Help Facel Vega, Facel 2
Discussion
Tom hk said:
Is anyone with a Facel attending the Castle Hill car festival near Barnstaple the first Saturday and Sunday of August looks like it is going to be a very good event .
No but I was at Sarlat in france this weekend where there were two very nice convertable facels,a Facellia and a Facel III.As well as many Delage and even perhaps one real Bugatti [amongst the five present !]Hi Tom hk,
I'll be at Filleigh on August 3rd, and possibly the 4th. I'm not bringing a Facel this time, but will be there in an even rarer car. No-one has ever heard of it, but if you head to the most outlandish white car (probably with a huge crowd around it) that will be me! I'm happy to talk "Facel" all day...
I'll be at Filleigh on August 3rd, and possibly the 4th. I'm not bringing a Facel this time, but will be there in an even rarer car. No-one has ever heard of it, but if you head to the most outlandish white car (probably with a huge crowd around it) that will be me! I'm happy to talk "Facel" all day...
justin-banks said:
Its now back from a lengthy but sensitive restoration, the number plate should look familiar to some! looks great, drives really well, first time out after 10 years of slumber, constant rain at the C&SC party, ho hum, well I did buy it to use it!
Well as I suspected the Facel II of Mr Starkey is up for sale after its fairly quick turnaround.... , http://automobile.challenges.fr/actu-auto/20131003...Hi Tom,
Yes, all my cars are UK RHD examples, Facel II x2, Excellence, Facellia Convertible and the rarest of all is the only surviving RHD Facellia 2+2 Coupe.
I have put the Ringo car up for sale to finance all the other restorations! My other Facel II is actually an Auto car finished in Blue with Cream which I actually prefer driving to the Manual Ringo car.
I will keep you posted as they get back on the road.
Justin
Yes, all my cars are UK RHD examples, Facel II x2, Excellence, Facellia Convertible and the rarest of all is the only surviving RHD Facellia 2+2 Coupe.
I have put the Ringo car up for sale to finance all the other restorations! My other Facel II is actually an Auto car finished in Blue with Cream which I actually prefer driving to the Manual Ringo car.
I will keep you posted as they get back on the road.
Justin
One day while discussing exotic automobiles the name Facel Vega came up and my client informed me that he owned the original 1959 Show Car that he purchased off the stand at Earls Court (The Annual Motor Show was originally held at Earls Court in London), apparently it was painted light duck egg blue, a deal was made on condition that the car was repainted in British Racing Green before delivery to the purchaser. This was a special edition fitted with hand built 361 cubic inch Mopar V8 engine with Dupont manual transmission. The brakes had been upgraded to Dunlop disc brakes all round probably due to the serious complaints of inadequate braking made by purchasers of the earlier models.
The standard engine displacement for Mopar at that time was in fact a 383 cubic inch however while experimenting the R & D had discovered that a shorter stroke crank and double Carter 4 carrel carburetors gave far superior performance and this configuration ultimately ended up powering the Model HK500.
My first reaction when he told me that I could have car was to think of excuses why I could not have it. My reasoning being that parts for this car were exclusive and expensive meaning that I would not be able to maintain it properly. However this turned out to be a total misunderstanding, when he offered I was anticipating a negotiation for an acceptable price to ensue however it wasn’t like that. The car was stranded in London and incarcerated at an impound lot as a result of an accident several months earlier and a horrendous storage charge had been presented. .Apparently this storage charge was fictitious and I could have the car for free if I could arrive at a settlement figure with the operator of the storage lot.
It appears the owner’s son had unofficially borrowed the HK500 to attend a function in the City of London and had been involved in an accident which had written off a small Ford and seriously folded back the front fender and headlamps on the Facel. By some miracle the handmade sculptured polished stainless steel front bumper and grill had escaped even the smallest blemish, very fortunate considering that even back in 1970 it would have cost ₤2,000.00 to replace the front bumper.
On investigation into the reason for the astronomical storage charge it transpires that the business owner was also a Classic Car enthusiast and was very intent on obtaining the vehicle for himself, this combined with a reluctance on the part of the owners son to ‘own up’ to the fate of the car had resulted in a long stay at an excessive rate. Ultimately a heated discussion leading to the intervention of the local constabulary resulted in my being able to pry this fabulous car from the clutches of a fellow collector.
Apparently my paperwork was all in order legal and beyond reproach and we were allowed to take possession.
On returning to the workshop repairs to the damaged front wing were undertaken immediately in order to facilitate steering the car around the shop. Suddenly we had a major problem it appeared that the front wings had been manufactured out of recycled armor plated material which was unresponsive to normal panel beating. Normal Porto-Power even had a problem to work and eventually it was obvious that the only way that we could rework this material to shape was by heating it to cherry red paneling by hammer quenching and lead loading.
To have manufactured the body shape originally must have been a real work of craftsman, in a lifetime of restoration and repair this is the only time I have encountered material so hard to work. The other headache that we encountered was the electrical wiring; no one was able to provide any wiring diagram or the slightest information regarding the proper components. However one day while removing trim panels for restoration I discovered a plastic folder inside containing the original designers diagrams and notes of the installation in French written in pencil and coloured crayon.
When the car was finally repainted (purple) and fully checked out and ready the first road test proved to be very enlightening. The performance proved to be very satisfactory and the braking appeared by the standards of the day to be a vast improvement over the majority of large sports cars of that period. However there was one area that proved most disappointing and that was the tires particularly in wet conditions. The car was originally fitted with spoke wire wheels with rather narrow rim widths (4.5J) which seriously restricted the size of the tire and contact area. As a result the slightest moisture on the road surface resulted in limited adhesion and unpredictable handling. As there was nothing immediately available on the market to cure this problem it was arranged to have a set of custom built steel wheels manufactured to mount onto the splined hubs and produce 7 x 15 rears with 6 x 15 fronts. With later technology wide aspect tires fitted this absolutely transformed the car into a vehicle you really drive to its limits and live to drive another day.
The only compromise was the necessity to extend the wheel arches to accommodate the larger section tires and because of the unique styling the arches tended to make the car look more macho!
After several months of pleasure blasting this ‘Street-rod’ around I decided to sell the car mainly because I had heard several stories about the Dupont transmission being weak in first and second gear and if this damage occurred it would be virtually impossible to repair due to the unavailability of parts.
A buyer was quickly found and the car disappeared for a short while, subsequently I received a phone call at my workshop to the effect “would you know where I can get parts to repair a Dupont Transmission?”
As a result the car was parked outside the new owner’s house and the road tax allowed to expire and then moved onto his front garden. At the time a City Ordinance prohibited parking of any vehicles on Council property. Therefore an official notice was sent to the owner notifying him that ‘If he didn’t move the car forthwith the council would do that service for him and send a bill for transporting and disposing of the vehicle’. This resulted in a huge temper tantrum where upon he cut the car into small pieces with a welding torch to get his own back on the council, that’s how the legend goes.
The standard engine displacement for Mopar at that time was in fact a 383 cubic inch however while experimenting the R & D had discovered that a shorter stroke crank and double Carter 4 carrel carburetors gave far superior performance and this configuration ultimately ended up powering the Model HK500.
My first reaction when he told me that I could have car was to think of excuses why I could not have it. My reasoning being that parts for this car were exclusive and expensive meaning that I would not be able to maintain it properly. However this turned out to be a total misunderstanding, when he offered I was anticipating a negotiation for an acceptable price to ensue however it wasn’t like that. The car was stranded in London and incarcerated at an impound lot as a result of an accident several months earlier and a horrendous storage charge had been presented. .Apparently this storage charge was fictitious and I could have the car for free if I could arrive at a settlement figure with the operator of the storage lot.
It appears the owner’s son had unofficially borrowed the HK500 to attend a function in the City of London and had been involved in an accident which had written off a small Ford and seriously folded back the front fender and headlamps on the Facel. By some miracle the handmade sculptured polished stainless steel front bumper and grill had escaped even the smallest blemish, very fortunate considering that even back in 1970 it would have cost ₤2,000.00 to replace the front bumper.
On investigation into the reason for the astronomical storage charge it transpires that the business owner was also a Classic Car enthusiast and was very intent on obtaining the vehicle for himself, this combined with a reluctance on the part of the owners son to ‘own up’ to the fate of the car had resulted in a long stay at an excessive rate. Ultimately a heated discussion leading to the intervention of the local constabulary resulted in my being able to pry this fabulous car from the clutches of a fellow collector.
Apparently my paperwork was all in order legal and beyond reproach and we were allowed to take possession.
On returning to the workshop repairs to the damaged front wing were undertaken immediately in order to facilitate steering the car around the shop. Suddenly we had a major problem it appeared that the front wings had been manufactured out of recycled armor plated material which was unresponsive to normal panel beating. Normal Porto-Power even had a problem to work and eventually it was obvious that the only way that we could rework this material to shape was by heating it to cherry red paneling by hammer quenching and lead loading.
To have manufactured the body shape originally must have been a real work of craftsman, in a lifetime of restoration and repair this is the only time I have encountered material so hard to work. The other headache that we encountered was the electrical wiring; no one was able to provide any wiring diagram or the slightest information regarding the proper components. However one day while removing trim panels for restoration I discovered a plastic folder inside containing the original designers diagrams and notes of the installation in French written in pencil and coloured crayon.
When the car was finally repainted (purple) and fully checked out and ready the first road test proved to be very enlightening. The performance proved to be very satisfactory and the braking appeared by the standards of the day to be a vast improvement over the majority of large sports cars of that period. However there was one area that proved most disappointing and that was the tires particularly in wet conditions. The car was originally fitted with spoke wire wheels with rather narrow rim widths (4.5J) which seriously restricted the size of the tire and contact area. As a result the slightest moisture on the road surface resulted in limited adhesion and unpredictable handling. As there was nothing immediately available on the market to cure this problem it was arranged to have a set of custom built steel wheels manufactured to mount onto the splined hubs and produce 7 x 15 rears with 6 x 15 fronts. With later technology wide aspect tires fitted this absolutely transformed the car into a vehicle you really drive to its limits and live to drive another day.
The only compromise was the necessity to extend the wheel arches to accommodate the larger section tires and because of the unique styling the arches tended to make the car look more macho!
After several months of pleasure blasting this ‘Street-rod’ around I decided to sell the car mainly because I had heard several stories about the Dupont transmission being weak in first and second gear and if this damage occurred it would be virtually impossible to repair due to the unavailability of parts.
A buyer was quickly found and the car disappeared for a short while, subsequently I received a phone call at my workshop to the effect “would you know where I can get parts to repair a Dupont Transmission?”
As a result the car was parked outside the new owner’s house and the road tax allowed to expire and then moved onto his front garden. At the time a City Ordinance prohibited parking of any vehicles on Council property. Therefore an official notice was sent to the owner notifying him that ‘If he didn’t move the car forthwith the council would do that service for him and send a bill for transporting and disposing of the vehicle’. This resulted in a huge temper tantrum where upon he cut the car into small pieces with a welding torch to get his own back on the council, that’s how the legend goes.
I cannot personally vouch for the execution of this vehicle as I was not present, its seems hardly likely that the owner was daft enough to commit such a stupid act considering the value and rarity of many of its components, so I am hoping it turns up as a barn-find in the Castle-Bromwich area of B'ham someday. I am still on the lookout. 
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