. It matters not to most people how many times Jaguar won Le Mans before they were born, how they drove cars through the night to Geneva or anything else but that doesnt mean that it should be forgotten about by Jaguar and therefore have anyone that likes to profit from making copies of their products surely?
GoodOlBoy said:
craigjm said:
DonkeyApple said:
But no one has said that Jaguars heritage isn't important! Isn't clamping down on copies, in fact, an argument that even JLR now appreciate that importance?
Indeed. Surely if you value your heritage then you are very protective of it craigjm said:
The vast majority of new cars buyers, especially in markets like China, don’t give one fig about the history of the company and all that. It’s just a consumer product and for those vast majority of buyers they will have already forgotten about this story.
Which is it to be ?craigjm said:
The vast majority of new cars buyers, especially in markets like China, don’t give one fig about the history of the company and all that.
[/footnote]
JLR Chinese advert. [/footnote]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyZL0xdKj0E
Nosynchro said:
“All JLR are really doing is calling time on people sticking Jaguar badges and bodies on cars that aren't Jaguars or that model of Jaguar. “
My understanding was that a lot of these replicas utilise Jaguar mechanicals. If I take an Austin seven chassis and engine block and rebuild with a sports body then I feel entitled to put an Austin badge on it. Do any C or D type reps use modded XK or even e type underpinnings ? I know they use the engine blocks.
It makes no difference - the argument is about whether those people have the permission of the owner of the IP to use those badges, or not. There is no "entitlement" to someone else's property, so you can do whatever you want, but you are not "entitled" to it, & if they object, you're in trouble.My understanding was that a lot of these replicas utilise Jaguar mechanicals. If I take an Austin seven chassis and engine block and rebuild with a sports body then I feel entitled to put an Austin badge on it. Do any C or D type reps use modded XK or even e type underpinnings ? I know they use the engine blocks.
To continue the watch analogy from DonkeyApple, you can stick a Rolex label on your Casio, but don't be surprised if a) people think you're a bit of a wally, & b) Rolex lawyers come after you if you try selling your rebadged Casio's as "tribute Rolex's" - in the real world, your "entitlement" is plagiarism.
GoodOlBoy said:
craigjm said:
The vast majority of new cars buyers, especially in markets like China, don’t give one fig about the history of the company and all that.
[/footnote]
JLR Chinese advert. [/footnote]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyZL0xdKj0E
GoodOlBoy said:
craigjm said:
The vast majority of new cars buyers, especially in markets like China, don’t give one fig about the history of the company and all that.
[/footnote]
JLR Chinese advert. [/footnote]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyZL0xdKj0E
Nosynchro said:
So way more Jaguar than many “real” C and D types out there
A C-type was just a lightweight XK120, so apart from the cylinder head and the sand-cast carbs most of the drive train was stock XK. The chassis of course was completely different. My comment was a bit tongue in cheek because in my case some parts had to be fabricated since the car was a one-off, but in the main a stock C-type isn't that difficult to build. And as regards my photo, I was being mischievous. I put it up just to see the reaction, and I won the bet.
craigjm said:
Have you ever bought a car because of something the car company did 70 years ago? Do all of your friends, colleagues and acquaintances only buy cars with some kind of "history"? would the sales of the F-type be any less in reality? There will always be some which is why I said vast majority and not all
No one buys a luxury car for any logical reason. Lets face it, no one needs one, a bogo standard car would be just as functional. So we buy our toys because we fancy them, a large part of that is the image they hold for us. Part of that image will be built on the history, this is why the marketing people at Jaguar reach back for the Cs, Ds & and E-Types of their history book. Of course the intended market isn't going to be buying one of those, no they'll be buying some boring E/F-Pace or XE with a boring 4 cylinder diesel engine but what got them into the Jaguar showroom was the brand. Jaguar went racing back in the 50s because it was a case of race on Sunday, sell on Monday. They weren't selling the race cars (in any significant numbers back then either) they were using the race cars to sell the more humdrum models. Its still the case and the marketing people know it. You build a dream, you sell what people can afford to buy and actually fits in with their needs.
People who buy an F-Type are buying one because they fancy one, and part of that is they fancy the image. They're not, on the whole, lining up all the possible competitors and carrying out a details point by point analysis of every aspect of the different options, assigning them a score, totting them up on a spreadsheet and buying the car with the highest score. They buy with their heart. This why it is so hard for new entrants to get into the market. Look at how hard Lexus have been trying, when did you last see one of their coupes at least in the UK?
Me? I bought an X150 coz I thought it was funny to have an X150 which thought it was an XK to go with the XK150 I had at the time. I didn't need one, but I quite fancied it. I didn't fancy an SL or a 911, they don't have the same place in my heart. Although I nearly bought SWMBO an SL back in the 90s before we had kids and so she needed something more practical.
Touring442 said:
craigjm said:
Have you ever bought a car because of something the car company did 70 years ago? D
But people do so. It maybe fond memories of picnics with grandad and grandma, it might be because they paid him 10/- to wash the car or it might be a friend's Dad's car. People want to relive their youth and have the means to do so. Just look at virtually anything that is oldish (or, in the case of Rolex brand new) and it is now an "investment". My collection of garage thermometers is an example. I grew up in a Ford garage (we never had a Jaguar) and loved looking at the Goodyear one on the wall. I paid at the most £75 for them, and they are £500 now. So I don't buy them any more. I'm selling off stuff bit by bit before the kids throw it in the bin when I have turned up my toes. Just posted to an auction house are three brochures that cost me nowt. MCLaren Ft, F1 enamel lapel badge, and a Lotus 11 brochure I found in a magazine I was given. Might buy me one bottle of 2000 Chateau Petrus.
They absolutely do Lowdrag but not in 160000 cars a year numbers. Out of that number probably what? 4000 may be people like that? Then a chunk of people that just like the car, a chunk of people that want a “British” car and a chunk of company car buyers that have to buy from a list etc. We have to recognise that for many buying a car is no different to buying a fridge or a TV.
lowdrag said:
Touring442 said:
craigjm said:
Have you ever bought a car because of something the car company did 70 years ago? D
But people do so. It maybe fond memories of picnics with grandad and grandma, it might be because they paid him 10/- to wash the car or it might be a friend's Dad's car. People want to relive their youth and have the means to do so. Just look at virtually anything that is oldish (or, in the case of Rolex brand new) and it is now an "investment". My collection of garage thermometers is an example. I grew up in a Ford garage (we never had a Jaguar) and loved looking at the Goodyear one on the wall. I paid at the most £75 for them, and they are £500 now. So I don't buy them any more. I'm selling off stuff bit by bit before the kids throw it in the bin when I have turned up my toes. Just posted to an auction house are three brochures that cost me nowt. MCLaren Ft, F1 enamel lapel badge, and a Lotus 11 brochure I found in a magazine I was given. Might buy me one bottle of 2000 Chateau Petrus.
craigjm said:
TWe have to recognise that for many buying a car is no different to buying a fridge or a TV.
Can't speak for other parts of the world, but for buying a new car in the UK that's not in the slightest bit the case. When I want to buy a fridge of a TV I can go to Currys or John Lewis or some such and there will be rows of product and half the time I won't have any idea which is made by whom until I look at the small print. For a car I have to chose to go to the dealer for that manufacture of car.
So either people go to the dealer which is convenient, the OkeyKoky dealer's just around the corner, I'll go there
or they chose which dealer to go to. Very few people drag around that many dealers. Life's too short and if to you a car is no more exciting than a fridge or TV, then cars are far too boring to want to drag around looking at too many - Even online.
So most people won't chose from across the whole spectrum of availability, they'll chose from a short list and manufactures are in the game of getting onto the shortlist. Halo models are mostly about attracting run of the mill customers into the showroom, whether that halo model is a current one or something from your back catalogue it doesn't matter, they're bait and they trying to hook the bored and the dreamers (kids who'll grow up to want a car one day).
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