S2 TT Supercharger alternatives?
Discussion
Come on guy's aren't we getting away from where the Elise concept started !
An affordable sports car that had the handling and style of something twice the price.......performance is lacking but for the Lotus boys to keep the price down they opted for the cheap engine option.
If you wanted more power the owner usually (as I did) went and paid for the extra's.
I agree there is a hole in the Lotus line, but the plug isn't a more power full Elise, if I was spending that money I would at least want more storage, easier entry, better aerodynamics and a slightly larger wheel base to match the speed the car should be capable of, with more power on tap - the M250 never got a chance to prove that.
The USA market is a risk for Lotus but it will make them or kill them - time will tell !
If a re power is required, why not give the K series a birthday or redesign - create a British R Type engine, (with more torque please) maybe with a supercharger ($$$$ again)to get it too a reliable 240 + HP. I'm sure the other british manufactures would snap it up ?
An affordable sports car that had the handling and style of something twice the price.......performance is lacking but for the Lotus boys to keep the price down they opted for the cheap engine option.
If you wanted more power the owner usually (as I did) went and paid for the extra's.
I agree there is a hole in the Lotus line, but the plug isn't a more power full Elise, if I was spending that money I would at least want more storage, easier entry, better aerodynamics and a slightly larger wheel base to match the speed the car should be capable of, with more power on tap - the M250 never got a chance to prove that.
The USA market is a risk for Lotus but it will make them or kill them - time will tell !
If a re power is required, why not give the K series a birthday or redesign - create a British R Type engine, (with more torque please) maybe with a supercharger ($$$$ again)to get it too a reliable 240 + HP. I'm sure the other british manufactures would snap it up ?
I think Lotus is getting away from where the Elise started, its now getting "middle aged with spread". I believe its gained too much weight. It is no longer the svelt "less weight - more power" machine.
The Elise (nor the Esprit for that matter) was never meant to be a "practical car" boot space was enough for travel bags and that was it. Back to basics was the original concept but its moving away from that.
The Elise chasis is capable of making an afordable supercar to replace the Esprit, but Lotus have decided not to take that route and to try the American Market. I believe this is a really bad idea. Lotus do not have the support of the American public it will always be an oddety (eg pretty woman - "thats a lotus...the pedals are close together and it has a stick shift")
If you're going to do well in America you need a car which is well known (Esprit did well 'cos of James Bond). At the moment Lotus are unheard of, they have their own one-make series 'cos they have no car to race in any other series. There are no major films containing Lotus products. It will arrive in America and only people "in the know" will even know its arrived and how good the car is.
Its wise to build foundations before trying to build your castle. The Elise in England did very well in its time, Lotus produced exactly what the customers wanted an affordable, different, sports car. The other manufacturers have caught up and IMHO some are already overtaking. (eg Noble M12). By concentrating on America I believe not only will they be unsucessful in the USA but also back here in Blighty.
I love Lotus, but I must be honest when I can next afford the performance car I want, I don't think Lotus will be able to provide.
The Elise (nor the Esprit for that matter) was never meant to be a "practical car" boot space was enough for travel bags and that was it. Back to basics was the original concept but its moving away from that.
The Elise chasis is capable of making an afordable supercar to replace the Esprit, but Lotus have decided not to take that route and to try the American Market. I believe this is a really bad idea. Lotus do not have the support of the American public it will always be an oddety (eg pretty woman - "thats a lotus...the pedals are close together and it has a stick shift")
If you're going to do well in America you need a car which is well known (Esprit did well 'cos of James Bond). At the moment Lotus are unheard of, they have their own one-make series 'cos they have no car to race in any other series. There are no major films containing Lotus products. It will arrive in America and only people "in the know" will even know its arrived and how good the car is.
Its wise to build foundations before trying to build your castle. The Elise in England did very well in its time, Lotus produced exactly what the customers wanted an affordable, different, sports car. The other manufacturers have caught up and IMHO some are already overtaking. (eg Noble M12). By concentrating on America I believe not only will they be unsucessful in the USA but also back here in Blighty.
I love Lotus, but I must be honest when I can next afford the performance car I want, I don't think Lotus will be able to provide.
Hmm, very interesting I've just read this entire thread. I will start my reply but might not be able to finish.
To start with I have owned an Elise S1 std with sport exhaust and better air filters in it. I did 23k in this car (at about 12k I put a deposit on an M250 - different story really but still relevant). Like most of you I wanted more power. So early on I test drove the B&C 220 turbo, not having much experience at the time I thought this car was the dogs (although the entire characteristics of the car had changed)! I also drove the B&C 160, which seemed to me very little improvement over the std Elise. Then a little while later (and a few track days) I drove a very well sorted sport 135 back to with a VVC, despite what other people's view's I thought the VVC was a close second to the 135, but that was just for me, other people preferred the VVC. I think the VVC was certainly smoother and less 'racy'. In my opinion the 135 was more about what the Elise is about.
So I was now still in a dilemma as to what to do with my car do I upgrade it and keep running it? I seemed to be fairly sure I wanted more power. I had decided that (in my opinion) that a turbo charger would ruin the original feel of the car and also a supercharger may well do as well (although I've never driven a supercharged Elise to be fair). Certainly one conclusion I came to was if I did anything other than a Lotus approved mod I would not regain any of the costs incurred in the upgrade when and if I came to sell the car. People don't like to buy modified cars on the whole, unless it's a fully recognised mod etc.
Then I had the opportunity to test an Elise 160 and Exige 177. By this time my car had done 23k and had really loosened up. I drove my car back to back with an S1 160 (the 160 had only done 1.5k) the two didn't compare at all. My std car wiped the floor with it (this is to say that the 160 felt now quicker at all). Immediately after on the same day I drove a std Exige (177bhp) this had done about 1k this was a huge improvement on the 160 (and noticeably better than my very well run in and loosened up S1). I decided to buy a 192 Exige (as they no longer did Azure blue paint I had the show room model a fitted with a 192 conversion and sports exhaust As this car was reputed to being the last Azure blue Exige, my Elise was Azure as well).
So 2 weeks later I said fair well to my faithful Elise and Picked up my Exige a few days later. Well what a difference. Where the Elise was very tractable and was happy to pootle along at 3 mph in traffic, the Exige hated this and was often stalling etc when it was being run in and got hot in traffic, this seemed to subside once run in etc. The Exige (or the VHPD engine) is really a very different kettle of fish when compared to the lesser tuned K series engines. It loves having the nut's revved off of it. This is what I really enjoyed, very noisy yes but what a fantastically rewarding drive. My old Elise took a little while to sell (poor thing almost got stolen from the garage - thieves had got hold of the keys somehow during the day and at closing time they were trying to get keys of other cars but got discovered). Also someone in a bus pushed a parked car from the other side of the road into it over a dual carriageway and punched a big hole in the front! Anyway all they guy's selling it said it was easily the fastest std Elise they had driven.
It was at about this time that the M250 project was cancelled and I lost 1500 of my deposit (but this is a different story). I had previously seen a Noble M12 at motor shows and they had said '...ah this car is built and working - your M250 will be a long way off and our car has more power'. I shrugged this off and assumed Lotus would probably up the power of their car as it seemed in direct competition. Then the M250 was cancelled and after a lot of messing about, I got half of my money back (again another story which I think I posted in the past). So I went and test drove a Noble in May last year and put a deposit one ten minutes after the test drive! I then proceeded to feel guilty towards my Exige which I had driven too the test drive in. Since then I did two more track days in the Exige (one at Castle Coombe and one at LLandow in Wales - very small track great for Elise's and Exiges (little bit small for bigger cars)). One that day I got a ride in a proper run in S1 160 Elise which was fantastic, again rough and ready sport car which is what I think the Elise is about.
The Exige without a doubt is track car for the road. It's uncomfortable and noisey but I loved it dearly. I sold it in December last year in expectation of the Noble arriving in March (still hasn't arrived) I really miss the Exige. I'm still having a few doubts about the M12 - being turbo and all. It's due in this country any day now and will be at Noble for 3 weeks or so before I get it. In essence a lot of people think it's a grown up Exige - if it is I will probably love it, but the power band is much lower but probably as large (from about 4.5k rpm to 6.5k rpm as opposed to 5.5 to 7.5 for the Exige - roughly speaking).
Finally (if anyone is still reading this msg!
)I drove to a Westover cars open day on the w/end to watch the GP and look at some car. I went in my brothers Ferrari 360 and although I have driven it before - you easily do a 100 plus on good A road without realizing it feels more like 60-70 or so (very dangerous for you liecense). I test drove a new S2 111s - in anger as well - it's a nice car don't get me wrong but it's lost the original Elise feel I went up and down 'Zig zag Hill' near Blanford (well about 15 miles north)- for those of you don't know it the descrption is in the name! I tried quite hard to get the tail out in the S2 - and all that would happen is that it would either understeer or spin the inside rear. Lotus seem to have made the car more relaxed and (excuse the expression) more 'joe public user friendly' . Still if it had a close ratio box, sports exhaust and slightly wider front tyres it would be a great drive.
The one thing I did feel yesterday was that I can have just as much fun in 25k ish Elise at lower speeds (although it feels fast) as I can in a 100k Ferrari. You could spend loads of money tuning your car but are you going to get all that much more enjoyment out of it or do you need to change the type car your driving. I might well go back to a PTP 220 Exige if I don't like the noble... but there I go again.
I haven’t really come to any conclusion except I think you can’t really change the original engine in the Elise/Exige without changing the whole car’s character. The K series is a very light tuneable engine. But when you start approaching 250 BHP plus it starts to get complicated – the gearbox wont handle much more power with tearing it’s self to pieces and soon after the engine will give up, it’s just designed to be tuned to that state. (I would be intrigued to know if the 300BHP turbo one is still in one piece). I think you will find that the reason the S2 Elise still has a k series is cause there is no other engine out there that suits the purpose as well. I will be test driving a 190 S2 some time in the future I will report back then, but I imagine it might well be similar to the Exige.
Well done if you've read the whole lot!
Guy
To start with I have owned an Elise S1 std with sport exhaust and better air filters in it. I did 23k in this car (at about 12k I put a deposit on an M250 - different story really but still relevant). Like most of you I wanted more power. So early on I test drove the B&C 220 turbo, not having much experience at the time I thought this car was the dogs (although the entire characteristics of the car had changed)! I also drove the B&C 160, which seemed to me very little improvement over the std Elise. Then a little while later (and a few track days) I drove a very well sorted sport 135 back to with a VVC, despite what other people's view's I thought the VVC was a close second to the 135, but that was just for me, other people preferred the VVC. I think the VVC was certainly smoother and less 'racy'. In my opinion the 135 was more about what the Elise is about.
So I was now still in a dilemma as to what to do with my car do I upgrade it and keep running it? I seemed to be fairly sure I wanted more power. I had decided that (in my opinion) that a turbo charger would ruin the original feel of the car and also a supercharger may well do as well (although I've never driven a supercharged Elise to be fair). Certainly one conclusion I came to was if I did anything other than a Lotus approved mod I would not regain any of the costs incurred in the upgrade when and if I came to sell the car. People don't like to buy modified cars on the whole, unless it's a fully recognised mod etc.
Then I had the opportunity to test an Elise 160 and Exige 177. By this time my car had done 23k and had really loosened up. I drove my car back to back with an S1 160 (the 160 had only done 1.5k) the two didn't compare at all. My std car wiped the floor with it (this is to say that the 160 felt now quicker at all). Immediately after on the same day I drove a std Exige (177bhp) this had done about 1k this was a huge improvement on the 160 (and noticeably better than my very well run in and loosened up S1). I decided to buy a 192 Exige (as they no longer did Azure blue paint I had the show room model a fitted with a 192 conversion and sports exhaust As this car was reputed to being the last Azure blue Exige, my Elise was Azure as well).
So 2 weeks later I said fair well to my faithful Elise and Picked up my Exige a few days later. Well what a difference. Where the Elise was very tractable and was happy to pootle along at 3 mph in traffic, the Exige hated this and was often stalling etc when it was being run in and got hot in traffic, this seemed to subside once run in etc. The Exige (or the VHPD engine) is really a very different kettle of fish when compared to the lesser tuned K series engines. It loves having the nut's revved off of it. This is what I really enjoyed, very noisy yes but what a fantastically rewarding drive. My old Elise took a little while to sell (poor thing almost got stolen from the garage - thieves had got hold of the keys somehow during the day and at closing time they were trying to get keys of other cars but got discovered). Also someone in a bus pushed a parked car from the other side of the road into it over a dual carriageway and punched a big hole in the front! Anyway all they guy's selling it said it was easily the fastest std Elise they had driven.
It was at about this time that the M250 project was cancelled and I lost 1500 of my deposit (but this is a different story). I had previously seen a Noble M12 at motor shows and they had said '...ah this car is built and working - your M250 will be a long way off and our car has more power'. I shrugged this off and assumed Lotus would probably up the power of their car as it seemed in direct competition. Then the M250 was cancelled and after a lot of messing about, I got half of my money back (again another story which I think I posted in the past). So I went and test drove a Noble in May last year and put a deposit one ten minutes after the test drive! I then proceeded to feel guilty towards my Exige which I had driven too the test drive in. Since then I did two more track days in the Exige (one at Castle Coombe and one at LLandow in Wales - very small track great for Elise's and Exiges (little bit small for bigger cars)). One that day I got a ride in a proper run in S1 160 Elise which was fantastic, again rough and ready sport car which is what I think the Elise is about.
The Exige without a doubt is track car for the road. It's uncomfortable and noisey but I loved it dearly. I sold it in December last year in expectation of the Noble arriving in March (still hasn't arrived) I really miss the Exige. I'm still having a few doubts about the M12 - being turbo and all. It's due in this country any day now and will be at Noble for 3 weeks or so before I get it. In essence a lot of people think it's a grown up Exige - if it is I will probably love it, but the power band is much lower but probably as large (from about 4.5k rpm to 6.5k rpm as opposed to 5.5 to 7.5 for the Exige - roughly speaking).
Finally (if anyone is still reading this msg!
)I drove to a Westover cars open day on the w/end to watch the GP and look at some car. I went in my brothers Ferrari 360 and although I have driven it before - you easily do a 100 plus on good A road without realizing it feels more like 60-70 or so (very dangerous for you liecense). I test drove a new S2 111s - in anger as well - it's a nice car don't get me wrong but it's lost the original Elise feel I went up and down 'Zig zag Hill' near Blanford (well about 15 miles north)- for those of you don't know it the descrption is in the name! I tried quite hard to get the tail out in the S2 - and all that would happen is that it would either understeer or spin the inside rear. Lotus seem to have made the car more relaxed and (excuse the expression) more 'joe public user friendly' . Still if it had a close ratio box, sports exhaust and slightly wider front tyres it would be a great drive. The one thing I did feel yesterday was that I can have just as much fun in 25k ish Elise at lower speeds (although it feels fast) as I can in a 100k Ferrari. You could spend loads of money tuning your car but are you going to get all that much more enjoyment out of it or do you need to change the type car your driving. I might well go back to a PTP 220 Exige if I don't like the noble... but there I go again.
I haven’t really come to any conclusion except I think you can’t really change the original engine in the Elise/Exige without changing the whole car’s character. The K series is a very light tuneable engine. But when you start approaching 250 BHP plus it starts to get complicated – the gearbox wont handle much more power with tearing it’s self to pieces and soon after the engine will give up, it’s just designed to be tuned to that state. (I would be intrigued to know if the 300BHP turbo one is still in one piece). I think you will find that the reason the S2 Elise still has a k series is cause there is no other engine out there that suits the purpose as well. I will be test driving a 190 S2 some time in the future I will report back then, but I imagine it might well be similar to the Exige.
Well done if you've read the whole lot!
Guy
I did read it all Guy – thanks very much and I tend to agree. Getting back to the original topic If I may, It's just over a week since I test drove the TT190 S2 Demonstrator and I'm beginning to have a few doubts. The main nagging doubt is the way the car behaved on over-run - that odd chugging on a closed throttle when decelerating.
Again, any S2 TT190 owners out there care to comment on this characteristic? Do your cars behave in the same manner. The other thing is that after my first track day at Hethel I came away with such a big grin that I doubt would have been any better if I had been in the 355 this Italian Chap who was visiting the factory brought along for a spin.
One thing I am convinced of is that the TT190 does transform the car – to a faster and also more relaxing drive. I also tend to think that a normally aspirated conversion with extra power at the expense of torque will (1) increase the risk of failure and (2) will not really give any benefit except on the track. And It’s not as if I do track days every weekend – I only plan two or three a year.
No real conclusions – but I guess if I wanted a Boxster I should have bought one.
Cheers
Julian
Again, any S2 TT190 owners out there care to comment on this characteristic? Do your cars behave in the same manner. The other thing is that after my first track day at Hethel I came away with such a big grin that I doubt would have been any better if I had been in the 355 this Italian Chap who was visiting the factory brought along for a spin.
One thing I am convinced of is that the TT190 does transform the car – to a faster and also more relaxing drive. I also tend to think that a normally aspirated conversion with extra power at the expense of torque will (1) increase the risk of failure and (2) will not really give any benefit except on the track. And It’s not as if I do track days every weekend – I only plan two or three a year.
No real conclusions – but I guess if I wanted a Boxster I should have bought one.
Cheers
Julian
quote:
Ultimatly there is no 'one' car that does everything!
But what you have to consider is that for the price range the new 111s is starting to break into, there are cars that do alot better at this compromise than the Elise.
At 30k, build quality niggles and certainly performance are more important than ever. I could only see a Lotus enthusiast putting up with it, not anyone else who knows the luxury sports car market.
But I think the worst thing is how Lotus are marketing this - as a rep mobile? Is that the only thing they could come up with?
OK, this was posted before, but here goes again; the Elise and the Exige were built for a light weight 4 cilinder engine. Not 6 or 8. In my opinion though Lotus made a mistake choosing the Rover K series... Simply not a performance engine. And most people will tune this engine in one way or another to get more power from it. That alone proves my point. Although Lotus makes good money selling tuning kits ofcourse...
I'm convinced Honda's B series VTEC engines suit the Elise/Exige chassis perfectly. Forget SunInternational (www.sunspeed.com), check out www.prototyperacing.com ! I will soon replace that aging Rover Kseries with a Honda K20A (200hp STANDARD - can you spell RELIABLE?). I already have the engine waiting, anyone interested in a well run-in Rover?
I'm convinced Honda's B series VTEC engines suit the Elise/Exige chassis perfectly. Forget SunInternational (www.sunspeed.com), check out www.prototyperacing.com ! I will soon replace that aging Rover Kseries with a Honda K20A (200hp STANDARD - can you spell RELIABLE?). I already have the engine waiting, anyone interested in a well run-in Rover?
I have a TT230 in an S1 elise so not directly comparable to a 190 in an S2, but...
It is now run in and I have just done my first track day. The engine is running faultlessly (touch wood). The temperature is constant in town or out on track and it has used no oil in 600 miles. The performance is fantastic, it can almost (!) stay with a 911 GT2 in straight line up to 110ish. Handling is obviously petty much the same as standard although it's a bit easier to get the tail moving under the power. I haven't experienced your chugging on the overrun, but I haven't really been listening for it.
On the whole, it's fantastic. Transforms the car with little downside (so far). Buy one, you know it makes sense...
It is now run in and I have just done my first track day. The engine is running faultlessly (touch wood). The temperature is constant in town or out on track and it has used no oil in 600 miles. The performance is fantastic, it can almost (!) stay with a 911 GT2 in straight line up to 110ish. Handling is obviously petty much the same as standard although it's a bit easier to get the tail moving under the power. I haven't experienced your chugging on the overrun, but I haven't really been listening for it.
On the whole, it's fantastic. Transforms the car with little downside (so far). Buy one, you know it makes sense...
quote:
OK, this was posted before, but here goes again; the Elise and the Exige were built for a light weight 4 cilinder engine. Not 6 or 8.
Okay so WHY did Lotus produce the GT1 Elise with V8 power for the GT race series, when they could have used the Esprit?
I believe the answer Lotus gave was that the elise chasis was a much better base to start on the GT1 car.
There is a BIG clue that Lotus have got it wrong: lots of people modify the Elise to get more power including bigger engines, so why don't Lotus produce a bigger engined car?
For a small company this would be the way forward, they already have the jigs and deigns R&D would be significantly reduced as they could litually buy cars from the seperate engine tuners and then work their magic to produce a better version of their own.
PeeJay, let me know how you get on, I'm thinking the same thing, although the rover has a nice constant power delivery, you can't beat more HP's.
Haven't heard the 2 ltr being installed as yet (will it fit) I knoe Proto racing are giving it a go.
Are you getting kit ?
If so which ?
If not how are you going to deal with the rotation problem (reverse to the R Type B18C ?
And the gear change mechanism ??
Good luck & report back
Haven't heard the 2 ltr being installed as yet (will it fit) I knoe Proto racing are giving it a go.
Are you getting kit ?
If so which ?
If not how are you going to deal with the rotation problem (reverse to the R Type B18C ?
And the gear change mechanism ??
Good luck & report back
quote:
PeeJay, let me know how you get on, I'm thinking the same thing, although the rover has a nice constant power delivery, you can't beat more HP's.
Not sure on this - still coming to terms with the implications of power v's torque - and the stuff on elises.co.uk goes some way to explaining this but from what I understand it's torque we are after for road driving - hence the desire for V6s/8s and superchargers.
Julian
Please, guys, get serious now... Are we really comparing the Lotus GT1, Ferrari Modena or Pagani Zonda to our Elises? 
Smeagol, you wrote: lots of people modify the Elise to get more power including bigger engines
Sure, that's true. That many people modify the Rover to get more power proved my point as well - that Lotus was wrong choosing the Rover engine in the first place! And dropping the Rover for a bigger (heavier!!) engine doesn't seem smart to me. The Elise's handling was fine-tuned using the light-weight 4 cilinder Rover. Drop in a heavier engine and the handling of the car WILL be affected negatively.
Kiwi LE: i regularly communicate with Prototype Racing regarding their progress. Things are coming along nicely. Check their site - you'll see that the K20A fits very nicely in the Exige - which BTW i sourced and shipped for them.
As for your questions re. the rotation, gearchange mechanism etc. - i'm leaving all that to the very capable people of Prototype Racing. I'm convinced they'll create a very professional kit. Believe it or not, Prototype Racing is in fact the company behind the SunInternational Honda conversion!
On a final note: tuning the Rover K series is ofcourse an option. But i haven't yet seen one tuned Rover (and i mean 180hp upwards) that's 100% reliable. If you guys really believe that a tuned Rover will last 100.000 kms without any hiccups, you're pretty optimistic. I've seen 1 supercharged Rover which needed a full rebuild (don't know after how many kms though), a 180hp Rover with a broken crankshaft, torn off exhaust manifolds and busted headgaskets, overheating engines etc etc. And then there's always the comments about how tuned Rovers don't idle well, are a nightmare in the city, basically only useful on the track etc.
I don't want all that headache. I'm going for at least 200 Honda HP, and i know (by experience) that these engines will not fail, no matter how hard you try... Don't want to have to drive more careful because my engine is tuned and might break.
I plan to sell as many kits for Prototype Racing as i can, so when the conversion is done i hope to visit the UK as often as possible to showcase the conversion. I'll keep you posted.
Smeagol, you wrote: lots of people modify the Elise to get more power including bigger engines
Sure, that's true. That many people modify the Rover to get more power proved my point as well - that Lotus was wrong choosing the Rover engine in the first place! And dropping the Rover for a bigger (heavier!!) engine doesn't seem smart to me. The Elise's handling was fine-tuned using the light-weight 4 cilinder Rover. Drop in a heavier engine and the handling of the car WILL be affected negatively.
Kiwi LE: i regularly communicate with Prototype Racing regarding their progress. Things are coming along nicely. Check their site - you'll see that the K20A fits very nicely in the Exige - which BTW i sourced and shipped for them.
As for your questions re. the rotation, gearchange mechanism etc. - i'm leaving all that to the very capable people of Prototype Racing. I'm convinced they'll create a very professional kit. Believe it or not, Prototype Racing is in fact the company behind the SunInternational Honda conversion!
On a final note: tuning the Rover K series is ofcourse an option. But i haven't yet seen one tuned Rover (and i mean 180hp upwards) that's 100% reliable. If you guys really believe that a tuned Rover will last 100.000 kms without any hiccups, you're pretty optimistic. I've seen 1 supercharged Rover which needed a full rebuild (don't know after how many kms though), a 180hp Rover with a broken crankshaft, torn off exhaust manifolds and busted headgaskets, overheating engines etc etc. And then there's always the comments about how tuned Rovers don't idle well, are a nightmare in the city, basically only useful on the track etc.
I don't want all that headache. I'm going for at least 200 Honda HP, and i know (by experience) that these engines will not fail, no matter how hard you try... Don't want to have to drive more careful because my engine is tuned and might break.
I plan to sell as many kits for Prototype Racing as i can, so when the conversion is done i hope to visit the UK as often as possible to showcase the conversion. I'll keep you posted.
Roadrunner: that Esthi is absolutely very impressive, but: the car now weighs around 1000 kgs. Guess where the majority of the weight increase is? Does it still have that wonderful handling that made the Elise what it is?
They claim a new top speed of 315 km/hr. I seriously doubt that they actually drove at that speed without improving the car's aerodynamics.
Then look at the price (95000 Euro)
And then realise that the Honda K20A or F20C can be reliably tuned to about 270-280 hp, giving exactly the same power-to-weight ratio as the Esthi conversion. My money is on the Honda conversion and i think it would embarrass the Esthi on a track.
They claim a new top speed of 315 km/hr. I seriously doubt that they actually drove at that speed without improving the car's aerodynamics.
Then look at the price (95000 Euro)
And then realise that the Honda K20A or F20C can be reliably tuned to about 270-280 hp, giving exactly the same power-to-weight ratio as the Esthi conversion. My money is on the Honda conversion and i think it would embarrass the Esthi on a track.
quote:
Drop in a heavier engine and the handling of the car WILL be affected negatively.
If you leave everything else the same of course it will. BUT the point is that Lotus could fit a bigger engine and get it to handle as well as the first. Plus its easier to build on something you've already got than redesign a completely new car. Could I point out that the M250 used the Elise Chassis, and that had a bigger engine in it, so Lotus can do it.
You are quite right the Rover engine is underpowered and Lotus probably chose the wrong engine. But saying that the Elise is not capable of having a bigger engine is wrong.
The points that have been raised here is that there is a whole customer base like myself that don't want an Esprit and feel that the Elise/Exige is underpowered. Lotus should be looking at this market gap and one solution would be to produce a "super Elise" with a lot more power. There is an awful lot to be said by putting a V6 or V8 in, the sound is just one aspect. At the moment there is nothing from Lotus that is 300bhp+ except the v6 mentioned in the other thread.
Lotus, get back on the island. Stop swimming about in the deep. There must be loads of engines around there which are light weight and produce more power than the K. Audi TT, only a 1.8 220 bhp etc. I know there are issues with weight, size and cooling, but there must be some engineers somewhere who work at Lotus. Get it sorted. If not give me a job there and I will sort them out.
As many people have said in this topic, there are many people out there who would trade in their cars for a more powerful elise. I indeed bought a TVR instead due to this issue. So ok the elise is nippy around the 30 mph round-a-bout, but get onto a bit of straight and a vetra will pass you......nuff said.
Dave
As many people have said in this topic, there are many people out there who would trade in their cars for a more powerful elise. I indeed bought a TVR instead due to this issue. So ok the elise is nippy around the 30 mph round-a-bout, but get onto a bit of straight and a vetra will pass you......nuff said.
Dave
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