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PJ, I'm sure a lighter elise will be faster on the track, but only through the twisties. Anyway, the RS4 engine is only in standard trim. A small chip is all that's required for 500bhp. You'd never catch the thing on the roads - which is where it'll be for 99% of the time. At the end of the day if all your bothered about is track speed a 7 rip-off for a few quid will beat anything.
Lotus did not build the Elise to be fast in a straight line. Want to go fast in a straight line then how's this: Chevrolet builds something called a CorvetteZ06. Has a wonderful V8 (400lb/ft torque) and will crap on anything in a straight line (0-6mph in 4.0 secs).
Honestly, do we really get any satisfaction from out-accelerating another car in a straight line? Not me... Out-braking, faster cornering, yes please.
BTW Roadrunner - an Elise with Honda powertrain not only makes a ligher Elise than the Esthi, but a lighter Elise with the same power/weight ratio as the Esthi. Something tells me it'll be as quick as the Esthi in a straight line... And quicker through the twisties. I see your point about the 7 though. Although i prefer my Elise...
Honestly, do we really get any satisfaction from out-accelerating another car in a straight line? Not me... Out-braking, faster cornering, yes please.
BTW Roadrunner - an Elise with Honda powertrain not only makes a ligher Elise than the Esthi, but a lighter Elise with the same power/weight ratio as the Esthi. Something tells me it'll be as quick as the Esthi in a straight line... And quicker through the twisties. I see your point about the 7 though. Although i prefer my Elise...
quote:
Lotus did not build the Elise to be fast in a straight line.
No they didn't but you'd expect a sports car to at least outperform a bog standard saloon. You have already admitted that you are fitting another engine 'cos the Elise is underpowered. So why don't Lotus produce something that will perform superbly? The esprit did and thats got a V8.
The fact is a bog standard Elise can be beaten on the track by the latest crop of hot hatches. It's a bit embarrassing isn't it?
All the car companies have pushed forward in performance and price terms but Lotus seem to be either standing still or going backwards. The Elise was a revelation 6 years ago but it just hasn't been developed properly.
People complained about the lack of power when it was launched, I think people didn't push the fact because they assumed it would be corrected, which to be honest it never was.
But here we are 6 years down the road and the Elise is fatter and still as underpowered as ever. Worst of all is the fact the price is now completely ludicrous and is competing with cars way ahead of it in terms of quality and power. It's now just not worth it.....
>> Edited by adeewuff on Thursday 11th July 13:28
All the car companies have pushed forward in performance and price terms but Lotus seem to be either standing still or going backwards. The Elise was a revelation 6 years ago but it just hasn't been developed properly.
People complained about the lack of power when it was launched, I think people didn't push the fact because they assumed it would be corrected, which to be honest it never was.
But here we are 6 years down the road and the Elise is fatter and still as underpowered as ever. Worst of all is the fact the price is now completely ludicrous and is competing with cars way ahead of it in terms of quality and power. It's now just not worth it.....
>> Edited by adeewuff on Thursday 11th July 13:28
and is it still fun when a vectra passes you?
Adee has hit the nail on the head. I was lent the Exige as a curtesy car whilst the M100 elan was being serviced. I had it all day, I think the theory was that I would like the Exige that much I would buy it. I was expecting something out of the ordinary but it wasn't. I got out and thought what a disappointing car and certainly not trade in the Elan.
For £30k a stripped down racing car should knock the spots off any saloon or hot hatch.
Adee has hit the nail on the head. I was lent the Exige as a curtesy car whilst the M100 elan was being serviced. I had it all day, I think the theory was that I would like the Exige that much I would buy it. I was expecting something out of the ordinary but it wasn't. I got out and thought what a disappointing car and certainly not trade in the Elan.
For £30k a stripped down racing car should knock the spots off any saloon or hot hatch.
quote:
If you can let a Vectra pass you whilst driving an Exige then may I suggest you are not driving it hard enough!
Well no I didn't and yes I gave it some welly just to see if I was missing something (I wasn't), but doesn't it bother you that Vectra could overtake you when it wanted (save you weaving all over the road).
I think you're missing the point, the fact of the matter is as adee has said Lotus are not moving the Elise on. It was underpowered and still is, except now the other manufacturers have caught up and passed them.
>> Edited by smeagol on Thursday 11th July 16:31
Smeagol, I'm glad you like your Elan, and I'm sorry that you find rear wheel drive cars so difficult to enjoy. I like my Elise very much, so we should both be happy.
However, asinine comments like
show that we have very little in common otherwise, so I'll bow out of this 'debate'.
However, asinine comments like
quote:
and is it still fun when a vectra passes you?
show that we have very little in common otherwise, so I'll bow out of this 'debate'.
exactly who cares who passes who once you've quickly got to 100mph? Aren't you like me easing off, looking for the next exit so you can find more bends and acceleration opportunites whilst letting all those wannabe Lotus-owners but Coupe/Saloon drivers re-overtake you so they can show their female companions that they ARE FASTER saying "see he won't get there any quicker" but all the while she's just checking out who you are !!!
>> Edited by Chris-A on Thursday 11th July 17:08
>> Edited by Chris-A on Thursday 11th July 17:14
>> Edited by Chris-A on Thursday 11th July 17:08
>> Edited by Chris-A on Thursday 11th July 17:14
3.2 litre ssi new vectra 0-60 7.0 secs top speed 154mph.
Honda civic Type R 0-60 6.4secs top speed 146mph
Honda S2000 0-60 5.6secs Top speed 142mph
Elise 0-60 5.9secs top speed 118mph
Not exactly low weight fanstastic figures are they. Especially when you compare what the cars above also have in comfort and accessories.
Honda civic Type R 0-60 6.4secs top speed 146mph
Honda S2000 0-60 5.6secs Top speed 142mph
Elise 0-60 5.9secs top speed 118mph
Not exactly low weight fanstastic figures are they. Especially when you compare what the cars above also have in comfort and accessories.
quote:
Oh and in terms of overtaking ability, Autocar tested the Elise S2 to do the 30 to 70 mph dash in 5.7 secs against the new Vectra GSi's claimed 30 to 60 mph in 6.0 secs. God I must be bored!
0.3 seconds is hardly something to brag about when you consider what the Vectra has got weight-wise is it?
As has been said the Elise was supposed to be a back to basics lightweight performance car. Ala caterham and its not.
As I think Chris A is pointing towards, once you are doing over a 100 mph in open top car it gets to the point where its more enjoyable to throw it through the twisty stuff. And if a Vauxhall driver wants to overtake at 118 mph to run out to 154 mph in a Vectra then that is their misfortune! They wont get past an Elise (standard or otherwise) before then!
Oh and Smeagol the Elise will be doing 70 mph after 5.7 secs, the Vectra only 60 mph after its 6.0 seconds! And as the Elise is all about handling (it won the Autocar Best Driver's Car Award back in August 2001, judged by amongst others Peter Wheeler), then I think you may be missing the point.
Can I point out I'm not saying that the Elise is not a good car. In fact you'll find most of the time I argue how good Lotus cars are. However this discussion was about the future of Lotus and whether you agree or not a lightweight sports car shouldn't need people quoting figures to justify it, It should be gobsmakingly good. Eg the westfield, caterham are low-weight fast cars.
I'm really glad that you like your cars but ask yourslef this question in 5 years time if the car hasn't improved from the feedback it gets from its customers would you buy the next car?
The Elise is a fantastic car (as I have said several times already) BUT its underpowered and has been for over 6 years. The danger is that they are losing customers and enthusiatic ones at that. I'm a real Lotus fan but at the moment there isn't a new Lotus that I would buy if I had the money. I'm saying Lotus needs to go back and think about the future. They've stopped the M250, the Esprit is looking long in the tooth, what is Lotus doing apart from making a lightweight car heavier to sell in the USA.
>> Edited by smeagol on Thursday 11th July 18:44
I'm really glad that you like your cars but ask yourslef this question in 5 years time if the car hasn't improved from the feedback it gets from its customers would you buy the next car?
The Elise is a fantastic car (as I have said several times already) BUT its underpowered and has been for over 6 years. The danger is that they are losing customers and enthusiatic ones at that. I'm a real Lotus fan but at the moment there isn't a new Lotus that I would buy if I had the money. I'm saying Lotus needs to go back and think about the future. They've stopped the M250, the Esprit is looking long in the tooth, what is Lotus doing apart from making a lightweight car heavier to sell in the USA.
>> Edited by smeagol on Thursday 11th July 18:44
OK straight line speed is only half the story when it comes down having fun (although it is nice 
). The thing that really bugs me now is the price/performance factor.
The basic Elise when launched in 1996 cost £20500, just think now how good a deal that was! Nothing came close to it performance and price wise so it was a true winner for Lotus.
Lotus at the time couldn't get them out the door quick enough and it became the success that Lotus needed it to be. Good for them.
Now 6 years later look at the basic car £26000 with a pack. Errr... hold on, why has it got more expensive? If they are making more of them and they are selling more where is the extra money going?
High tech engine technology? Nope still the same engine you'd find in a small hatch back.
New Chassis development? Nope, exactly the same chassis no changes there.
Now look at the the top of the range Elise the new 111S. A whole 36bhp extra... Wow!!! Ahem. What does Lotus expect you to pay for this privilege £30,000!! Let's not forget you now pay for a whole 150kg more weight they've put in it as well. Is this in the form of a new high tech weight distribution system, more electronic components to keep the performance high?
Nope, it's sound deadening, air conditioning and cup holders... what the hell are they doing? That's easy, they are selling it as a bloody rep-mobile!!! See why comparing it to a Vectra isn't such a bad thing?
I'm sorry but this new car has gone so far away from the original it should have a different name like the 'Executive' 'Exclusive' or maybe just plain 'Expensive'.
If I were in the market again I just couldn't buy an Elise for that amount of money. It's a good car, when put together correctly, but it's now competing in a class of cars that can easily out perform it and provide a more rounded and satisfying ownership experience than the new Elise ever could. Which again goes back to my original point IT'S JUST NOT WORTH IT!
). The thing that really bugs me now is the price/performance factor. The basic Elise when launched in 1996 cost £20500, just think now how good a deal that was! Nothing came close to it performance and price wise so it was a true winner for Lotus.
Lotus at the time couldn't get them out the door quick enough and it became the success that Lotus needed it to be. Good for them.
Now 6 years later look at the basic car £26000 with a pack. Errr... hold on, why has it got more expensive? If they are making more of them and they are selling more where is the extra money going?
High tech engine technology? Nope still the same engine you'd find in a small hatch back.
New Chassis development? Nope, exactly the same chassis no changes there.
Now look at the the top of the range Elise the new 111S. A whole 36bhp extra... Wow!!! Ahem. What does Lotus expect you to pay for this privilege £30,000!! Let's not forget you now pay for a whole 150kg more weight they've put in it as well. Is this in the form of a new high tech weight distribution system, more electronic components to keep the performance high?
Nope, it's sound deadening, air conditioning and cup holders... what the hell are they doing? That's easy, they are selling it as a bloody rep-mobile!!! See why comparing it to a Vectra isn't such a bad thing?
I'm sorry but this new car has gone so far away from the original it should have a different name like the 'Executive' 'Exclusive' or maybe just plain 'Expensive'.
If I were in the market again I just couldn't buy an Elise for that amount of money. It's a good car, when put together correctly, but it's now competing in a class of cars that can easily out perform it and provide a more rounded and satisfying ownership experience than the new Elise ever could. Which again goes back to my original point IT'S JUST NOT WORTH IT!
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